1679 réponses à ce sujet

[Nozybidaj]

CastroKathy wrote...

The bottom-line for me; ME1 was compelling enough for me to purchase ME2 on release day (never done that before). I loved the characters, the story and the relationship with Liara. ME2 will not compel me to purchase ME3 on release day. While I do like many, many things about the game, it’s lost some of the spark I got from ME1. At the time, if it becomes clear from these boards that the story and characters are worthy of paying full price great, if not I’ll buy the thing used or wait six months and buy it at a discount.

I definitely went ahead and bought ME2 based on my experiences with past BW games.  I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt despite my own concerns about what we knew prior to launch.  I won't be doing that again with BW.  I've even delyed getting the DA:O RtO and preordering Awakenings till I know more about the plans for ME and my favorite characters.  If I had waited till after release and seen how some of the ME1 characters had been treated I doubt I would have purchased ME2.

I agree that ME2 really lost that spark that made ME1 such a great game, if they can't get that back prior to ME3 with some proper DLC or expansions for ME2 I will assuredly be delaying getting ME3 till I know it at least tries to recapture that magic.

[Jeremy Winston]

I think ME2 had just as much spark, if not more as ME1. Try to see it as someone who never played ME1 and compare it that way.



I'm replaying ME1 to get some new combinations of decisions/LIs, and it doesn't feel the same as the first time I played it.



The issue for ME1 players is that ME2, while it continued the general storyline, did NOT continue our individual Shepard story lines. It's almost like it was a new Shepard. I think that is why the 'spark' isn't there. We had expectations that our romantic environment from ME1, even if underplayed, would be present and supported.

[Nozybidaj]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

I think ME2 had just as much spark, if not more as ME1. Try to see it as someone who never played ME1 and compare it that way.

I'm replaying ME1 to get some new combinations of decisions/LIs, and it doesn't feel the same as the first time I played it.

The issue for ME1 players is that ME2, while it continued the general storyline, did NOT continue our individual Shepard story lines. It's almost like it was a new Shepard. I think that is why the 'spark' isn't there. We had expectations that our romantic environment from ME1, even if underplayed, would be present and supported.

I've thought about this before, I honestly think if I had never played ME1 that ME2 would probably be my favorite game of all time. 

I can't go back and unplay ME1 though.  I think this really highlights just how much BW let down (at least some) ME1 fans.  I can appreciate the fact that they wanted to accomodate new fans but it should not have come at the expense of fans of the previous title.  I could accept the reduced role of ME1 LI's if the explainations had been sufficient and that our choices from the first game had been properly acknowledged.  

The fact that the clearly wanted you to forget about your ME1 choices and in cases such as Liara completely railroaded you into not even being allowed to recogonize the relationships that made our Shepards unique to us in the first game is the major focus of my disappointment.

There are so many very simple things they could have done to please fans of the ME1 LI's while still upholding the direction that they had chosen to go that it feels like they simply didn't care enough to even give us even a single line or two of fanservice.

[Deluge82]

I'm sorry if this was said before, I'm feeling lazy and don't want to shift through 27 pages.

first "I want ma Liara back!"

Second, I have a feeling that the comic will explain a good bit of where Liara is at currently. Also Liara is worried about being recorded speaking with Shepard, and says that at some point. Given the nature of Illium (Don't sign anything!) I think she may be in over her head and is trying to protect Shepard, or can't appear to be involved too deeply with him. The short kiss, well even Asari can get overly promotional at times. Further reason to lead me to this speculation is TIM says shes working for the shadowbroker, Liara says she hunting him down. Yea TIM is a minipulative..... (clears throat) but he hasn't exactly lied to Shepard before, just left out key information to get what he wanted done.

So personally I'm rather interested in seeing how this little sub-plot unfolds. A interesting mechanic that can be added in would be like Alister or Leliana in DA:O, where through choosing the good (paragon) or bad (renegade) choices there will inevitably be when she is introduced, be it DLC or ME3, Liara will have either a mature but still ME1-ish Liara quality, or the darker persona we have seen in ME2.



Well thats my two cents, sorry if it was repetitive again.

[Nozybidaj]

Deluge82 wrote...

Well thats my two cents, sorry if it was repetitive again.

Not at all, thanks for showing Liara support, we need all we can get.

[Unit-Alpha]

Nozybidaj wrote...

CastroKathy wrote...

The bottom-line for me; ME1 was compelling enough for me to purchase ME2 on release day (never done that before). I loved the characters, the story and the relationship with Liara. ME2 will not compel me to purchase ME3 on release day. While I do like many, many things about the game, it’s lost some of the spark I got from ME1. At the time, if it becomes clear from these boards that the story and characters are worthy of paying full price great, if not I’ll buy the thing used or wait six months and buy it at a discount.

I definitely went ahead and bought ME2 based on my experiences with past BW games.  I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt despite my own concerns about what we knew prior to launch.  I won't be doing that again with BW.  I've even delyed getting the DA:O RtO and preordering Awakenings till I know more about the plans for ME and my favorite characters.  If I had waited till after release and seen how some of the ME1 characters had been treated I doubt I would have purchased ME2.

I agree that ME2 really lost that spark that made ME1 such a great game, if they can't get that back prior to ME3 with some proper DLC or expansions for ME2 I will assuredly be delaying getting ME3 till I know it at least tries to recapture that magic.

Agreed. I will wait until ME3 has been out long enough for a full, in depth review of the storyline and romances before and if I purchase it. No preordering ME3 for me, sorry BW, I gave you a chance with my first game preorder ever and you disappointed me with the story and the way Liara was handled. I preordered it so I could see the next chapter in the storyline but now I'm not so sure I want to see what they do to avoid ME1 romances again.

[Jeremy Winston]

The comic may explain quite a bit. But it doesn't solve the key issue... and that is that ME2 makes me feel like I wasted my time in ME1, at least from a romantic/personal point of view.



I went with Liara as well, but this issue really affects all the ME1 relationships.

[Ulicus]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

The comic may explain quite a bit. But it doesn't solve the key issue... and that is that ME2 makes me feel like I wasted my time in ME1, at least from a romantic/personal point of view.

Four conversations that take up less than half an hour isn't  a huge amount of wasted time.

1) Shepard, you'd be interesting to study. Oh, I'm embarassed.

2) Shepard, I'm interested in YOU. You're/not into Ashley/Kaidan? You like me too/anyway? Awesome! Weird, huh? Lets back off for a bit!

3) Shepard, I really like you but I've never had sex or melded with anyone before. Whoa, easy tiger, I'm only 106!

4) We're gonna die tomorrow. You like me, I like you. Let's go.

I adored Liara in ME1, don't get me wrong... but ehhh... I don't know. I'm just taking the ME2 stuff in my stride. As I said way back in the thread, it would have been nice to have got some Kelly comments regarding Liara (Liara, unlike everyone else, isn't stupid enough to send Shepard a personal email via Cerberus) but other than that? I'm not too fussed by how she was handled.

I can handle her having been head-over-heels for Shepard regardless of whether s/he returned those feelings and I don't mind that one of my MSheps can talk about "wishing he had more time" with Kaidan just as my other MSheps can about Ash, so....

[Jeremy Winston]

Well, yes.. I'm not looking for a romantic novella. And, you're right. The physical time isn't really the issue. Perhaps I should have talked about emotional investment. As many have said, a single line of LI-only dialog from Liara would have made everything much, much better.



The romance subplots weren't all that invasive in the game. I realize that But, ME1 did go to the effort to offer them, have them compete, and asked you to pick one (or none). I'm into the story. I went with it. I picked.



Now, it's like.. why bother? I didn't stop me from loving ME2. I just felt... adrift and cut off. Maybe that was the intent. If so, they did a hell of a job.

[Mox Ruuga]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

Well, yes.. I'm not looking for a romantic novella. And, you're right. The physical time isn't really the issue. Perhaps I should have talked about emotional investment. As many have said, a single line of LI-only dialog from Liara would have made everything much, much better.

The romance subplots weren't all that invasive in the game. I realize that But, ME1 did go to the effort to offer them, have them compete, and asked you to pick one (or none). I'm into the story. I went with it. I picked.

Now, it's like.. why bother? I didn't stop me from loving ME2. I just felt... adrift and cut off. Maybe that was the intent. If so, they did a hell of a job.

Well, we have two years to discuss the issue, unless the devs start talking about ME3 really early, or the possible Liara DLC exceeds our wildest expectations.

Argh. Two years it is, I'm fairly sure.

[Ulicus]

Jeremy:

Fair enough.

My first Shep in ME2 was a guy who had romanced Liara (he was my first Shep ever, actually, and ended up with Liara because he suggested a threesome... but I digress). I thought the reunion and the kiss (with her slight shake of the head as if to imply something else) were fine: and I loved the Benezia act. Yeah, it'd have been nice and would have made more sense to have been able to enquire after "us" but c'est la vie.

I'm guessing the "kiss" was the confirmation that the romance was still a'go. Or maybe it's like Buffy and Angel, and kissing just means "hello" and Spike gets jealous.

Modifié par Ulicus, 08 février 2010 - 04:36 .

[Jeremy Winston]

Yeah.. we did get the kiss, which some might consider better than the email from Ash/Kai.



And I did take the headshake in a positive, but "we can't discuss it" kinda thing, as opposed to the negative, guilty view that others have taken.



Well.. we'll see when we see. Meanwhile, I'll be prepping bunches of imports with the other LIs, no LI, etc. Hopefully, there will be enough DLC to keep me happy for awhile.



I feel like I did when I played Runaway II, and that sorta just ended, and I had to wait several years for III.



Gosh.. I hope my 360 survives, or I lose all those save games.

[Daeion]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Patience is a virtue that it is clear some people in this topic seriously lack.

You were all told BEFORE the game came out that they wouldn't be in it much, it was a bit obvious the conversations weren't going to be great, specially for Ash/Kaiden considering your working for an enemy that we fought in ME and obviously due to Liara as she feels guilty for giving you to Cerberus.

I know this might be hard for some of you kids to understand but I am sure Bioware is going to ensure the LIs play a big part in ME3 so how about showing some patience.

Being courteous is clearly a virtue that you lack.

You are right, we were told they wouldn't have big parts in ME2, that doesn't mean that their wouldn't be any acknowledgement of the past romance.  That's what people are upset about, not that ME LI's didn't play a big role, we wanted a quality interaction, something that was sorely lacking.

Modifié par Daeion, 08 février 2010 - 05:19 .

[Daeion]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Patience is a virtue that it is clear some people in this topic seriously lack.

You were all told BEFORE the game came out that they wouldn't be in it much, it was a bit obvious the conversations weren't going to be great, specially for Ash/Kaiden considering your working for an enemy that we fought in ME and obviously due to Liara as she feels guilty for giving you to Cerberus.

I know this might be hard for some of you kids to understand but I am sure Bioware is going to ensure the LIs play a big part in ME3 so how about showing some patience.

Arrogance is a flaw. We already showed patience waiting for ME2. Theyve told us next to nothing, and just sidelined it without a care in the world. Why dont you exercise some patience and let Bioware recieve the criticism theyve duly earned. Until whatever they have planned for DLC or ME3 comes out, her role sucks, and Bioware sucks for doing it.

I refer you to the part of my post that I've just bolded for you as it is clear you didn't read it.

They told us that the LIs wouldn't be in it much and to be honest if you can't understand why the 3 LIs are the way they are with Shep then you clearly lack intelligence. They said they would be playing major parts in ME3, so as I said... patience.

Edit: @Mox smug troll? i think not, voice of reason more like. If you lack the intelligence to come out with anything but such a stupid comment, maybe it best you not bother at all.

I think everyone understands Ash/Kaidens reactions to you working with Cerberus, and heck, you get to talk to some people about the relationship.  These are things we don't get with Liara, the first time I went to see her I brough Tali and Garrus along in hopes of there being some comments, nothing.  And after everything is said and done I don't get to go talk to Kelly or Joker about Liara...

[Samurro]

Nozybidaj wrote...

I definitely went ahead and bought ME2 based on my experiences with past BW games.  I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt despite my own concerns about what we knew prior to launch.  I won't be doing that again with BW.  I've even delyed getting the DA:O RtO and preordering Awakenings till I know more about the plans for ME and my favorite characters.  If I had waited till after release and seen how some of the ME1 characters had been treated I doubt I would have purchased ME2.

Seriously! Get a life!

[Unit-Alpha]

Samurro wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

I definitely went ahead and bought ME2 based on my experiences with past BW games.  I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt despite my own concerns about what we knew prior to launch.  I won't be doing that again with BW.  I've even delyed getting the DA:O RtO and preordering Awakenings till I know more about the plans for ME and my favorite characters.  If I had waited till after release and seen how some of the ME1 characters had been treated I doubt I would have purchased ME2.

Seriously! Get a life!

Wow... was that necessary? Nope, so don't post here.

[Daeion]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

sm00thie88 wrote...

This isn't about patience or any other noble virtue - this is about how the dialogue with liara was designed and it was designed poorly.

I'll bet that everyone could live with the LI's from me1 not having a big role in me2 but having some substantial conversation which warms your heart - but fail

You mean the dialogue where she opens up to you if you manage to probe with the right questions to confirm her feeling of guilt for leaving you with Cerberus just with some glimmer of hope you might live and that is even if you don't romance her?

That dialogue?

Ok, you clearly are living in some stupid dreamworld if you expected her after what she has been through to be in any super happy joy joy state of mind.

You mean the dialogue that anyone can get, not just those that rommanced her in the first game?

[Nozybidaj]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Wow... was that necessary? Nope, so don't post here.

LOL, just ignore the trolls, they don't really warrant a response and its always better not to risk throwing the thread off track.

[bjdbwea]

Yeah, the romance bits in ME 1 were short. But that rug really tied the room together. And they had a soul. If you want proof that video games can be a piece of art, look no further than the scene on board the Normandy after the council betrayed you, where the LI picks a disappointed Shepard up. Granted, it may be a bit lazy that it plays exactly the same for every LI, but nevertheless. Nothing like that exists in ME 2. "Hey, let's do it?" - "Okay."

[Nozybidaj]

bjdbwea wrote...

Yeah, the romance bits in ME 1 were short. But that rug really tied the room together. And they had a soul. If you want proof that video games can be a piece of art, look no further than the scene on board the Normandy after the council betrayed you, where the LI picks a disappointed Shepard up. Granted, it may be a bit lazy that it plays exactly the same for every LI, but nevertheless. Nothing like that exists in ME 2. "Hey, let's do it?" - "Okay."

I thought the Tali romance was done really well right up until the point where they start to bombard you with all the interspecies stuff that was really unnecessary.  I don't remember Kirk ever having to worry about that kind of stuff and it worked just fine.

I have not done any of the Femshep ones though so can't comment, but yes all the other MaleShep ones in ME2 are just about shagging before the big mission.

[Daeion]

Maviarab wrote...

To all the people ****ing here....

YEah its a let down, but this is Bioware.....and their writing skills are the best in the business. This would have been done for a reason....can just see you all in 2-3 years time....lawding and praising the very same people your now dissing for what a wonderful way Liara was potrayed and written.

Just because YOU don't LIKE whats been done with her is quite frankly YOUR issue...it will be resolved in ME3, we all know this, have been told this.

There is no 'need' for anything, are you professional writers? No didnt think so, so you have no frame of referance on what is good writing or bad. As for other posters insults, no one is out of it, your just a typical customer who wants wants wants and wants some more, screw everyone else cos you have not got your toys. Nice to see the foums are still a happy place to be.

So, accept thats the way se has been written, and wait for more of her (presumably as a squad member and LI) in ME3....

I'm going to guess that in 2 years when ME3 comes out we aren't going to be praising BW, we will instead be cursing them for once again forcing the new squad mates and new LI's on us instead of actually developing the original cast.  It's not hard to read a book, play a game, or watch a movie and see the difference between good and bad writing.  We simply want what those who romanced Ahs/Kaiden got.

[Nozybidaj]

Daeion wrote...

I'm going to guess that in 2 years when ME3 comes out we aren't going to be praising BW, we will instead be cursing them for once again forcing the new squad mates and new LI's on us instead of actually developing the original cast.  It's not hard to read a book, play a game, or watch a movie and see the difference between good and bad writing.  We simply want what those who romanced Ahs/Kaiden got.

That's why we are here now, to make sure BW understands the disappointment in ME2 so the can correct these mistakes in ME3.

[Unit-Alpha]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Daeion wrote...

I'm going to guess that in 2 years when ME3 comes out we aren't going to be praising BW, we will instead be cursing them for once again forcing the new squad mates and new LI's on us instead of actually developing the original cast.  It's not hard to read a book, play a game, or watch a movie and see the difference between good and bad writing.  We simply want what those who romanced Ahs/Kaiden got.

That's why we are here now, to make sure BW understands the disappointment in ME2 so the can correct these mistakes in ME3.

Too bad it seems like the devs no longer read these topics at all. Remember, BW, hubris is a dangerous beast.

[Mox Ruuga]

Unit-Alpha wrote...


Too bad it seems like the devs no longer read these topics at all. Remember, BW, hubris is a dangerous beast.

We don't know that they don't read. They just don't reply to anything.

The game is still fresh, and from looking the way Woo was swamped for his comments on the main ME forum, I kinda don't blame the devs for not participating quite yet. Give it a month or two, so the immediate rage/euphoria has cooled down a bit.

Our Liara threads will be right here, waiting for them.

[Jeremy Winston]

What's this about Woo and the main forum? Link? (Yes.. I'm lazy.. and at work, so I'm doing this stealth-like. )