122 réponses à ce sujet

[Caz Neerg]

FireSarge wrote...

no he is saying when they ported the first one to the PC they optimized it for said PC. this one was developed at the same time and they did not optimize it for PC.

i should be able to switch weapons with a hot key without pressing shift. i should have a different button for go to cover and run. i should be able to bring up my squad or journal without going to a menu.

its the little things

The PC version of ME2 works far better than the port of ME1 did.  Not even a contest.  The ME1 port was sloppy, and barely functional until there were a couple of patches.

[Taiko Roshi]

USS SULACO wrote...

I hate it because my character runs around all the time. She has no walk function like in ME1. and she has a limp that no one at Bioware can logically explain. If i'm in the club, on the normandy, exploring the levels. I DON'T NEED TOO RUN AROUND LIKE I'M PLAYING GEARS OF WAR. They should have just let the controlls stay the same.

A minor problem I have when they run is that the character has a floppy head and looks like he/she is staring at the ground whilst running. It is really weird to watch your character run in this game, as they look like a zombie.

[Szii]

kelsjet wrote...

Szii wrote...
When your tactical position is dictated by retarded UI ideosyncracies (I must take cover only in certain positions or I cannot see around my cover re #1) then your UI is "in the way."

When your movement between cover points is dictated by "what am I going to sprint past that's going to screw me over" then your UI is "is in the way."

When you're in cover and the camera clips down close, and you can't move it and you can't see anything... your UI is "in the way."

I am 100% certain that you actually have no idea what "UI" actually is.
What you are describing actually has absolutely nothing to do with the UI.

The UI is the non-gameworld, 2D layer on top of the 3D world in which you play.

Incorrect. UI is the "User Interface."  The graphical 2D layered HUD is one aspect of the UI.  The camera is part of the UI, the visual component.  The keyboard is the tactile input component.

-Szii

[Justin2k]

Szii wrote...

Honestly, I don't care if you were "constrained because it had to go to the console world."

Not a bashing post, but Mass Effect series was made and designed for the console and it has been ported to the PC. 

I totally understand your feelings though.  When I played DA:O on the Xbox i was happy with it until I saw PC screenshots and would have killed to have the pause system and keybindings.  Its just one of those things.

But ME is definetly a console game on a PC so thats why it plays like a console game I guess.  Just one of those things, don't let it spoil your enjoyment of the game.

[AtreiyaN7]

I'm on a PC, and it's not that bad. Yes, I want hotkeys and F# keys back, but it's not so odious that it's really going to interfere with gameplay. As a compromise, I've opted to choose my shotgun/pistol setup before starting a mission and then use the X key to flip back (switching to SMG/heavy weapon as necessary on my Vanguard - edited to change "shotgun" - oops, well, I am a Vanguard - guess I have shotguns on my mind a lot).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 04 février 2010 - 11:01 .

[durasteel]

I have (only) the PC version of both games.  At first, I was not too fond of the new control scheme. Once I got used to it, I started to like it a lot better than the original.

Maybe you won't ever like it, but I do.

Modifié par durasteel, 04 février 2010 - 10:49 .

[Happykola]

Not being able to map weapon keys and having vault sprint and run on the same key are all legitimate complaints but they're far too minor to make the game shelvable. As for the camera i can only think of one point in my entire insanity playthrough where the camera screwed me and i just moved to a different piece of cover.



Of course the cover system is contrived, here you just have to sacrifice a little realism (shepard being completely exposed and enemies blasting away at the cover next to him/her) for the sake of the gameplay mechanic which is at the core of the mass effect series.

[OrionUnas]

I agree on some points. I hate running, playing on the 360, and i come into contact with the bounding box of cover, and I cover... INFRONT of my enemy. WTF... i'm running away from them, not lining up to a wall to be fired upon.



This doesn't happen often, but it is annoying.



I also hate that when I am in cover, they can clip through the object and still hit me. Doesn't happen often, but still annoying.



I LOVE the system for this game, I love GoW style games, i'm not saying abolish it, or get rid of it, just fix the code a little

[Szii]

Joel on Software:
Controlling Your Environment Makes You Happy

http://www.joelonsof...0000000057.html

"To make people happy, you have to let them feel like they are in control of their environment. To do this, you need to correctly interpret their actions. The interface needs to behave in the way they are expecting it to behave.

Thus, the cardinal axiom of all user interface design:
A user interface is well-designed when the program behaves exactly how the user thought it would."

Do note Joel's background; he's not just "some flunky."

-Szii

Modifié par Szii, 05 février 2010 - 12:59 .

[Permutation]

I'm in agreement with the OP for the most part. I play on PC as well, and clinging to every cover-able surface in your path is rather annoying when you're just trying to sprint from point a to b. I have to press the spacebar repeatedly to free Shepard from these deathtraps sometimes. Feels WAY too much like Gears in that regard, and that was definitely not one of the game's stongpoints tactically.

[Lavans6879]

I'm a hardcore FPS player ( http://steamcommunit...961833319/games ) and to be perfectly honest, I love the controls in ME2. The only thing I wish they did differently was added a crouch button. If you find the UI and/or controls to be cumbersome or sloppy, then that's your own biased opinions formulated by being picky. With that said, there's nothing that needs fixing other than your own perspectives.

Modifié par Lavans6879, 05 février 2010 - 01:50 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

In any case there really isn't any excuse for not having all the keys mappable in a PC game.. none.

[Mr.Skar]

So wait, you mean the PC gamers don't get the superior version of the game this time? Guess I was right to stick with my 360.

EDIT: Superior as of a couple patches according to my buddy at least. Also, what's up with all this ripping on Gears? If ME2 had borrowed a bit more, we would have a great cover system and vehicles to use. Say what you want about the story and the cartoonish characters, but the gameplay is pretty slick.

Modifié par Mr.Skar, 05 février 2010 - 03:23 .

[Lavans6879]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

In any case there really isn't any excuse for not having all the keys mappable in a PC game.. none.

I agree with you completely. There is a dilemma though, which is that neither of us would be agreeing if this were in reference to the console version

[Caffingdu]

haberman13 wrote...

I think the real problem here is that console gamers and PC gamers are a different breed.

Console gamers accept inferior games (unknowingly) while us PC gamers are used to a higher standard of graphics/mechanics/controls/etc., I would say we also unknowingly grew used to the standards of PC games (unless you also have a console, in which case you probably play each situationally; i.e. console gaming for when you want to just sit on a couch)  This makes playing a console ported game feel odd and devoid of depth and strategy.

Once you PC game, console games seem silly. ME1 had enough of the PC juice that we overlooked the console components... ME2 removes all of the PC goodness and we are left with a console game that just doesn't feel right.

ME2's story is great however, and so are the cinematics, other than that it's basically a console game.

(yes, PC gamers are a light on the hill :innocent: )

why are PC gamers so arrogant?? They all talk about how not only are games on the PC superior, but also PC gamers are superior. This guy who I quote above me talks about how console gamers accept inferior games. Other PC gamers (many from this thread) call console gamers "kiddies".

I'm sorry that I can't afford a high-end PC. I'm sorry that I enjoy ME 2, and many other games, on the xbox 360. I'm sorry that I'm just not as good as you all mighty, all knowin, and all wise PC gamers.

[Phalzyr]

Caffingdu wrote...

I'm sorry that I can't afford a high-end PC. I'm sorry that I enjoy ME 2, and many other games, on the xbox 360. I'm sorry that I'm just not as good as you all mighty, all knowin, and all wise PC gamers.

Appology accepted, and btw a PC can cost less than console + extra cost of each game. long term wise. It not your fault for owning a console it is just how game makers see the market. "Young kids own consoles (bought by parents) so lets dumb down games that we release there." - devs.  It used to be true but not so much any more but they haven't changed their target plans. Though not all games are effected the majority are.

ME1 didn't feel like a console game to me, or a shooter. It felt like an RPG that you did shooting in. ME2 I haven't played enough yet but reviews make it sound like it feels both like a shooter and a console game. Two negatives IMO as I don't play shooters much. What little I played ME2 (About ten minutes) annoyed me, but I'm hoping I'll get used to the alterations (dumbing down and more FPS). What really annoyed me though had nothing to do with game play but functionality bugs... Though I guess first time going into hacking not being able to select anything was annoying also... remapped key confusion...

Moral of the story: Don't take consoles are for kiddies as an attack on you but an attack on how game makers think of the market. It is a simple fact that console games are made different with that in mind even though it is less true nowadays than in the past. 

Modifié par Phalzyr, 05 février 2010 - 02:14 .

[Justin2k]

It really shouldn't come down to arguing between 360 owners, PC owners. I play on an xbox because my pc isn't good enough, not because I'm a child.

I would have killed to play DA:O on the PC. Although I'm glad I play ME on the Xbox.

Reason? ME is an XBOX 360 game that has been ported to a PC version. DA:O was a PC game ported to the XBOX 360.

Ports are usually inferior in some way because they weren't designed for them. They could have spent more time on the PC port but this is not the fault of the console users. If the game was not designed for the Xbox360 it may have never been made for the PC as far as we know.  Essentially PC users are lucky to be able to play this game.

Modifié par Justin2k, 05 février 2010 - 02:54 .

[Sennken]

well, completed game 3 times and didn't expirience any problems with controls.

[Phalzyr]

When you press sprint you should sprint not stand still in the middle of room while it is thinking if something is around to hide behind and if you menat that instead... I only just got to the first place you have to use it and it would run I just walked into flame burning and knocking me back it then allowed me to run now that I was in the "Sweet" spot to do so... It would be nice to have two keys rather than three. I can see use/cover/vault be one key but when I want to run it shouldn't get confused and me suffer... Maybe it gets better later in game will find out this weekend.



Justin2k: Anyone that treat console gamers as kids (in general) is part of the problem, ignorant fools. It is the devs that still see the market as such that is the main issue. Some are over it most aren't. It all about sales regardless, if they can sale 50% more by making it kid freindly... Especially EA is really bad about tight reigns and killing games that could of been great. I normally don't buy from EA, but bioware is the best ever so...

[Caffingdu]

Phalzyr wrote...

Caffingdu wrote...

I'm sorry that I can't afford a high-end PC. I'm sorry that I enjoy ME 2, and many other games, on the xbox 360. I'm sorry that I'm just not as good as you all mighty, all knowin, and all wise PC gamers.

Appology accepted, and btw a PC can cost less than console + extra cost of each game. long term wise. It not your fault for owning a console it is just how game makers see the market. "Young kids own consoles (bought by parents) so lets dumb down games that we release there." - devs.  It used to be true but not so much any more but they haven't changed their target plans. Though not all games are effected the majority are.

ME1 didn't feel like a console game to me, or a shooter. It felt like an RPG that you did shooting in. ME2 I haven't played enough yet but reviews make it sound like it feels both like a shooter and a console game. Two negatives IMO as I don't play shooters much. What little I played ME2 (About ten minutes) annoyed me, but I'm hoping I'll get used to the alterations (dumbing down and more FPS). What really annoyed me though had nothing to do with game play but functionality bugs... Though I guess first time going into hacking not being able to select anything was annoying also... remapped key confusion...

Moral of the story: Don't take consoles are for kiddies as an attack on you but an attack on how game makers think of the market. It is a simple fact that console games are made different with that in mind even though it is less true nowadays than in the past. 

well, no, I don't think that a PC would cost less than a console, with the constant upgrading that you'd have to do to make sure that it's not out-dated. Also, I do not feel that console games are "dumbed-down". There are some games that, I think, just play better on a console. And there are also some games that play much better on a PC. For example, I play DA: O on my friend's PC. That is a game made for the PC, and meant to be played on the PC. I don't think that I would enjoy the game as much if I played the game on a console. RTS's are another example of games that work much better on PCs. However many games, like ME, I think play better on a console. I like the feel of a controller much better than a keyboard for many games. A keyboard has too many keys, and it's hard for me to find the right key to press. It just doesn't feel very comfortable for me, personally. Plus, of course, there's the couch factor. So I do not think that it has to do with PC games being superior or console games being superior. I think that it just has to do with personal preferences and the type of game being played.

And I don't think that just because ME 2 feels more like a shooter means that it was "dumbed down." It is still a role playing game in that you are still playing a ROLE. An RPG doesn't have to have that standard D&D system with turn-based attacks and dungeon crawling. And, I think that if you are one of those "hardcore" RPG fans that believe that a game actually does have to have the D&D system in order to be considered an RPG, then ME 1 wasn't the game for you either. And there were just as many "RPG elements" that were added to the game as there was taken away. For example, the upgrading of weapons and armor is more in-depth, the economy is more in depth with the scanning of metals and all that you can buy now with credits. And you can customize your armor. The only real "RPG element" that was taken out was that it plays more like a shooter in that if you put your retical on an enemy, then that's where the bullets will go. I think that that is a good improvement. It doesn't work well when you have shooting like you did in ME 1, and you put your retical on an enemy and fire, and you don't hit the enemy because your accuracy wasn't upgraded. As lead designer of ME 2 put it, that's actually "counter-intuitive". So I think that the improvemenets that they made over the game made sense.

[medlish]

The controls are GOOD.



I only have a PC at home and played since I was a child. I started FPS with Doom and then with everything that followed eventually also started with RPGs.

Lately I've played more and more console ports and some sucked major ass but the last ones I played were pretty decent including ME2.

I don't know what your issues are. I think the cover systems are OK. Sure you just crouched in the traditional games but I think it's an evolutionary element.

The only thing I don't really like about the PC controls of ME2 is that you can't bind weapons.

[CubemonkeyNYC]

Szii wrote...

The story is amazing.
The art, cinematics and visuals are amazing.
The character creation, development and growth is extremely well-done.

So why am I telling people to -NOT- buy ME2?  The UI and control system.

The UI/control is HORRIBLE on the PC. 

Honestly, I don't care if you were "constrained because it had to go to the console world."

It sucks.  Hard.  End of story.

1)  Lara Croft cameras.  Why can I not see around the LEFT side of a box, and I can clip through and shoot through the right edge without being seen?  -SO-many games have done this -so much- better it's amazing to see this game go backwards.

2)  Whomever decided that "'run' and 'take cover' and 'vault'" should all be on the same key-bind needs to be shot.  Twice. 
ex 1: I invis.  Break cover and run...wait...why am I back in cover? My timer's running!
ex 2: I'm sprinting, cover's up ahead...almost....ther....wait, wtf, why am I "taking cover" HERE?  Oh, I ran too close to something, now I'm in bad cover and dead again.
etc...

3)  Remove "take cover."  Entirely.  It's way too contrived.  If I run up to something and run into it's hitbox, I should be "in cover" (crouched if need be.)  Right now I can hit the hitbox and still be shot from an angle.  I "take cover" and it turns me around 180deg and I stop being shot.  Why does turning me around 180deg suddenly make me have better cover?  If I'm crouched behind, say, a desk...why are they not blowing the top of my head off?

When your tactical position is dictated by retarded UI ideosyncracies (I must take cover only in certain positions or I cannot see around my cover re #1) then your UI is "in the way."

When your movement between cover points is dictated by "what am I going to sprint past that's going to screw me over" then your UI is "is in the way."

When you're in cover and the camera clips down close, and you can't move it and you can't see anything... your UI is "in the way."

You can tell which games are "made for the PC" and which are "made for the console."  This was obviously, sadly, made for the console and poorly ported.  The other big giveaway is that you remap a key, but then in-game messages still say "Press [F] to place the monument."  Um, hello, it's been remapped... computer QA please, instead of console QA which cannot remap keys.

You may, or may not change these things.  I would love to play this game in a Fallout3-style at worst, or a CounterStrike-with-peeking style at best.  Change "take cover" to just be "crouch" and let me move around while crouched.  I'm behind a row of planters...I'm not going to stand up to move 4 feet to the right.  C'mon.

ME2 is an amazing game, and phenominal is so many ways but due to the UI/controls issues .... I'm telling people to pass on it.  It's too clunky for anyone with any semblence of FPS gaming background, which is just about everyone I work with and am in contact with.

Note: these are from the perspective of an elevated difficulty level in which you have to "not suck" and a good UI actually matters.



When your tactics on the battlefield are dictated by your in-game user interface and controls ... you have a problem.  UI should be seamless, intuitive and NEVER impede the user regardless of your game or software application.

Thanks.

-Mike/Szii

I played and beat ME1 on PC and 360. Played ME2 on PC. Had no problems with controls. Ever.

My advice to you: get better.

[ClosingRacer]

lol you can't tell people what to do with there money ...if i want to "waste" my 70 bucks for a game i will do so which i did so by buying my mass effect 2 collectors box which btw is awesome...sorry but if anything should get "shelved" is this thread....

[Koross]

I gotta say that I am exclusively a PC gamer. Sure I played some games on the console before but most of them were fighting games and that genre makes more sense to play on the console compared to the PC.



The problems you listed in the OP regarding Mass Effect 2? Easily ignored. Why? Simply, this game is that awesome. Seriously. At first the camera angle was a bit weird but I got used to it in the first couple of minutes. The other stuff, you get used to it after some time and then you start wondering, "Why was I having such a problem with this last time?!"



I always thought that PC gamers were the smarter gamer of the lot, compared to console gamers. Maybe I am biased but seriously, PC gamers have to be knowledgeable about hardware and software to get their PCs to work in an optimum condition. In other words, PC gamers should be able to handle any situations and make it work.



So. OP, seriously, play the game, give it a chance because the game is a whole lot more than just the problems you listed. Stop griping and enjoy the game for its story and narrative. Since you have bought it anyway, why not just enjoy it?