1679 réponses à ce sujet

[Mox Ruuga]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

They don't want you to stay loyal??? lol

Very likely they didn't. In interviews close to the release, they talked how most people would end up "cheating" no matter what, since the new ME2 LIs are so compelling. What they didn't tell, was that they had stacked the deck by turning Liara into a mockery of her former self, and given Kaidan and Ash very brief, angry and unfulfilling cameos.

They made sure you only lose content during a playthrough if you stay loyal. With Liara, you gain nothing. Not one thing. With Kaidan and Ash you get few more dialogues with Joker and Kelly, and that email.

There's also supposed to be some tracking going on, about how many people end up cheating, and that the results would be "interesting". Will these "results" be used to back up some design and writing decisions down the line, I know not. But I wouldn't be surprised. Ah well, they won't be able to cram Tali down my throat in ME3, no matter what the "results" say. Dead quarian is dead.

[AndroLeonidas]

jojon2se wrote...

Well, I'm sure they have gone out of their way to tempt you. It's easy to be the good guy when the whole world is cheering you on - in hardships true character and loyalty is tested.

Well dang it... I'm human! I still loved her going in and she crapped on me! lol!

Like I said... one word would have sealed it for me. One word is all it would have taken to remain loyal.
(It was infinitely hard to remain loyal on my second playthrough but I did. Man I hope it was worth it in ME3.)

[Tooneyman]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...

They don't want you to stay loyal??? lol

Very likely they didn't. In interviews close to the release, they talked how most people would end up "cheating" no matter what, since the new ME2 LIs are so compelling. What they didn't tell, was that they had stacked the deck by turning Liara into a mockery of her former self, and given Kaidan and Ash very brief, angry and unfulfilling cameos.

They made sure you only lose content during a playthrough if you stay loyal. With Liara, you gain nothing. Not one thing. With Kaidan and Ash you get few more dialogues with Joker and Kelly, and that email.

There's also supposed to be some tracking going on, about how many people end up cheating, and that the results would be "interesting". Will these "results" be used to back up some design and writing decisions down the line, I know not. But I wouldn't be surprised. Ah well, they won't be able to cram Tali down my throat in ME3, no matter what the "results" say. Dead quarian is dead.

Shes still going to be their you volus lover! I don't care in my game quarian lived. Its on volus! Lived quarian lived, Oh yeah! lmao!

[Nozybidaj]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

jojon2se wrote...

...which is probably the very point.

They don't want you to stay loyal??? lol

No they don't actually.  That was the entire point of writing them out of the story.

[Nozybidaj]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...

They don't want you to stay loyal??? lol

Very likely they didn't. In interviews close to the release, they talked how most people would end up "cheating" no matter what, since the new ME2 LIs are so compelling. What they didn't tell, was that they had stacked the deck by turning Liara into a mockery of her former self, and given Kaidan and Ash very brief, angry and unfulfilling cameos.

They made sure you only lose content during a playthrough if you stay loyal. With Liara, you gain nothing. Not one thing. With Kaidan and Ash you get few more dialogues with Joker and Kelly, and that email.

There's also supposed to be some tracking going on, about how many people end up cheating, and that the results would be "interesting". Will these "results" be used to back up some design and writing decisions down the line, I know not. But I wouldn't be surprised. Ah well, they won't be able to cram Tali down my throat in ME3, no matter what the "results" say. Dead quarian is dead.

Most likely it will be used as "validation" that removing the ME1 cast was the "right thing to do" and keep them from having larger roles in ME3 so they can focus on the ME2 cast.  That is what my pessimistic side says.

[jlb524]

Nozybidaj wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...

jojon2se wrote...

...which is probably the very point.

They don't want you to stay loyal??? lol

No they don't actually.  That was the entire point of writing them out of the story.

Exactly.  If Liara was around, who would want those other losers?

[KujiMuji]

Screw Liara, go jump on Miranda or Tali instead.



Maybe Kelly as well.

[Nozybidaj]

jlb524 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...

jojon2se wrote...

...which is probably the very point.

They don't want you to stay loyal??? lol

No they don't actually.  That was the entire point of writing them out of the story.

Exactly.  If Liara was around, who would want those other losers?

A lot would have probably remained faithful that didn't from the looks of this thread.  I'm sure the devs see Liara's complete mischaracterization as a big "win" for them based on that alone.

[Mox Ruuga]

I like Miranda.

Tali can go off and die alone.

Oh wait, she did! And will do in many future playthroughs... See, Bioware isn't always evil, when they give us opportunities like this!

Here's to no more Tali in my Mass Effect, thanks to the suicide mission!

[jojon2se]

Nozybidaj wrote...
A lot would have probably remained faithful that didn't from the looks of this thread.  I'm sure the devs see Liara's complete mischaracterization as a big "win" for them based on that alone.

Now we're just waiting for BW to drop the bomb on us, in ME3 by having Liara really having turned every bit as psychotic and murderous as she comes across in ME2 - that will teach us a thing or two about committing criminal acts just because we trust someone we used to like, hehe.

[Daeion]

CheesesackIII wrote...

The way I see it, the actual objective of the encounter was to make Liara less appealing and encourage you to pursue other options.
Bioware has already said that you will be rewarded for staying true to your ME 1 love interest in ME 3. There's no point in a reward if you don't have to work or do something hard to get it. The entire game is geared towards encouraging you to cheat.
Taking Liara as an example, let's look at it more closely. Chances are, if you romanced her in the first game, you're attracted to the shy, bookish, awkward type and/or aliens. In ME 2, they give you Tali who has kind of become what Liara was in the first. She's shy and sweet yet still fiesty and corageous and she's an alien. It's quite a safe bet to say people who were attracted to Liara in ME 1 will be attracted to Tal in ME 2 (obviously this isn't true of everyone).
Thus, since you've got Tali with you as a squadmate and you can pursue a romance with her, lots of people would abviously choose that over the cold, emotionless reception you get from Liara. In that way Bioware, being a bunch of evil dicks, nudge you towards the cheating option.
I completely agree that the way they handled ME 1 LIs, especially Liara, was poor. It almost looks like they only included these token Kameo's because they promised that they would, and because people need some reminder that the person they were with in the first game it still alive and at least vaugely interested. Let's face it, none of the three reunions are important to the story. They could just as easily have said that Kaiden/Ask was taken by the Collectors and thus is unavailable until the very end when you have a chance to free them. Similarly, it didn't need to be Liara that you got the information off on Illium, it could be any information broker or any number of other options.
I think they were trying to strike a delicate balance between reminding you that staying true is still an option, but making it seem less appealing than the alternatives. Bioware has a history of screwing with people's heads and not always making choices as obvious as they seem. Whether you agree that this was the right way to go about it is a different matter. With regards to balance, I'd say they got it almost right with Kaiden and Ash. Their reasons for turning their back on you are believeable, their absence makes sense, and you get an e-mail that reminds you it's not completely over. With regards to Liara, I agree they screwed up. For a start, they shouldn't have had her just sitting there, accessible to talk to at anytime. It just makes it even less believable that neither her nor Shepard mentions their past romance. Secondly, her change of character was dissapointing and unbelievable. If it is just a plot device to make it harder to remain true to her, it's understanable why they did it, but it could have been handled a lot better.
That's my opinion anyway.

Except they shouldn't be railroading us into wanting to cheat, people should want to cheat because the new LI's are so interesting, not because their old ones aren't.  As for the tali part, I don't think fem sheps can romance her which only leaves Garrus for the alien thing if people are into that and there's a big difference between Liara, Tali, and Garrus.

[Daeion]

General Stubbs wrote...

My biggest problem with the scene was Shepard's lack of emotion. I guess she had some sort of excuse (albeit a lame one on BioWare's part) for not saying I love you.
There is no real excuse for Shepard not to be loving towards her after two years of not seeing her.

Exactly, and as people have said, shep was more excited to see Garrus then Liara which is lame considering Liara was a LI in ME and Garrus was just a friend.

[Nozybidaj]

Daeion wrote...

Except they shouldn't be railroading us into wanting to cheat, people should want to cheat because the new LI's are so interesting, not because their old ones aren't.  As for the tali part, I don't think fem sheps can romance her which only leaves Garrus for the alien thing if people are into that and there's a big difference between Liara, Tali, and Garrus.

Well, aside from Tali the rest of the new LI's actually are that uninteresting, so I can kinda sorta see why the felt they needed to remove any trace of the ME1 romances so people would feel more "explorative".

[Daeion]

bjdbwea wrote...

General Stubbs wrote...

My biggest problem with the scene was Shepard's lack of emotion.

Playing that scene again with a female Shepard, I had the feeling as if Shepard was looking quite angry and maybe a bit sad during the whole scene. As if she couldn't believe either how that conversation went. But I actually think that impression had more to do with the lighting on the face. In any case, there simply needed to be one simple line of conversation. That's really the inexcusable main problem.

I'm going to go with they originaly intended for Conrad Verner to be the info broker on Illium and then they realized that they had given Ash/Kaiden cameos but not Liara and that's why everything is awkward because they didn't ahve time to properly change things to match her.

[Kabraxal]

What I don't understand... are people so impatient that they can't wait to either use/create an ME1 single character or simply use the default Shepard in ME2?



None of my attached Shepards will cheat, but that doesn't mean that I didn't make sure that I had available Shep's looking for love. No guilty conscience for me... unless the ramifications for cheating are awesome in ME3, then I might create a renegade Shep that will stray.



On Liara... hopefully the DLC covers more of her. I think she might be close to losing it seeing as how she slipped between psychotic rage and scared anxiety over what she was becoming. A crazy Asari would not be a good thing. Especially if Shep cheats... s/he'll be the one in the cup then.

[Nimander]

As I've said before, the comic combined with her wording in ME2 is my concern.



Liara possibly having an affair a month after Shep's death, and being so loyal to him she won't talk to Shep about it and so on? That ... disturbs me.



It sounds a lot like the stereotypical 'angst is art' thing you get from bad writers. And it's enough of a trope/cliche that I worry that's where they're going.

[Kabraxal]

If they had her "cheat" in the comic, that will paint the lead writer for ME2 in a bad light. I would have no issue if the teased at it and in DLC or ME3 it would either be simple teasing (LI Liara) or relationship (non LI).



Unlike Ash/Kaidan who were unaware of the plan to bring Shep back, Liara was aware that he/she might not stay dead so her having a relationship would be questionable writing at best.

[jojon2se]

Umm, reading the last few posts: have related DLC actually been announced, or are people mistakenly taking the "here's hoping for..." earlier, to be more than just "hoping for"?

Modifié par jojon2se, 07 février 2010 - 06:40 .

[Monstruo696]

ITT People who don't have a clue about script writing.

[jlb524]

Daeion wrote...

Exactly, and as people have said, shep was more excited to see Garrus then Liara which is lame considering Liara was a LI in ME and Garrus was just a friend.

That is sad.  I cringed when my Shepard yelled 'Garrus'!  after meeting him on Omega.   We weren't that friendly, damn!

[Toxik King]

Nimander wrote...

As I've said before, the comic combined with her wording in ME2 is my concern.

Liara possibly having an affair a month after Shep's death, and being so loyal to him she won't talk to Shep about it and so on? That ... disturbs me.

It sounds a lot like the stereotypical 'angst is art' thing you get from bad writers. And it's enough of a trope/cliche that I worry that's where they're going.

What if the Shadow Broker sold out Shepard's location and stuff to the Collectors?
And she doesn't tell you because she thinks it will distract you from your mission or something.
I haven't read the comic, though, so there could be something pointing against that. Sorry if there is.

[Kabraxal]

There have been DLC hints and teases that indicates that a Liara DLC mission is in the pipeline. Nothing substantial or definitive.

[marshalleck]

jojon2se wrote...

Umm, reading the last few posts: have related DLC actually been announced, or are people mistakenly taking the "here's hoping for..." earlier, to be more than just "hoping for"?

As I understand it, some people were poking around in the game files and found something called "LIARA_DLC" or something along those lines. That's where the idea is coming from.