122 réponses à ce sujet

[FireSarge]

tehmoriz wrote...

when you are in cover, you don't need to sprint
when you are sprinting out in the open, you don't need a button to take cover
when you are in heavy combat, you probably don't need to use/interact with objects

as such, it makes sense to have all three on the same button. reducing needless complexity is a good thing.

i disagree.

if i am in cover and i pick my next cover and i want to sprint to it then go into cover i need different buttons.

as it is set up now if you jump up and go to run you can get stuck on the cover you were trying to leave in the open and get shot.

having different keys means i can get up run to where i want to go and then jump down. now you can accidently bump and box then go into cover on the wrong side out in the oepn being shot at. that doesnt feel clunky to you?

[Matrices1]

Graphics on the PC and 360 are never "the same" unless your PC is old. Even if the exact same graphics assets are used, the resolution makes a huge difference. 360 is 720p, at best. PC can run 1080p or higher. You can also force anti-aliasing at 4x or higher in the PC version. Not sure if there is any in the 360 version.



The spacebar thing is a little annoying but not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. I've played all the major recent TPS and the cover system here is just as good, so there's nothing uniquely bad with ME2's.



Maybe the majority of your problem is clipping. Try updating your graphics drivers, I guess; in 40+ hours of playing I've seen a grand total of one clipping incident.

[USS SULACO]

diskoh wrote...

they sold 2 million in the first week.

but feel free to tell your friends not to buy it. i'm sure it'll make bioware crumble!

I wonder how many used copies there will be in Gamestop next week

[BIG JEEPER]

why the hell would you walk? running is quicker... if I could buy a segway, i would do that

Modifié par BIG JEEPER, 04 février 2010 - 08:05 .

[Caffingdu]

Matrices1 wrote...

Graphics on the PC and 360 are never "the same" unless your PC is old. Even if the exact same graphics assets are used, the resolution makes a huge difference. 360 is 720p, at best. PC can run 1080p or higher. You can also force anti-aliasing at 4x or higher in the PC version. Not sure if there is any in the 360 version.

The spacebar thing is a little annoying but not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. I've played all the major recent TPS and the cover system here is just as good, so there's nothing uniquely bad with ME2's.

Maybe the majority of your problem is clipping. Try updating your graphics drivers, I guess; in 40+ hours of playing I've seen a grand total of one clipping incident.

Yes, resolution will be better on the PC. (by the way, the 360 version of the games runs at 1080P). But the resolution doesn't really matter as much on a TV that has a bigger screen than a monitor and when you're sitting farther away from it. So, besides resolution, graphics are the same. Critics were saying that you won't be able to tell much of a difference between graphics on PC and xbox 360.

[FireSarge]

USS SULACO wrote...

diskoh wrote...

they sold 2 million in the first week.

but feel free to tell your friends not to buy it. i'm sure it'll make bioware crumble!

I wonder how many used copies there will be in Gamestop next week

probably most of the xbox versions. once you play through a few times there is no reason to continue playing and they will move on to the next shooter in a long line of shooter games.


PC people a pretty much stuck. since almost every game you have to register to yourself to use it. so yeah not much resale value for the pc

[markeyp]

Szii wrote...

The story is amazing.
The art, cinematics and visuals are amazing.
The character creation, development and growth is extremely well-done.

So why am I telling people to -NOT- buy ME2?  The UI and control system.

The UI/control is HORRIBLE on the PC. 

Honestly, I don't care if you were "constrained because it had to go to the console world."

It sucks.  Hard.  End of story.

1)  Lara Croft cameras.  Why can I not see around the LEFT side of a box, and I can clip through and shoot through the right edge without being seen?  -SO-many games have done this -so much- better it's amazing to see this game go backwards.










2)  Whomever decided that "'run' and 'take cover' and 'vault'" should all be on the same key-bind needs to be shot.  Twice. 
ex 1: I invis.  Break cover and run...wait...why am I back in cover? My timer's running!
ex 2: I'm sprinting, cover's up ahead...almost....ther....wait, wtf, why am I "taking cover" HERE?  Oh, I ran too close to something, now I'm in bad cover and dead again.
etc...

3)  Remove "take cover."  Entirely.  It's way too contrived.  If I run up to something and run into it's hitbox, I should be "in cover" (crouched if need be.)  Right now I can hit the hitbox and still be shot from an angle.  I "take cover" and it turns me around 180deg and I stop being shot.  Why does turning me around 180deg suddenly make me have better cover?  If I'm crouched behind, say, a desk...why are they not blowing the top of my head off?

When your tactical position is dictated by retarded UI ideosyncracies (I must take cover only in certain positions or I cannot see around my cover re #1) then your UI is "in the way."

When your movement between cover points is dictated by "what am I going to sprint past that's going to screw me over" then your UI is "is in the way."

When you're in cover and the camera clips down close, and you can't move it and you can't see anything... your UI is "in the way."

You can tell which games are "made for the PC" and which are "made for the console."  This was obviously, sadly, made for the console and poorly ported.  The other big giveaway is that you remap a key, but then in-game messages still say "Press [F] to place the monument."  Um, hello, it's been remapped... computer QA please, instead of console QA which cannot remap keys.

You may, or may not change these things.  I would love to play this game in a Fallout3-style at worst, or a CounterStrike-with-peeking style at best.  Change "take cover" to just be "crouch" and let me move around while crouched.  I'm behind a row of planters...I'm not going to stand up to move 4 feet to the right.  C'mon.

ME2 is an amazing game, and phenominal is so many ways but due to the UI/controls issues .... I'm telling people to pass on it.  It's too clunky for anyone with any semblence of FPS gaming background, which is just about everyone I work with and am in contact with.

Note: these are from the perspective of an elevated difficulty level in which you have to "not suck" and a good UI actually matters.



When your tactics on the battlefield are dictated by your in-game user interface and controls ... you have a problem.  UI should be seamless, intuitive and NEVER impede the user regardless of your game or software application.

Thanks.

-Mike/Szii

go cry somewhere else you just suck at the game

Modifié par markeyp, 04 février 2010 - 08:09 .

[USS SULACO]

BIG JEEPER wrote...

why the hell would you walk? running is quicker... if I could buy a segway, i would do that

Running around the normandy? Running around the club? Running everwhere while everyone else is walking? Not being able too walk makes the character look stupid. They run in the most inappropriate situations. This is not Gears of War in which theirs constant combat.

[FireSarge]

markeyp wrote...

Szii wrote...

The story is amazing.
The art, cinematics and visuals are amazing.
The character creation, development and growth is extremely well-done.

So why am I telling people to -NOT- buy ME2?  The UI and control system.

The UI/control is HORRIBLE on the PC. 

Honestly, I don't care if you were "constrained because it had to go to the console world."

It sucks.  Hard.  End of story.

1)  Lara Croft cameras.  Why can I not see around the LEFT side of a box, and I can clip through and shoot through the right edge without being seen?  -SO-many games have done this -so much- better it's amazing to see this game go backwards.










2)  Whomever decided that "'run' and 'take cover' and 'vault'" should all be on the same key-bind needs to be shot.  Twice. 
ex 1: I invis.  Break cover and run...wait...why am I back in cover? My timer's running!
ex 2: I'm sprinting, cover's up ahead...almost....ther....wait, wtf, why am I "taking cover" HERE?  Oh, I ran too close to something, now I'm in bad cover and dead again.
etc...

3)  Remove "take cover."  Entirely.  It's way too contrived.  If I run up to something and run into it's hitbox, I should be "in cover" (crouched if need be.)  Right now I can hit the hitbox and still be shot from an angle.  I "take cover" and it turns me around 180deg and I stop being shot.  Why does turning me around 180deg suddenly make me have better cover?  If I'm crouched behind, say, a desk...why are they not blowing the top of my head off?

When your tactical position is dictated by retarded UI ideosyncracies (I must take cover only in certain positions or I cannot see around my cover re #1) then your UI is "in the way."

When your movement between cover points is dictated by "what am I going to sprint past that's going to screw me over" then your UI is "is in the way."

When you're in cover and the camera clips down close, and you can't move it and you can't see anything... your UI is "in the way."

You can tell which games are "made for the PC" and which are "made for the console."  This was obviously, sadly, made for the console and poorly ported.  The other big giveaway is that you remap a key, but then in-game messages still say "Press [F] to place the monument."  Um, hello, it's been remapped... computer QA please, instead of console QA which cannot remap keys.

You may, or may not change these things.  I would love to play this game in a Fallout3-style at worst, or a CounterStrike-with-peeking style at best.  Change "take cover" to just be "crouch" and let me move around while crouched.  I'm behind a row of planters...I'm not going to stand up to move 4 feet to the right.  C'mon.

ME2 is an amazing game, and phenominal is so many ways but due to the UI/controls issues .... I'm telling people to pass on it.  It's too clunky for anyone with any semblence of FPS gaming background, which is just about everyone I work with and am in contact with.

Note: these are from the perspective of an elevated difficulty level in which you have to "not suck" and a good UI actually matters.



When your tactics on the battlefield are dictated by your in-game user interface and controls ... you have a problem.  UI should be seamless, intuitive and NEVER impede the user regardless of your game or software application.

Thanks.

-Mike/Szii

go cry somewhere else you just suck at the game

go back to your xbox kiddie this thread is not for you.


this is a pc gamer thread so bye bye

[USS SULACO]

FireSarge wrote...

USS SULACO wrote...

diskoh wrote...

they sold 2 million in the first week.

but feel free to tell your friends not to buy it. i'm sure it'll make bioware crumble!

I wonder how many used copies there will be in Gamestop next week

probably most of the xbox versions. once you play through a few times there is no reason to continue playing and they will move on to the next shooter in a long line of shooter games.


PC people a pretty much stuck. since almost every game you have to register to yourself to use it. so yeah not much resale value for the pc

Thats what I don't like! Bioware made ME2 into a Gears of War style shooter, when their already enough shooter out their and coming soon.  I can see using the Gears format during combat situations, but my character runs around all the time, even if their exploring and investigating.

[Dizzy473]

Personally having sprint, cover and interact on one button gives a better flow to combat for me. Yes it took a little while to get used to it but that goes for many control systems in many different games.



I understand that it maybe a problem for others and being able to bind different keys would have been great for them. Its not a bad system for every player, it's a bad system for you and others but not everyone.



I hope they figure a way to patch in keybinds or something for you....as long as I can keep my one button for them all as well.

[haberman13]

I think the real problem here is that console gamers and PC gamers are a different breed.

Console gamers accept inferior games (unknowingly) while us PC gamers are used to a higher standard of graphics/mechanics/controls/etc., I would say we also unknowingly grew used to the standards of PC games (unless you also have a console, in which case you probably play each situationally; i.e. console gaming for when you want to just sit on a couch)  This makes playing a console ported game feel odd and devoid of depth and strategy.

Once you PC game, console games seem silly. ME1 had enough of the PC juice that we overlooked the console components... ME2 removes all of the PC goodness and we are left with a console game that just doesn't feel right.

ME2's story is great however, and so are the cinematics, other than that it's basically a console game.

(yes, PC gamers are a light on the hill :innocent: )

Modifié par haberman13, 04 février 2010 - 08:19 .

[tehmoriz]

FireSarge wrote...

tehmoriz wrote...

when you are in cover, you don't need to sprint
when you are sprinting out in the open, you don't need a button to take cover
when you are in heavy combat, you probably don't need to use/interact with objects

as such, it makes sense to have all three on the same button. reducing needless complexity is a good thing.

i disagree.

if i am in cover and i pick my next cover and i want to sprint to it then go into cover i need different buttons.

as it is set up now if you jump up and go to run you can get stuck on the cover you were trying to leave in the open and get shot.

having different keys means i can get up run to where i want to go and then jump down. now you can accidently bump and box then go into cover on the wrong side out in the oepn being shot at. that doesnt feel clunky to you?

if you take cover on the wrong side of an obstacle in a firefight, that's your fault, not the game's. even if you did take cover on the wrong side, the animation for entering/leaving cover is so quick that you can easily get out of it.

[MBirkhofer]

There are a few of the complaints. I really hope they are address in 3.

A few of them should really never have seen the light of day. This is some pretty common UI/gameplay issues, that I would think are common knowledge among devs by now. Bioware games in general often could just spend a "bit" more time going through Q&A and being fine tuned.

Someone had to have noticed how bad the veins and 1 key for run/cover are.



There was a bit thread on Neogaf a few months prior to ME2 release talking about terrible UIs. MW2's strawberry jelly blood effects go ragged on a ton, for being awful. And the preview of the ME2 veins were shown, and everyone crossed their fingers hoping it would get nixed. Its a shame really.



The single key, run/dive is also clearly a wth. The play control would be so much better with run=shift, cover=f, team skills=space, and e=use.



The full UI itself is a bit meh. I would really like a better hp/shield bar. I don't understand why the minimap isn't up all the time.

[FireSarge]

tehmoriz wrote...

FireSarge wrote...

tehmoriz wrote...

when you are in cover, you don't need to sprint
when you are sprinting out in the open, you don't need a button to take cover
when you are in heavy combat, you probably don't need to use/interact with objects

as such, it makes sense to have all three on the same button. reducing needless complexity is a good thing.

i disagree.

if i am in cover and i pick my next cover and i want to sprint to it then go into cover i need different buttons.

as it is set up now if you jump up and go to run you can get stuck on the cover you were trying to leave in the open and get shot.

having different keys means i can get up run to where i want to go and then jump down. now you can accidently bump and box then go into cover on the wrong side out in the oepn being shot at. that doesnt feel clunky to you?

if you take cover on the wrong side of an obstacle in a firefight, that's your fault, not the game's. even if you did take cover on the wrong side, the animation for entering/leaving cover is so quick that you can easily get out of it.

ok high speed. you know everything.

it doesnt change the fact that i got stuck out in the open because i bumped into something while moving to where i wanted to be.

a 3-5 second sprint from cover to cover you shouldnt take any damage at all. when you get stuck you now have to hide behind somewhere you did not want to be to regenarate your shields just so you can move up to the cover you were trying to get to in the first place.

it doesnt matter if it is a 10 second delay or a a 1 second delay. a delay can get you killed in combat.

[tehmoriz]

FireSarge wrote...

tehmoriz wrote...

FireSarge wrote...

tehmoriz wrote...

when you are in cover, you don't need to sprint
when you are sprinting out in the open, you don't need a button to take cover
when you are in heavy combat, you probably don't need to use/interact with objects

as such, it makes sense to have all three on the same button. reducing needless complexity is a good thing.

i disagree.

if i am in cover and i pick my next cover and i want to sprint to it then go into cover i need different buttons.

as it is set up now if you jump up and go to run you can get stuck on the cover you were trying to leave in the open and get shot.

having different keys means i can get up run to where i want to go and then jump down. now you can accidently bump and box then go into cover on the wrong side out in the oepn being shot at. that doesnt feel clunky to you?

if you take cover on the wrong side of an obstacle in a firefight, that's your fault, not the game's. even if you did take cover on the wrong side, the animation for entering/leaving cover is so quick that you can easily get out of it.

ok high speed. you know everything.

it doesnt change the fact that i got stuck out in the open because i bumped into something while moving to where i wanted to be.

a 3-5 second sprint from cover to cover you shouldnt take any damage at all. when you get stuck you now have to hide behind somewhere you did not want to be to regenarate your shields just so you can move up to the cover you were trying to get to in the first place.

it doesnt matter if it is a 10 second delay or a a 1 second delay. a delay can get you killed in combat.

you got stuck out in the open because you weren't careful, not because of the key binding. even if the buttons are different, you'll still be stuck for a bit if you run into an object. so in the end, it really doesn't matter where each function is bound, since the problem boils down to player error.

[Zoe Dedweth]

I'm sure there's a walk key - what is it ? (On PC)

[chenDawg]

Zoe Dedweth wrote...

I'm sure there's a walk key - what is it ? (On PC)

z,x, or c... I can't remember.
one of those bottom keys.

[Schurge]

Mass Effect II works perfectly on the PC. The OP needs to L2P and STFU.

[Ashton808]

This is why we play on the Xbox 360.

[Kronner]

I have no problems with controls on the PC. The only thing I hate is that big ass pop-up message that appears everytime you do anything, really. And it doesn't go away for like 3 seconds each.

[FireSarge]

Schurge wrote...

Mass Effect II works perfectly on the PC. The OP needs to L2P and STFU.

i got to love people like you. i already beat the game twice. asking for key mapping to have been done better is a legitimate complaint.

sorry i have a mouse with 5 buttons and a keyboard with 50. why its mappeed like i have 16 buttons just shows how lazy they got.


can i play it as is yes. could i be better if it was optimized to my playstyle yes.

[Schurge]

FireSarge wrote...

Schurge wrote...

Mass Effect II works perfectly on the PC. The OP needs to L2P and STFU.

i got to love people like you. i already beat the game twice. asking for key mapping to have been done better is a legitimate complaint.

sorry i have a mouse with 5 buttons and a keyboard with 50. why its mappeed like i have 16 buttons just shows how lazy they got.


can i play it as is yes. could i be better if it was optimized to my playstyle yes.

Its streamlined, blame that on the kiddies not Bioware.

And what the OP said in his/her post wasn't near as reasonable as what you said in your post you made just now (hence the rudeness to him).

EDIT: And I have had zero issues with it, however with PC games things vary from hardware to hardware. I use a standard mouse and a standard keyboard thats at least a decade old.

Modifié par Schurge, 04 février 2010 - 09:29 .

[lessthanjake9]

Why would you say that its a "great" game yet someone shouldnt buy it because of the occasional annoyance of sprinting and accidently getting into cover? That's a very minor issue and no game is perfect. Get over it and realize that it's a good game, even if it has flaws like any other game.

As a sidenote though, is it possible on PC to vault without first taking cover? It IS rather annoying to be trying to run away from something and wanting to vault over something, but first having your character take "cover" while exposed before vaulting. Is there any way to deal with this? Is this an issue of the xbox?

[FireSarge]

Schurge wrote...

FireSarge wrote...

Schurge wrote...

Mass Effect II works perfectly on the PC. The OP needs to L2P and STFU.

i got to love people like you. i already beat the game twice. asking for key mapping to have been done better is a legitimate complaint.

sorry i have a mouse with 5 buttons and a keyboard with 50. why its mappeed like i have 16 buttons just shows how lazy they got.


can i play it as is yes. could i be better if it was optimized to my playstyle yes.

Its streamlined, blame that on the kiddies not Bioware.

And what the OP said in his/her post wasn't near as reasonable as what you said in your post you made just now (hence the rudeness to him).

EDIT: And I have had zero issues with it, however with PC games things vary from hardware to hardware. I use a standard mouse and a standard keyboard thats at least a decade old.

sorry i  didnt mean to sound like an ass but the 360 users that got everyhting they wanted tend to be the little ****s they are.