1679 réponses à ce sujet

[Nozybidaj]

General Stubbs wrote...

I thought Casey looked a little to happy when he talked about cheating on our ME1 LI. (Why did you forget about Liara?!?).
I think BioWare put a bit to much time into that aspect of the romances...
Maybe this will turn out to be a good thing. Maybe we will get to experience the romance with Liara even longer because BioWare will want to make it up in the Liara DLC.
Hopefully, the Liara DLC will actually be a full expansion that is 15+ hours and we will get to see the Liara we all know and love once again. (the more Liara the better!!)

I don't have words to express how much I support this.

[Mox Ruuga]

Nozybidaj wrote...

That's my main gripe.  The ME1 LI's are all missing their second acts.  Unless BW is planning to come out with huge amounts of DLC pretty much focused on these characters their role will be, at best, a 2 part series and at worst forgotten about after the first chapter.

An even larger concern now is his "you might guess where we're going with it" after seeing Liara in ME2.  I really am trying to hold on to hope that they haven't done anything distasteful with Liara that is going to ruin the character for me.  Very concerned.

Yes, well, depending on what he meant, if he actually thought the ME1 LIs had an important part in ME2 I'd like see what he's smoking. It must be pretty strong stuff...

They will either get wise and try to salvage the character by making her seem more true to herself, or push her deeper towards the abyss and continue the GrimDarkification. We won't get hints of this from the last two comic issues, or perhaps even from the DLC. It'll be a long wait for ME3...

Urgh. It was such a half assed job, a real middle finger from the devs to her fans, what they did with Liara. And that was the "second part" of a three act romance?  An awkward kiss and a glance at a picture?

[Nozybidaj]

Daeion wrote...

We'll we've already been told the faithful will be rewarded, but who wants to wait 2 years to resolve what appears to be a poorly implimented LI plot?

I also hope the cheaters are punished appropriately.

I would be extremely disappointed if all cheating amounts to is an extra line or two of dialogue then its back to business as usual.  If you cheat it should block off that LI as a romance option in ME3.

[Adon 9]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

CaseyH-ME2: The real challenge is that many people will be unfaithful to their ME1 love interest because the ones in ME2 are really compelling.

Which... is a LOT of spin-doctoring.  While your mileage may vary on how compelling the ones in ME2 are, the fact of the matter is that the encounters with the ME1 love interests were designed quite deliberately to leave a sour taste in the player's mouth.  Simply put, it's not so much that the new ones are 'really compelling' as 'we set it up that players wouldn't feel too bad about dumping their old LIs'.
Just had to get that out, I know, preaching to the choir here.

[DigitalMaster37]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Deltaboy37-1... Stop messing this thread up with your "hate argument" nonsense. Are you really that narrow minded? This is an RPG remember? Thus you play a role. Breaking up a relation is not that odd or uncommon.

I am not hating Liara. Most of my Shepards adored her.

One of my Shepards doesn't like her actions: The fact that she fiddled with my body without my consent triggered that Shepard does not trust her. In ME2 it is a given what she has done and it is the reason that you are there. But selling me to Cerberus doesn't make that Shepard trust her.

The other one has pink glasses and will adore her whatever she does.

AngryFrozenWater, why are you attacking me? I am not messing anything up, a few people did come in with some "hate" filled statements. Also I am not closed minded, I am aware and you should be too. Again I don't care how you play the game, you can do what you like, so stop attacking me assuming I am bothered by your dislike of Liara. So with that said, please leave me alone. Jeez, touchy much?

[Chrono Mizaki]

Did the developer really had the ball with Liara to begin with? She went from stereotypical mary-sue who demand sex on the table to moody, lack of purity, lass.

[Mox Ruuga]

Chrono Mizaki wrote...

Did the developer really had the ball with Liara to begin with? She went from stereotypical mary-sue who demand sex on the table to moody, lack of purity, lass.

Thanks for the bump!

[Mox Ruuga]

Adon 9 wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

CaseyH-ME2: The real challenge is that many people will be unfaithful to their ME1 love interest because the ones in ME2 are really compelling.

Which... is a LOT of spin-doctoring.  While your mileage may vary on how compelling the ones in ME2 are, the fact of the matter is that the encounters with the ME1 love interests were designed quite deliberately to leave a sour taste in the player's mouth.  Simply put, it's not so much that the new ones are 'really compelling' as 'we set it up that players wouldn't feel too bad about dumping their old LIs'.
Just had to get that out, I know, preaching to the choir here.

Indeed. They rigged the whole game against the ME1 LIs.

Romance in 3 acts, my foot. Romance followed by wrecking and character assassination followed by ???.

[Daeion]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Ah, here is the quote I was looking for, from a chat before the release of ME2.

First, the question:

WhisperPiano: By now, we are aware that most of the characters from the first game have been given greatly reduced roles, including the three potential love interests. While the new crew is intriguing, many of us are irked by what appears to be a disregard for the personal subplots through which each of our Shepards' stories were individualized. My question is: wil those of us who choose to have our Shepards remain faithful to one of the original romance options be able to come away as satisfied with the roma...

Then Casey Hudson's spin:

CaseyH-ME2: WhisperPiano - this is an interesting question that we see a lot. Here's our take...


CaseyH-ME2: While Mass Effect fans have grown to love our characters, you can imagine that after spending years crafting them, we have at least as much of an attachment to them. So it's definitely not a case of the team disregarding player's decisions with them or interest in those characters - in fact, it's the opposite...

CaseyH-ME2: We actually want to make sure these characters survive the ME2 story, which ultimately is a suicide mission: some of your crew will almost certainly die. Some of the ME1 characters are back, and recruitable (more than you might think), and the ones that aren't still play an important role in the story and will be around for ME3 - which we can't say for the new characters.


CaseyH-ME2: Another important thing to consider is that much of the fun of ME1 was the discovery of new people and places. If we made ME2 out of the same characters, you'd miss out of the fun of that discovery.

CaseyH-ME2: Finally, if you are worried about the role of the ME1 love interest in the trilogy, consider that the romance itself is told across the trilogy, in 3 acts. Apply the 3-act concept to what's happening in your relationship with them, and you might guess where we're going with it.

CaseyH-ME2: The real challenge is that many people will be unfaithful to their ME1 love interest because the ones in ME2 are really compelling.

Two questions/points about his answer (the bolded text):

1) Where the hell were those important parts? Was it the email from Ash, or the hacking missions from Liara? Or does he mean something hypothetical that will possibly happen in ME3?

2) Telling a love story in three acts, eh? Why was there nothing in the second act then? Seems to me calling a barely there cameo in the second act as part of a "three act love story" is being rather generous. Especially since there was barely anything in the game even indicating something had happened between Liara and Shepard. A lukewarm kiss and a picture frame on a desk.

Yes, he repeats the "we are saving them for ME3" spiel, but I don't trust him.

I enjoy the part about the ME2 LI's being so intriguing, maybe they were for male sheps, but female sheps didn't really have any good options.

[Nozybidaj]

Adon 9 wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

CaseyH-ME2: The real challenge is that many people will be unfaithful to their ME1 love interest because the ones in ME2 are really compelling.

Which... is a LOT of spin-doctoring.  While your mileage may vary on how compelling the ones in ME2 are, the fact of the matter is that the encounters with the ME1 love interests were designed quite deliberately to leave a sour taste in the player's mouth.  Simply put, it's not so much that the new ones are 'really compelling' as 'we set it up that players wouldn't feel too bad about dumping their old LIs'.
Just had to get that out, I know, preaching to the choir here.

I thought the Tali romance was really well done right up until they start to beat you over the head with all the "interspecies relations" bull.  Kirk never had to worry about that stuff, I don't need it in my Tali romance.  I was perfectly happy with the old dev quote that Tali would be perfectly safe having human relations on the Normandy.  It felt like they went out of their way with this just to make fun of the folks that wanted to romance her.  It was unnecessary.

Aside from that all the others felt really shallow.  Thane had potential but it was really short.  The others all felt like it was just about a quick romp before the suicide mission instead of a "romance", though I haven't seen the Garrus one so it may have played differently.

Aside from Tali I didn't feel any of them expressed the same sort of emotional connection that the ME1 romances had.

[jojon2se]

Typical second act/middle of romantic movie setup is with the relationship faltering.

[Nozybidaj]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Adon 9 wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

CaseyH-ME2: The real challenge is that many people will be unfaithful to their ME1 love interest because the ones in ME2 are really compelling.

Which... is a LOT of spin-doctoring.  While your mileage may vary on how compelling the ones in ME2 are, the fact of the matter is that the encounters with the ME1 love interests were designed quite deliberately to leave a sour taste in the player's mouth.  Simply put, it's not so much that the new ones are 'really compelling' as 'we set it up that players wouldn't feel too bad about dumping their old LIs'.
Just had to get that out, I know, preaching to the choir here.

Indeed. They rigged the whole game against the ME1 LIs.

Romance in 3 acts, my foot. Romance followed by wrecking and character assassination followed by ???.

Agreed.  The ??? better be amazingly epic.

[Nozybidaj]

bah double post.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 09 février 2010 - 05:11 .

[Daeion]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

CaseyH-ME2: Finally, if you are worried about the role of the ME1 love
interest in the trilogy, consider that the romance itself is told across the trilogy, in 3 acts. Apply the 3-act concept to what's happening in your relationship with them, and you might guess where we're going with it.

2) Telling a love story in three acts, eh? Why was there nothing in the second act then? Seems to me calling a barely there cameo in the second act as part of a "three act love story" is being rather generous. Especially since there was barely anything in the game even indicating something had happened between Liara and Shepard. A lukewarm kiss and a picture frame on a desk.

That's my main gripe.  The ME1 LI's are all missing their second acts.  Unless BW is planning to come out with huge amounts of DLC pretty much focused on these characters their role will be, at best, a 2 part series and at worst forgotten about after the first chapter.

An even larger concern now is his "you might guess where we're going with it" after seeing Liara in ME2.  I really am trying to hold on to hope that they haven't done anything distasteful with Liara that is going to ruin the character for me.  Very concerned.

Perhaps the "far-reaching" something planned for Q4 of 2010 will be an expansion or some sort of large DLC that takes care of all the LI's by letting you return to them after the suicide mission.

[Nozybidaj]

jojon2se wrote...

Typical second act/middle of romantic movie setup is with the relationship faltering.

Wouldn't the romance actually need to have a second act to be able to falter?

[WilliamShatner]

The only compelling ME2 LI is Tali who at this moment is male Shepard only, and Kelly who doesn't count.



Also, I read the first two comics. There's more of the original Liara we all know and love in it but she's clearly been beefed up to "action heroine" role so she can carry the title.

[Daeion]

General Stubbs wrote...

I thought Casey looked a little to happy when he talked about cheating on our ME1 LI. (Why did you forget about Liara?!?).
I think BioWare put a bit to much time into that aspect of the romances...
Maybe this will turn out to be a good thing. Maybe we will get to experience the romance with Liara even longer because BioWare will want to make it up in the Liara DLC.
Hopefully, the Liara DLC will actually be a full expansion that is 15+ hours and we will get to see the Liara we all know and love once again. (the more Liara the better!!)

I could go for that.

[Mox Ruuga]

jojon2se wrote...

Typical second act/middle of romantic movie setup is with the relationship faltering.

Even so, they made a really poor showing of it. Yes, Ash and Kaidan rage at you briefly, but I wouldn't call that an important part in the plot. And the conciliatory email soon follows. Poor Liara and the poor poor Shepards who love her get even less. It's difficult to tell they ever had a romance, much less that they are having one now.

If you're going to have the lovers quarrel, for fvhk's sake do it properly! Give us fire, give us emotion, give us something... instead of this big pile of nothing we ended up being served.

[Daeion]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Daeion wrote...

We'll we've already been told the faithful will be rewarded, but who wants to wait 2 years to resolve what appears to be a poorly implimented LI plot?

I also hope the cheaters are punished appropriately.

I would be extremely disappointed if all cheating amounts to is an extra line or two of dialogue then its back to business as usual.  If you cheat it should block off that LI as a romance option in ME3.

Honestly I wouldn't be surpirsied if that's all that happened, two extra lines of dialogue, but yeah, at a minimum it should block off the ME1 LI and your ME2 LI should treat you differently then because now they wonder if you will cheat on them as well.

Modifié par Daeion, 09 février 2010 - 06:38 .

[Br0th3rGr1mm]

Here are my thoughts about this issue AND all the other ME1 Love Intrest threads I've seen here:

• Too many fans seem to forget that this trilogy is SHEPHERD's STORY and while they have been told by Bioware that this is THEIR Shepherd...it's not.  While the player has decision making power in a wide variety of instances, the base character is NOT the freeform, old-school RPG personna that the player makes up in their head and then role play thru the game story...it's Commander Shepherd that Bioware pretty much layed out and defined as the main character in an epic space opera.   Certainly the player guides him/her thru the story, but you do not DEFINE him/her (beyond the broad 9 possible backround combinations available when you start the character). The only analogy I can think of is that at it's most basic design, the characters in Mass Effect (especially Commander Shepherd) are based on what many gamers would consider the old-school JRPG formula (with some twists that mask it) and yet the game has been received and accepted as a Western RPG with shooter elments (I'm not saying this was done with intentional decpetion in mind....that's just how it happened).  Basicly, the term MY SHEPHERD is an illusion that too many fans fail to recognize (or when they do realize it, they refuse to accept it and just lash out against the Devs or anyone that tries to convince them otherwise).  The streamlining of the RPG elements in ME2 have made this more evident and thus enraged RPG purists even more. 
  
  
  
• Far too many "fans" have read FAR too much into a one night fling 2 individuals running for their lives into almost certain death had at the end of ME1.  Yeah, I'm talking about the the love scene in ME1 that should not be that big a deal once the dust settled and the big bad Reaper was dead.  Grasping onto someone for mutual comfort in the heat of the moment during a a desperate situation is not the best basis for a long term relationship.  The fact that fans playing the game have attempted to project thier personal desires into what SHOULD have happened after the end of ME1 does not change the fact that Bioware has deemed the ME1 love scene as an important (and maybe even tender) moment in the 2 participants lives, but NOT the defining moment at the start of a profound relationship that was perfect loving bliss until the fate of the Normandy SR1.  Frankly, we don't know WHAT happend between Shepherd and their LI in those few months (beyond the few terse and stressed comments at the start of ME2).  
  
  
  
• The idea that Shepherd (as the character that BIOWARE wrote into this game, NOT the character that fans want him/her to be), would be a one woman man (or a one man woman) is rather naive and makes many assumptions that we just don't have enough data to confirm or deny.  Again, this problem goes back to the MY SHEPHERD issue.  Obviously Bioware realized this problem was going to arise and thus the next point.
  
  
  
• Bioware intentionally made your ME1 LIs inaccesable and cold for a reason.  That reason being to make the NEW love intrests.accessable and to give you an "out" when pondering the "cheating" issue.   Also, they wanted to not imply you could rekindle the old flame...at least not right now.
  
  
  
• My thoughts on the Liara issue are that until ALL of the REDEMPTION comics are out, we can only speculate on what's up with Liara, but from the conversation in the game it seems obvious to me that SHE is distancing herself from Shepherd because she cheated on you (tho, she DID think you were dead) and does not want to confront you with that information just yet.  it seems obvious to me, she considers your night on the Normandy as a fling, she met someone else after you "died" and she is now obsessed with revenge against he Shadow Broker for whatever happend to her new "lover".

They didn't drop the ball, you are just not seeing the possilbity of something more complex in the story and are letting your fan infatuation with a specific character cloud your vision.

Your lack of faith in Bioware is disturbing.

Modifié par Br0th3rGr1mm, 09 février 2010 - 06:18 .

[Jeremy Winston]

Liara was always tough as nails, combat-wise. No hardening necessary for the comic.



I'm playing through ME1 to set up a additional LIs, and I usually play Soldier and take Liara and Tali. I play on Casual for quickness. Most of the time when I'm in a cutscene with dialog before combat starts... by the time my rifle is out and ready, Liara's killed everyone.



She may be Mary-Ann, but don't mess with her.

[Mox Ruuga]

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...

Here are my thoughts about this issue AND all the other ME1 Love Intrest threads I've seen here:

Teal Deer

Cool story bro.

Thanks for the bump.

[Justin2k]

Truth is Liara just isn't as popular as other squad members/romance options.



Tali has several threads and groups spanning thousands of posts. Ashley has a dedicated group with hundreds of posts and Miranda has a fair bit. Even Kaiden.



Liara just isn't all that popular (although to her fans i understand she is the best :-) )



Personally I don't really like the Asari in general.

[Nozybidaj]

Daeion wrote...

Honestly I wouldn't be surpirsied if that's all that happened, two extra lines of dialogue, but yeah, at a minimum it should block of the ME1 LI and your ME2 LI should treat you differently then because now they wonder if you will cheat on them as well.

Well they said it would have consequences.  Of course they said that about a lot of things, but if they intend to follow through on this one it would be a perfect way to do it.

Then those that stayed faithful need something big to reward them.

[Nozybidaj]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...

Here are my thoughts about this issue AND all the other ME1 Love Intrest threads I've seen here:

Teal Deer

Cool story bro.

Thanks for the bump.

Hehe, I was thinking the same thing but decided not to bother.