1679 réponses à ce sujet

[Nimander]

Daeion wrote...
I think he doesn't tell you that until after Horizon, I think when you ask about your former team he says something about not being able to find her or knowing where she is?  I'll have to pay more attention, if there is a next time.

Nope.  Just played that part.  He doesn't know where Garrus is.  He says right out Liara's on Illium.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

CalamityRanger wrote...
Yeah but really it's up to interpretation. It's a bit crappy that the line is said no matter what, but hey, if that's the best we can get for now then at least feel good about it in the context that you want it to be taken in. It made me feel better, and as the player I think that's what is important.

Well, I'm glad it amde you feel better.

I simply am not satisfied with having to specifically and actively choose to interpret something a certain way in order to find it reassuring.

Do Kai/Ash fans have to assume about their relationship status? Not really. They both send you emails saying how they feel (even if they are unsure about some things) and Shepard can tell Kelly how she/he feels about Kaidan and Ashley.

I can't tell anyone how I feel about Liara, and Liara doesn't tell anyone how she feels about the relationship's status. It's not good enough, and if BioWare thinks they did well with Liara romance carry-over, they're dead wrong.

[jlb524]

lavosslayer wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I don't think so.  TIM just says she's working for the Shadow Broker, as far as I can remember.   But I could be remembering wrong.

He actually says both...

OK, then I agree with everyone.  Why couldn't Shep sneak over to Illium earlier?

[bjdbwea]

General Stubbs wrote...

If it wasn't for the kiss I would think the relationship was completely over. At least it provides some glimmer of hope.

Don't forget the picture on your desk. That was really nice at least, especially when Shepard looks at it right before the final mission. Short scene, but impressive. So BioWare does allow him to care still. Yet he never ever during his visits to the Asari planet thinks about saying anything to Liara? Sorry, BioWare, MY Shepard would. He just would, whatever the answer. And I thought this was about playing our PC.

[Daeion]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

There is no Canon Shepard, there is a Default Shepard for advertisement purposes.

BW has a canon shep and how things would play out in the universe but they allow us to manipulate that.

No, there is no canon Shep. If you want to talk about BioWare's advertising icon, that's all he is.

If you insist that the establishment of a story for new players is "canon", then BioWare has two separate canons, which can not happen.

There is no canon. There are merely default options.

BW has a canon that they allow us to manipulate,   Regardless of how you play out ME, you get the same end result.  Regardless of if you die in ME2, there will be a shepard for you to play in ME3 who defeated the collectors.  So yes, there is a canon, it's just not a strict as say star wars because BW lets us manipulate some of the deatils. 

Shep will always:
go to Eden Prime,
interact with the beacon,
become a specter,
kill benezia,
destroy sarens base on Virmire,
defy the council and the alliance by going to Illos,
get back to the citadel to save it and kill Sarren
destroy sovereign
be killed 1 month after the battle by the collectors
liara will retreive the body from the shadow broker
cerberus will spend 2 years bringing shep back
and you get the picture

If there are rails its canon.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Daeion wrote...
If there are rails its canon.

Yeah, whatever.

If that's all you meant then your argument is pretty meaningless. If you boil it down that far then everything has "canon".

Mass Effect does not have a specific canon. I think you know that's what everyone meant.

[Daeion]

CalamityRanger wrote...

I was very split on the experience at first, til I realized how to properly read what happened. I spent the beginning of the game worrying as all hell that BioWare truly dropped the ball and made Liara go back on the bond you form with her in ME1. I believe there's dialogue with her in 1 regarding the bonds the Asari make, where some choose to never take another mate if they bond with a race with a lesser lifespan, and that mate dies. I really took that to heart, and considering the fact that Sheppie dies right in the beginning of 2, I was so worried that they would brush off our ME1 LIs in order to give us new ones in 2. I went to Illium as soon as the option became available and I damn well wanted to know if BioWare was going to put me in a really bad mood with not honoring the bond made in 1. My heart of course melted when you get told that Liara paid all your fees and that you can basically report right to her.

Then of course I got very mixed feelings after rushing up to her office. I couldn't tell if it was a hug mixed with a confused face nuzzle between her and my Sheppie, or if it was BW shying away from showing a F/F kiss again (which hasn't been done since Jade Empire so I thought "Hey, what the hell is this?"). I thought about it and in a way Liara kind of looks around the room during that little show of "affection", so perhaps she holds off on properly kissing Sheppie for the fact that other people are present who do not know them or their past. The dialogue initially also bothered me a fair bit. It's already been said that there's no dialogue options that are geared to us who romanced Liara, and the fact that she keeps saying "friend" made my worries a bit more strong ("I'm not your friend, I'm your bondmate! :'(" ) She just seemed distant and it just made things worse that she was getting so pissy at the Shadow Broker for killing her friend. That didn't leave things feeling nice in my head.

That being said, I played her game and did the quests, I initially messed up on the second half by choosing the wrong person as the Observer, and likewise skipped the easily skippable line of dialogue that makes it all better. When that happened I was left very torn and frustrated, feeling that nothing was explained and that the relation my Sheppie had to Liara was being brushed aside. I decided to redo the Observer quest and this time found all of the pieces of information, thus getting the proper ending. I also chose the dialogue option to get to the bottom of the hatred towards the Shadow Broker, and all of a sudden it all became clear. Yes Liara is different, yes she's a bit distant and very focused on her goal, but the reason for all of this? Revenge against someone who very much wronged her and her mate. She made herself harder in order to right the wrong that was done to the person she loves and really, I can't fault her for that. My Sheppie is not taking a love interest in 2, because BioWare infact did not brush off the bond formed in 1, and that makes me incredibly happy.

TL;DR It took me til getting that dialogue option that most people miss to know that Liara still very much loves my Sheppie, and that the bond they made is still very much alive, unlike how the Shadow Broker will be... Here's hoping it all pays off in 3!

If I'm remembering the dialogue properly, she actually says she needs to get back at the shadow broker for what he did to her friend, not what he did to you.

[Sharn01]

No, Canon means that there is a way the game is supposed to be played, and that anything out side of that is only for your benefit, but will have no effect on the Mass Effect universe.



An example would be The Force Unleashed for star war's. Aside from the fact it has far less flexibility then ME, the canon of the game is that the apprentice goes to the light side, sacraficing himself to save the people who will start the rebellion in the actual canon star wars universe. The dark side of the game is just for fun but has no bearing on any future released material.



All material released by Bioware that is canon to the Mass Effect universe does not specify who Shepard is or make use of the personal decision's made by Shepard, because there is no canon Shepard.

[Eumerin]

Daeion wrote...

If I'm remembering the dialogue properly, she actually says she needs to get back at the shadow broker for what he did to her friend, not what he did to you.

That's what she tells you initially, when she's still hiding facts from you.  Once she 'fesses up, she modifies that to revenge both for you and for her missing friend.

[Daeion]

General Stubbs wrote...

Daeion wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

You don't know Liara is on Illium until you get there, though.

But she knows you're alive. It's odd she didn't try to contact you.

I agree, she has sources, even some hired muscle damnit, she can't contact me but freaking Anderson can?

Yeah, I guess Anderson is secretly the SB.
Thats how he knew so much about her. I could always see it in his eyes...
Hasn't she heard of Email? if random escaped prisoner from purgatory can email you, why can't she?

Maybe that darn fangled technology is just too much for her

[EatinMcRib]

Daeion wrote...

If I'm remembering the dialogue properly, she actually says she needs to get back at the shadow broker for what he did to her friend, not what he did to you.

Damn skippy. She's playing you like a ****. Her "bond" with you died when you did, and then made a better more lasting one with her "friend"

That's what the pessimist in me says, anyway. The optimist says BW just made a colossal oversight. I didn't even romance Liara, but I'd imagine this would be a major kick in the balls if I did. It's that bad.

"Oh hi Shep. It's great you're back from the mother****ing dead and all, but can you hack some **** and kill someone for me? Thxbai..."

*Godfather style pity/death kiss*

Seriously, compare that with what little Kaidan/Ashley gives you:

"OMG you're alive! I ****ing love you but hate you for assosiating with Cerberus!"
"P.S. I realize I just went full retard back on Horizon. I'm totally going to hook up with you again sometime later."

Modifié par EatinMcRib, 06 février 2010 - 01:00 .

[Urmar]

Still had to wonder about the "Liara had Shep's love-baby" possibility; could explain some things. Pure speculation, but fun to think about.

[Mox Ruuga]

The whole thing with her having become a top information broker in less than two years is so hackneyed. A one powerful enough to have the frigging Shadow Broker worried, no less. Did Bioware think that a scientist and Prothean archeologist wasn't cool enough of a profession for her any longer? Where did those extensive contacts of her's in ME2 materialize? In less than two years? This is the young maiden asari who spent most of her youth enjoying her solitude on remote dig sites. She liked being by herself, and wasn't used to dealing with people.

It's just... bad plotting and bad writing. Throughout. The signs were already visible in the comic. They should change the writer for Liara in ME3. It might be the last chance the character gets. I know Drew probably won't be returning, but just... someone else. Please.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

I'm pretty sure the SB is steeped in illegal activities. Barla Von is who you're thinking of in ME1. Barla Von doesn't do anything illegal, he just manipulates loopholes in banking laws and whatnot.



As for Liara, well, the fact that she helped take down Saren would definitely boost her reputation. I don't think it's a HUGE stretch to believe she has become good at what she does, especially if she keeps her stuff focused on Illium. The broker is galaxy-wide. Liara hasn't quite reached the big-leagues yet, but she is well-respected and talented on Illium.

[Daeion]

General Stubbs wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

General Stubbs wrote...

If it wasn't for the kiss I would think the relationship was completely over. At least it provides some glimmer of hope.

Don't forget the picture on your desk. That was really nice at least, especially when Shepard looks at it right before the final mission. Short scene, but impressive. So BioWare does allow him to care still. Yet he never ever during his visits to the Asari planet thinks about saying anything to Liara? Sorry, BioWare, MY Shepard would. He just would, whatever the answer. And I thought this was about playing our PC.

Ah yes, I forgot about the picture for a moment.
That was a nice scene at the end having Shepard stare at Liara right before going on a suicide mission.
I have to say, shouldn't Liara care in some way that Shepard could very well be dead for good trying to stop the collectors?
There are FTL communications on the ship, why doesn't she tell Shepard I love you right before him/her leaves to possibly go to their death?

Because BioWare would need to care.

[Eumerin]

General Stubbs wrote...

Yeah, I was probably thinking of Barla von.
It still seems strange to go from saving the galaxy to threatening to flay someone alive.
Even though she wants to take down the SB, why doesn't she seem to have any morals anymore?
That is exactly right about Bioware not caring. Whoever wrote the ME2 story for Liara just didn't give a crap.

I think the point of the threat scene was that she wasn't very good at it.  She was forced to "borrow" her mother's threat instead of coming up with one of her own.

[Justin2k]

I really just didn't like Liara at all and thought Samara and the other Asari were both a lot more interesting.



I very much hope they do not spend a playable character spot on her in ME3 although I feel they might.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

General Stubbs wrote...

Yeah, I was probably thinking of Barla von.
It still seems strange to go from saving the galaxy to threatening to flay someone alive.
Even though she wants to take down the SB, why doesn't she seem to have any morals anymore?
That is exactly right about Bioware not caring. Whoever wrote the ME2 story for Liara just didn't give a crap.

The guy was refusing to pay her because he didn't like the information. She was just playing the game, using threats. She wouldn't get very far if she nicey-nicey to people refusing to pay her for her information. We don't know how many people she has killed, if any.

[Nimander]

I'll admit that I wasn't happy with the situation with Liara. It doesn't fill me with glee and hope for ME3.



However, what is really worrying me is her portrayal in the comics, and whether that's going to become canon. I got the impression there was something more in her interaction with the Drell as well, and I really, really will be annoyed if it turns out she and the Drell were a pair.



If not ... I can accept that they screwed up with the focus in ME2. But if so? That will pretty much guarantee I won't ever use Liara as a LI again. My -hope- is one of two options: One, she is pretending to not know the guy worked for the SB in order to lull the listeners, and she was using his history to backtrack the SB. Two, that he was a brother-ish character to her.

[jlb524]

General Stubbs wrote...

Yeah, it's probably me overreacting, lol.
I think she did kill her assistant though.

She most definitely killed her assistant.  She had to.  'The Observer' was a little too close and knew too much.