1679 réponses à ce sujet

[Daeion]

Thaddeus Mynor wrote...

I like what they did with they ME1 Love Interests. Its been two years, relationships become estranged. To ask or expect that these people not grow and change in that time is ridiculous. Liara, like Garrus i'm sure, probably had something really big happen in that time span that shook and changed her personality & outlook. I liked how it was presented because it seemed a lot more adult and sadly real, and fit perfectly with the mood of the game. I'm sure that staying faithful will pay off in ME3, but in ME2 just because Shepard literally walks back into their life, doesn't mean they should stop their character development, just like that for him. (Its just something to think about.)

I'm fine with characters continuing to develop, as you said it's been two years for them, but it hasn't been two years for Shep, Shep at least should have more to say to their LI since to them it's only been a week or two since they last saw them.

[Nozybidaj]

Daeion wrote...

Thaddeus Mynor wrote...

I like what they did with they ME1 Love Interests. Its been two years, relationships become estranged. To ask or expect that these people not grow and change in that time is ridiculous. Liara, like Garrus i'm sure, probably had something really big happen in that time span that shook and changed her personality & outlook. I liked how it was presented because it seemed a lot more adult and sadly real, and fit perfectly with the mood of the game. I'm sure that staying faithful will pay off in ME3, but in ME2 just because Shepard literally walks back into their life, doesn't mean they should stop their character development, just like that for him. (Its just something to think about.)

I'm fine with characters continuing to develop, as you said it's been two years for them, but it hasn't been two years for Shep, Shep at least should have more to say to their LI since to them it's only been a week or two since they last saw them.

I also fail to see how they developed at all.  Tali and Garrus did and I thought their character development was great and well done.  Wrex, if he survived I also thought was well done.  Those three are without question the best developed characters in ME now.

The LI's though had no growth at all.  Ash and Kaidan are basically cast aside and Liara had some of the worst and most unbelievable character development I've ever seen.

[Daeion]

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

2.)If you have payed attention, it was already stated that old Li's wouldn't have a very large part in the second game and that they will have a bigger place in the third.
 

You haven't read this thread have you?

People aren't complaining that she didn't have a bigger part, as you mentioned we all knew ME LI's would ahve small roles.  That doesn't mean that we didn't expect the role they played and their development to still get the same quality writing the rest of the story gets.

[Daeion]

Gravity Bun wrote...

Liara was my romance in ME1 and yeah, it was disappointing in a way, I just figured that maybe as it's 2185 AD that relationships (especially between aliens) are more casual than some humans would like. It's weird how she didn't acknowledge a lot though, I had Garrus with me at the time - it would've been nice if she said "hi" to him or Tali.

Agreed, things like this make me think that they just threw Liara in at the last minute and didn't have time to finish the interaction and include comments from Garrus, Tali, or Liara if they are present.

[Nozybidaj]

Daeion wrote...

Gravity Bun wrote...

Liara was my romance in ME1 and yeah, it was disappointing in a way, I just figured that maybe as it's 2185 AD that relationships (especially between aliens) are more casual than some humans would like. It's weird how she didn't acknowledge a lot though, I had Garrus with me at the time - it would've been nice if she said "hi" to him or Tali.

Agreed, things like this make me think that they just threw Liara in at the last minute and didn't have time to finish the interaction and include comments from Garrus, Tali, or Liara if they are present.

Certainly possible it was last minute, the whole thing certainly feels rushed, like they are just trying to shove you back out the door immediately after seeing her again.  My last remaining hope is that they did it because they have plans for a huge and awesome expansion and didn't feel the need to expand on the scene more than they did.  I don't agree with that, but I can still hold on to a small amount of hope for Liara.

[Jeremy Winston]

If they are having some 'awesome' DLC, I'd like to hope that it somehow involves all three ME1 LIs. I really don't want to see the threads if Liara gets all the love.

[Daeion]

Sharn01 wrote...

I also dont buy the we cant tell you whats going on with her or let you talk to her for the comic book, that is even worse, they should have wrapped the comic up already or not worried about it, I dont think it hurt the sales if we get a small peak at its end, better then none of her dialog making since until DLC, all of a sudden on this playthrough you can finally talk to her, no, I got a feeling they wont be adding anything substantial until ME3.

Honestly the final issue should have been included with the game, not the first issue and then they should have released one copy a week in the weeks leading up to the game.

Modifié par Daeion, 10 février 2010 - 10:44 .

[Daeion]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

Bioware did something similar with KOTOR and the Revan Bastila romance. They left it hanging... period.

They did?  I seem to recall it being tied up in the first game and then her just making an appearence in the 2nd at the end.

[Nozybidaj]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

If they are having some 'awesome' DLC, I'd like to hope that it somehow involves all three ME1 LIs. I really don't want to see the threads if Liara gets all the love.

I can sympathize with the other LI fans, but frankly, long as I get my Liara lovin' I'm good.  I'd totally support the other LI's getting their own addions though, just so long as it doesn't detract from my Liara additions.

[Nozybidaj]

Daeion wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

I also dont buy the we cant tell you whats going on with her or let you talk to her for the comic book, that is even worse, they should have wrapped the comic up already or not worried about it, I dont think it hurt the sales if we get a small peak at its end, better then none of her dialog making since until DLC, all of a sudden on this playthrough you can finally talk to her, no, I got a feeling they wont be adding anything substantial until ME3.

Honestly the final issue should have been included with the game, not the first issue and then they should have released one copy a week in the weeks leading up to the game.

Agreed the timing of the comic was not very well thought out.  If the comic had ended with release they would have been free to make a much more impactful and emotional in game reunion with the LI's.

[MsKlaussen]

What if you didn't pick the right person to knock off during the Liara storyline?



I asked this before, but never saw if anyone answered. Does this mean she's going to be killed? Is there any other way for me to get a second chance to expose her assistant as the threat?

[Nozybidaj]

MsKlaussen wrote...

What if you didn't pick the right person to knock off during the Liara storyline?

I asked this before, but never saw if anyone answered. Does this mean she's going to be killed? Is there any other way for me to get a second chance to expose her assistant as the threat?

No idea what the outcome of that would be, and no, I don't think there is any way to go back and expose her after you finish the quest.

[Mox Ruuga]

Wasn't there a bit about Shepard having closure wrt Ash or Kaidan in TIM's Horizon after action report?

If I'm not imagining things, and there indeed was such a mention, it's yet another middle finger to Liara fans from the devs. I'm pretty sure TIM was never worried about Shep needing closure on Liara, since as we all know there was no Shepard / Liara romance in ME1... No mention of Liara in the Ilium reports, I think.

[Vayrand]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Wasn't there a bit about Shepard having closure wrt Ash or Kaidan in TIM's Horizon after action report?

If I'm not imagining things, and there indeed was such a mention, it's yet another middle finger to Liara fans from the devs. I'm pretty sure TIM was never worried about Shep needing closure on Liara, since as we all know there was no Shepard / Liara romance in ME1... No mention of Liara in the Ilium reports, I think.

I experienced that as well, I was able to talk to Kelly and Joker about Ashley, but no there was nothing not even one word about Liara.

Modifié par Vayrand, 11 février 2010 - 07:23 .

[AndroLeonidas]

Daeion wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...

Bioware did something similar with KOTOR and the Revan Bastila romance. They left it hanging... period.

They did?  I seem to recall it being tied up in the first game and then her just making an appearence in the 2nd at the end.

No... they didn't tie it up at the end unless how KOTOR ended was ok with you. Revan left her less than a year later and it is still hanging at the end of KOTOR2. That is not closure.

[Nightwriter]

Consider the times when Kelly comments. When you have recruited a new character, or when you’ve completed some mission that is a significant turning point in the story.
 
Horizon was a significant turning point in the story, but you didn’t recruit anyone there. So Kelly’s comments could focus on the mission and Kaidan/Ashley’s appearances.
 
But Illium, where you reunited with Liara, was muddled up by Samara’s and Thane’s recruitment. That took up the focus of her comments.
 
Maybe if Liara had played a central role in a story mission, it would’ve been different.

[Mox Ruuga]

Vayrand wrote...

I experienced that as well, I was able to talk to Kelly and Joker about Ashley, but no there was nothing not even one word about Liara.

Yeah, I knew about talking to Kelly and Joker about Kaidan/Ash. Now I need to remember to check if I was correct and TIM mentions Shepard getting some "closure" wrt Ash/Kaidan in his Horizon report. I can't quite recall if this was the case, or if I'm mixing it with some squaddie loyalty mission report.

If it was the case, it's just one more way in which the relationship (romantic or otherwise) with K & A is acknowledged in the game, but the relationship with Liara is swept under the rug (there been no mentions about Shepard getting "closure" with Liara in TIM's reports).

[WilliamShatner]

The TIM says something about not letting past relationships get in the way and Shepard can respond with "none of your damn business" or something.

[Mox Ruuga]

WilliamShatner wrote...

The TIM says something about not letting past relationships get in the way and Shepard can respond with "none of your damn business" or something.

Is that after Horizon, or in the beginning?

Cuz if it's after Horizon... yet another "nod" the Ash/Kaidan romance/platonic relationship gets over Liara's. I only remembered the written report having a mention about Shepard being "free" to concentrate on the mission now, or something like that. Will have to keep an eye out for it in my next playthrough.

It's kinda amusing, being reduced to comparing really tiny things like this. But even "barely there" continuity nods are better than nothing at all.

[Nightwriter]

Yes, it was after Horizon.



But Illium wasn’t a plot mission like Horizon. It was a recruitment location. Horizon was a stand alone thing, Illium had Thane, Samara, Miranda’s sidequest, plus Liara….



In other words, Liara sorta got buried under a lot of other stuff.

[Sharn01]

Thats hardly an excuse for a lack of acknowledging the romance.

Ash/Kaiden romance may not have been handled the way people wanted it handled, but at least it was in the game, Liara's romance was ignored in almost every conceivable way.

Modifié par Sharn01, 11 février 2010 - 08:29 .

[Mox Ruuga]

Nightwriter wrote...

Yes, it was after Horizon.

But Illium wasn’t a plot mission like Horizon. It was a recruitment location. Horizon was a stand alone thing, Illium had Thane, Samara, Miranda’s sidequest, plus Liara….

In other words, Liara sorta got buried under a lot of other stuff.

Doesn't excuse the absolute shambles that was the "2nd act" of the three act Shepard / Liara romance.

She didn't just "sorta" get buried. It was very deliberate.

At best, we will have to pay extra to get any romance content for her in the form of DLC. Otherwise, we will have to wait two more years.

[IceTitan]

I can sort of understand the change in Liara, guessing the time she spent chasing after Shepards body had been rough and harsh.
 
Something else happened that made her turn the way she is. Just hope if there is a DLC in relation to it, that it fills in all the gaps.

Because the way it sounds it's like not only is she angry at the shadow broker for trying to sell your body, but she wants to literally destroy him/her. Which suggests something bigger happened during the 2 years.
But yeah does feel a bit short changed the way it's made, maybe they had cut things during development, and decided to leave it out for DLC. 

[Sharn01]

Well, as bad of a job that they did with Liara, her character changes are with in the realm of possibitly, its a stretch but its there.



The infuriating part is after she tells Shep about her need for revenge and the Shadow Broker and everything else, what does Shep have to say about it.



Talk to you later Liara...



Yep, cant ask her anything, tell her how you feel, nada, its the perfect place in the game to have a big lover's quarrel, yet, nothing.

[Adon 9]

I definitely agree with the gist several have made that the really grating thing about it is not so much Liara's change (not thrilled with that, but hey) but the complete inability to react to it. The whole 'Liara is being recorded/watched' thing seems sort of forced when she has no problem discussing hacking stuff, plotting to kill an observer, actually KILLING said observer, and so on. At least with FemShep it sounds like when she says "I'll talk to you later" there's a strong tone that she's only putting it on hold for the moment rather than letting it drop altogether (just a vibe I got from Jennifer Hale's tone when she says it).