1679 réponses à ce sujet

[AndroLeonidas]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Ultra Prism wrote...

everytime i saw liara i got pissed at bioware .... come on get off ur lazy asses and gives us some solid ... it is apparent that is broken ... what happen, did voice actor for liara left or something, huge technical bug ... or something weird like bioware says " ahh oh well thats good enough" :S so far no dev responded, i bet they are finding this quite worrying. ...

Nah, as much as we'd like to think Liara's an important part, the horrid job they did in writing her for ME2 shows her low position on the totem pole.

If you look at the threads the devs actually respond to, such as class balancing issues, you can see which issues interest them. For example, the nerfed biotics (all those adept threads), the planet scanning, and the perceived uselessness of the Vanguard. I'm betting all these issues have already been flagged as concerns to be looked at when the real development of ME3 starts.

Yep.  We're up to around 120 pages when you combine the two big Liara threads and not one dev posts addressing our concerns.

Silence is deafening.

Way I see it is there is only one reason for that.

They know they screwed up or there is a big DLC coming that we don't know abouyt that addresses this issue altogether.

Take your pick.

Personally... I think they screwed up the writing, or they did it on purpose to make you cheat. In either case they better have something big planned or buying ME3 will not occur at midnight as it did with ME2.

[Nozybidaj]

Littledoom wrote...

I would say they screwed up the writing in many places, but there are good parts too. Liara is not one of them and it need fixing or at least some explanation. I was worried already in the start of the development from what I heard but went with fate. Got kicked in the face so I'll be more careful before buying ME3, I wont preorder this time.

I feel the same way.  The removal of the LI's from ME2 was such a hair brained decision, whoever actually thought that was a good way to continue the trilogy shouldn't ever be allowed to continue making video games. :innocent:


For myself, I do feel that BW insulted the folks who liked the ME1 LI's, I would have been all for adding new one for folks that didn't and to add more variety for multiple play throughs but the complete exclusion of the old ones is unacceptable.  I will be higly dubious of buying any BW products in the future until they do something to make up for this.  I won't be getting the DA:O DLC nor the exansion, I'll certainly not get any ME DLC until I know for certain what direction they intend to go with Liara and I don't really see any reason to get ME3 if these issues aren't resolved prior to then.

[Sphynx118]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Littledoom wrote...

I would say they screwed up the writing in many places, but there are good parts too. Liara is not one of them and it need fixing or at least some explanation. I was worried already in the start of the development from what I heard but went with fate. Got kicked in the face so I'll be more careful before buying ME3, I wont preorder this time.

I feel the same way.  The removal of the LI's from ME2 was such a hair brained decision, whoever actually thought that was a good way to continue the trilogy shouldn't ever be allowed to continue making video games. :innocent:


For myself, I do feel that BW insulted the folks who liked the ME1 LI's, I would have been all for adding new one for folks that didn't and to add more variety for multiple play throughs but the complete exclusion of the old ones is unacceptable.  I will be higly dubious of buying any BW products in the future until they do something to make up for this.  I won't be getting the DA:O DLC nor the exansion, I'll certainly not get any ME DLC until I know for certain what direction they intend to go with Liara and I don't really see any reason to get ME3 if these issues aren't resolved prior to then.

Well arent you sticking it to the man

[Sphynx118]

Doesnt everyone get the "this is why im so cold because i couldnt let you go" lines? Even if you didnt romance her in me 1? Never found out since i couldnt resist romancing her on any of my me 1 saves.
If everyone gets it then thats just bull**** from biowares writing staff

Modifié par Sphynx118, 13 février 2010 - 02:52 .

[Nozybidaj]

Thanks for the bump. Woot, thread count +1.

[Nozybidaj]

Sphynx118 wrote...

Doesnt everyone get the "this is why im so cold because i couldnt let you go" lines? Even if you didnt romance her in me 1? Never found out since i couldnt resist not romancing her on any of my me 1 saves.
If everyone gets it then thats just bull**** from biowares writing staff

Yes, everyone gets the exact same dialouge from her in ME2.

[Sphynx118]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Doesnt everyone get the "this is why im so cold because i couldnt let you go" lines? Even if you didnt romance her in me 1? Never found out since i couldnt resist not romancing her on any of my me 1 saves.
If everyone gets it then thats just bull**** from biowares writing staff

Yes, everyone gets the exact same dialouge from her in ME2.

Lol never expected such a thing from bioware -.- The ashley lovers atleast get a mail saying that she doesnt want to lose you again, All we get is a kiss? How hard would it be for bioware to make it so that if you romanced her you get a unique part of dialogue? Imagine the whine if ashley/kaidan sent that mail to everyone even if they didnt romance her

[bjdbwea]

How hard would it be to let Liara send you an email at the very least? Hey, they could even deliver that with a patch, not even need new VOs.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 13 février 2010 - 04:12 .

[Nozybidaj]

Sphynx118 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Doesnt everyone get the "this is why im so cold because i couldnt let you go" lines? Even if you didnt romance her in me 1? Never found out since i couldnt resist not romancing her on any of my me 1 saves.
If everyone gets it then thats just bull**** from biowares writing staff

Yes, everyone gets the exact same dialouge from her in ME2.

Lol never expected such a thing from bioware -.- The ashley lovers atleast get a mail saying that she doesnt want to lose you again, All we get is a kiss? How hard would it be for bioware to make it so that if you romanced her you get a unique part of dialogue? Imagine the whine if ashley/kaidan sent that mail to everyone even if they didnt romance her

Not to mention that Kelly takes time to ask me how my meeting with Ashley went and never mentions a word about Liara even when I romanced Liara.

[Outsider edge]

Well for me all ME2 LI's were very poorly implemented. However Liara is by far the one that get's ackowledged the least. It's like Liara's "kiss" versus Ashley/Kaiden's hug + convo's with Joker and Kelly and the subsequent e-mails.



That said Liara at least has an open-ending were BW can fit in a nice quest-line with the Shadowbroker. Finger's crossed that's the angle they're aiming for....

[Sphynx118]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Doesnt everyone get the "this is why im so cold because i couldnt let you go" lines? Even if you didnt romance her in me 1? Never found out since i couldnt resist not romancing her on any of my me 1 saves.
If everyone gets it then thats just bull**** from biowares writing staff

Yes, everyone gets the exact same dialouge from her in ME2.

Lol never expected such a thing from bioware -.- The ashley lovers atleast get a mail saying that she doesnt want to lose you again, All we get is a kiss? How hard would it be for bioware to make it so that if you romanced her you get a unique part of dialogue? Imagine the whine if ashley/kaidan sent that mail to everyone even if they didnt romance her

Not to mention that Kelly takes time to ask me how my meeting with Ashley went and never mentions a word about Liara even when I romanced Liara.

Indeed. That bothered me alot. I was looking forward to kellys comments on her but nooooooo.
Bioware didnt just drop the ball with Liara.
They dropped it, torched it then scored on the wrong goal while going "LOLOLOLOL"

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

bjdbwea wrote...

How hard would it be to let Liara send you an email at the very least? Hey, the could even deliver that with a patch, not even need new VOs.

Exactly. Forget that cerberus network crap, put some e-mails in the game to keep it going. The e-mail system was a really cheap but (provided its well written) excellent way of showing life goes on after Shepard completes a mission for someone/some affected by the mission. Getting say the email from the inspector on Illium was quite nice for example. I quite liked her.

Or stopping that young punk on Omega from getting massacred along with the rest of the mercs.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 13 février 2010 - 03:28 .

[Sphynx118]

The writer dropped the ball on alot of things im afraid. If you look at the "Did the council go braindead or just bioware" thread you will even see an actual bioware employee agreeing that the writers may not have had their heads screwed on straight when doing certain parts of me 2

Modifié par Sphynx118, 13 février 2010 - 03:49 .

[Derumiel]

bjdbwea wrote...

How hard would it be to let Liara send you an email at the very least? Hey, the could even deliver that with a patch, not even need new VOs.

Agreed.


I also liked the Mails. They showed that you really did something in the universe and i was kind of disappointed that Liara didn't write me....

[Nozybidaj]

Derumiel wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

How hard would it be to let Liara send you an email at the very least? Hey, the could even deliver that with a patch, not even need new VOs.

Agreed.


I also liked the Mails. They showed that you really did something in the universe and i was kind of disappointed that Liara didn't write me....

Well, at the least it would have been "something".

[Squiggles 1171]

I aint trolling, but I reckon the reason you don't go see her straight away is because, well, who would put someone through losing their lover twice? She loses you after the Normandy is dissintergrated, so it would be pretty terrible to go straight back 2 years later, kiss her and say "IM ALIVE! Isn't it wonderful? Oh but I'm going on a suicide mission to the center of the Universe, and the chances of surving are slim. Just thought I'd get up ya hopes of having me back" xD

But still. What the ****?!
That woman was crzy obsessed with taking down the shadow broker! She didn't even sound like the same Liara.

Ah well, I was waiting to cheat on her anyways xD this just gave me an excuse.

[bjdbwea]

Exactly. I've even made a thread dedicated to the emails, because I think it's too cheap to give out all side quests with simple text boxes. Yet the system itself was a great addition, no doubt. Why not use it more? It does solve the problem with needing VOs. At least you get one email from Ashley and Kaidan. Why not more, I ask? A very cheap way to "continue" (as the developers promised) their romance through ME 2, but a way nevertheless. Liara doesn't even send you one single email, not even before you start your final mission? Would have made the scene with Shepard holding the picture even more impressive, but no...

Modifié par bjdbwea, 13 février 2010 - 04:25 .

[Nozybidaj]

Squiggles 1171 wrote...

I aint trolling, but I reckon the reason you don't go see her straight away is because, well, who would put someone through losing their lover twice? She loses you after the Normandy is dissintergrated, so it would be pretty terrible to go straight back 2 years later, kiss her and say "IM ALIVE! Isn't it wonderful? Oh but I'm going on a suicide mission to the center of the Universe, and the chances of surving are slim. Just thought I'd get up ya hopes of having me back" xD

But still. What the ****?!
That woman was crzy obsessed with taking down the shadow broker! She didn't even sound like the same Liara.

Ah well, I was waiting to cheat on her anyways xD this just gave me an excuse.

Something about the whole suicide mission being used as an excuse to discard the old LI's has always bothered me.  The fact that Shepard never saw it as a suicide mission.  Even as far back as the E3 (I think it was E3) video with Hudson where he says, paraphrased, "everyone says it is a suicide mission, but as Commander Shepard you are going to prove them wrong", even in game Shepard makes comments to the effet that he plans to come out alive.  The fact that you can't import a save into ME3 with him dead makes a very tangible point that it is not a suicide mission.  If you do die, game over, you can't continue without living.

To me Shepard never saw it as a real suicide mission.  Just another save the galaxy day for him.

Meh, anyway, spilled milk and all that.

[Fyk0]

Sharn01 wrote...

Not sure if I am glad or not about that. Makes me feel better that they did not single out Liara, but it is just another example of them not giving a damn about ME1 decision's.

Maybe part of the reason is if there was much bigger role with Liara, probably big majority who romanced Liara would ignore romancing new team members, and the new members wanted to put on highlights. Still, I feel the same Liara didn't have enough attention, especially who romanced her in ME1. Give us Liara DLC!
I got my hopes up Liara got major role in ME3. Otherwise it would be... retarded.

[jbauck]

In order to not drive myself completely freakin' insane, I'm just going to assume the following: Liara is short-changed in ME2 because she's such an important character she's getting her own DLC and Kaidan/Ashley do not. So, no mention of the romance whatsoever, because a) it will be in the DLC and by some bizarre logic, the argument could be made that Kaidan/Ashley get a romance mention in the core ME2 balances with Liara's romance mention being ONLY in the DLC.



Not that I agree this was the best way of handling things. But it's the only thing I can think of that would fix the problem (and I SO want it fixed) now that ME2 is out.



That said, for ALL the ME1 romances, the most glaring omission is the great big lack of this:



Random ME2 Squaddie: Gee, Shep, are you hitting on me?

Shep: Uhhh ... no. I'm still hung up on Liara/Kaidan/Ashley. I'm just genuinely someone who likes to get to know my crew. So could you put your shirt back on? You're making me uncomfortable.

Random ME2 Squaddie: But Liara/Kaidan/Ashley has been so MEAN to you! And I'm not wearing a shirt! Why aren't you jumping me?

Shep: Well, I was dead for two years. I don't expect to be dead for two years and find that my favorite person in the galaxy has just been sitting around doing nothing but pining for me. But once I finish kicking some Collector ****, I'm going to see if we can work things out.

Random ME2 Squaddie: *reluctantly dons a shirt*

[Nozybidaj]

jbauck wrote...

In order to not drive myself completely freakin' insane, I'm just going to assume the following: Liara is short-changed in ME2 because she's such an important character she's getting her own DLC and Kaidan/Ashley do not. So, no mention of the romance whatsoever, because a) it will be in the DLC and by some bizarre logic, the argument could be made that Kaidan/Ashley get a romance mention in the core ME2 balances with Liara's romance mention being ONLY in the DLC.

Not that I agree this was the best way of handling things. But it's the only thing I can think of that would fix the problem (and I SO want it fixed) now that ME2 is out.

That said, for ALL the ME1 romances, the most glaring omission is the great big lack of this:

Random ME2 Squaddie: Gee, Shep, are you hitting on me?
Shep: Uhhh ... no. I'm still hung up on Liara/Kaidan/Ashley. I'm just genuinely someone who likes to get to know my crew. So could you put your shirt back on? You're making me uncomfortable.
Random ME2 Squaddie: But Liara/Kaidan/Ashley has been so MEAN to you! And I'm not wearing a shirt! Why aren't you jumping me?
Shep: Well, I was dead for two years. I don't expect to be dead for two years and find that my favorite person in the galaxy has just been sitting around doing nothing but pining for me. But once I finish kicking some Collector ****, I'm going to see if we can work things out.
Random ME2 Squaddie: *reluctantly dons a shirt*

Agreed.  I sooooo wanted to tell Miranda "I'm flattered and all, but you are no Liara."

[WilliamShatner]

Nozybidaj wrote...

jbauck wrote...

In order to not drive myself completely freakin' insane, I'm just going to assume the following: Liara is short-changed in ME2 because she's such an important character she's getting her own DLC and Kaidan/Ashley do not. So, no mention of the romance whatsoever, because a) it will be in the DLC and by some bizarre logic, the argument could be made that Kaidan/Ashley get a romance mention in the core ME2 balances with Liara's romance mention being ONLY in the DLC.

Not that I agree this was the best way of handling things. But it's the only thing I can think of that would fix the problem (and I SO want it fixed) now that ME2 is out.

That said, for ALL the ME1 romances, the most glaring omission is the great big lack of this:

Random ME2 Squaddie: Gee, Shep, are you hitting on me?
Shep: Uhhh ... no. I'm still hung up on Liara/Kaidan/Ashley. I'm just genuinely someone who likes to get to know my crew. So could you put your shirt back on? You're making me uncomfortable.
Random ME2 Squaddie: But Liara/Kaidan/Ashley has been so MEAN to you! And I'm not wearing a shirt! Why aren't you jumping me?
Shep: Well, I was dead for two years. I don't expect to be dead for two years and find that my favorite person in the galaxy has just been sitting around doing nothing but pining for me. But once I finish kicking some Collector ****, I'm going to see if we can work things out.
Random ME2 Squaddie: *reluctantly dons a shirt*

Agreed.  I sooooo wanted to tell Miranda "I'm flattered and all, but you are no Liara."

Pfft, she's not even a Sha'ira.

[Mox Ruuga]

Sphynx118 wrote...

The writer dropped the ball on alot of things im afraid. If you look at the "Did the council go braindead or just bioware" thread you will even see an actual bioware employee agreeing that the writers may not have had their heads screwed on straight when doing certain parts of me 2

Yeah, sort of puts things in perspective when a dev breaks ranks like that with the writers.

The council thing was the Liara 180 turn character assassination once again, only on a galactic rulership level. If I were Shep or Anderson, I'd start worrying if the councillors had been indoctrinated... Perhaps a sizeable piece of debris from Sovereign was mounted as a trophy on the council chamber wall, and it still had lingering malign influence?