1679 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

The whole awakening thing is annoying. As well as the Liara, but I find the Awakening thing more game breaking :/

[The Questioning Motive]

Nozybidaj wrote...

The Questioning Motive wrote...

Personally Mass Effect 2 is the better of the series, better acting, the story is pretty nice. I wish they did more about Liara, but you know, there's always room for improvement specifically the reason why there's DLC. I'm going to say this now, I'd rather give my money to Bioware than to any other gaming company, of course everyone will nitpick about the game. It's like if you jump off a cliff, you'll complain that the ground is too soft, or your legs aren't broken enough. I understand that there's going to be complaints, but Christ, they're trying their hardest, there's 3 million people who bought this game, they can't answer everything!

Lots of stuff carried over. There's probably going to be more stuff coming out, specifically things for the romance subplots. But time can only tell. Maybe a better written Liara, but for right now, we just need to play the game enjoy what we have and expect more.

This isn't like nitpicking about helmets not being removable, this was a core part of what made our Shepards unique and what created our emotional attachment to the game, the characters, and the ME universe.  I'm not asking them to answer "everything" I'd just be happy to have the core motivation for my Shepard and my love of ME1 to be in the game.  I don't think that was too much to ask for.

Clocking in at 40 hours, I still didn't get everything done. Even if you did everything, you had to make about two or three swaps on the game discs. Meaning that even if you bothered with all the meticulous quests and such, they had a lot on their hands and wanted to get the game out by this date. Blaming them for their mistake of leaving out a certain romance subplot isn't their doing, the game is just immense, and if they wanted to get it out to us, they had to leave a few things out and add to the game via DLC. This isn't the full game that we bought. This is a vast amount of the game that we bought. I'm sure they realized that Liara was left in the dark and they're making amends. I'm not picking a fight, I'm just saying, knowing Bioware, we'll be able to have our subplots and such.

[Nozybidaj]

The Questioning Motive wrote...
 I'm not picking a fight, I'm just saying, knowing Bioware, we'll be able to have our subplots and such.

I understand, I'm not either.  On point though BW DLC has been fairly underwhelming to this point and there is no indication at all that they either plan DLC for the missing romances nor even see it as a problem.  Their absence from the game was clearly by design.

We'll see how good Awakenings is for DA.  I personally won't be getting it till I know the ME2 issues will be resolved properly, but it may serve as a small insight into what to expect for ME2 DLC.

These are not plots they can neatly pack into and wrap up with a 30 minute Brind Down the Sky/Warden's Keep DLC.  Well, at least not if they want to do them justice.

[The Questioning Motive]

Nozybidaj wrote...

The Questioning Motive wrote...
 I'm not picking a fight, I'm just saying, knowing Bioware, we'll be able to have our subplots and such.

I understand, I'm not either.  On point though BW DLC has been fairly underwhelming to this point and there is no indication at all that they either plan DLC for the missing romances nor even see it as a problem.  Their absence from the game was clearly by design.

We'll see how good Awakenings is for DA.  I personally won't be getting it till I know the ME2 issues will be resolved properly, but it may serve as a small insight into what to expect for ME2 DLC.

These are not plots they can neatly pack into and wrap up with a 30 minute Brind Down the Sky/Warden's Keep DLC.  Well, at least not if they want to do them justice.

Of course not, but at least they could give us closure about Liara's feelings. Whether she just doesn't care anymore or she boards the Normandy and they spend time to gether, not everything has to be violent, right?

[Nozybidaj]

The Questioning Motive wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

These are not plots they can neatly pack into and wrap up with a 30 minute Brind Down the Sky/Warden's Keep DLC.  Well, at least not if they want to do them justice.

Of course not, but at least they could give us closure about Liara's feelings. Whether she just doesn't care anymore or she boards the Normandy and they spend time to gether, not everything has to be violent, right?

No, but I would expect whatever the expansion/DLC is, it will involve lots of randomly shooting stuff.   And for the record, I don't want closure, I want continuation.

[The Questioning Motive]

Nozybidaj wrote...

The Questioning Motive wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

These are not plots they can neatly pack into and wrap up with a 30 minute Brind Down the Sky/Warden's Keep DLC.  Well, at least not if they want to do them justice.

Of course not, but at least they could give us closure about Liara's feelings. Whether she just doesn't care anymore or she boards the Normandy and they spend time to gether, not everything has to be violent, right?

No, but I would expect whatever the expansion/DLC is, it will involve lots of randomly shooting stuff.   And for the record, I don't want closure, I want continuation.

Meant to say continuation too. I meant closure in case Shepard cheated.

[Nozybidaj]

The Questioning Motive wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

The Questioning Motive wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

These are not plots they can neatly pack into and wrap up with a 30 minute Brind Down the Sky/Warden's Keep DLC.  Well, at least not if they want to do them justice.

Of course not, but at least they could give us closure about Liara's feelings. Whether she just doesn't care anymore or she boards the Normandy and they spend time to gether, not everything has to be violent, right?

No, but I would expect whatever the expansion/DLC is, it will involve lots of randomly shooting stuff.   And for the record, I don't want closure, I want continuation.

Meant to say continuation too. I meant closure in case Shepard cheated.

I figured, just being clear.

[The Questioning Motive]

Nozybidaj wrote...

The Questioning Motive wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

The Questioning Motive wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

These are not plots they can neatly pack into and wrap up with a 30 minute Brind Down the Sky/Warden's Keep DLC.  Well, at least not if they want to do them justice.

Of course not, but at least they could give us closure about Liara's feelings. Whether she just doesn't care anymore or she boards the Normandy and they spend time to gether, not everything has to be violent, right?

No, but I would expect whatever the expansion/DLC is, it will involve lots of randomly shooting stuff.   And for the record, I don't want closure, I want continuation.

Meant to say continuation too. I meant closure in case Shepard cheated.

I figured, just being clear.

I do think if you don't have a LI in the second one and you got with Ashley or Liara, when you're doing the suicide mission, it is prety sad almost when you look at her picture.

[Nozybidaj]

The Questioning Motive wrote...

I do think if you don't have a LI in the second one and you got with Ashley or Liara, when you're doing the suicide mission, it is prety sad almost when you look at her picture.

I suppose it could have been if there had been build up to it.  By that point though I had already been so thoroughly disappointed I just wanted the game to be over and didn't really care. /shrug

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Nozybidaj wrote...

I suppose it could have been if there had been build up to it.  By that point though I had already been so thoroughly disappointed I just wanted the game to be over and didn't really care. /shrug

Yeah, by then LIaras ****ty cameo role had already tainted my "emotional investment" in the entire game beyond repair. It has its nice side to it, but by then I was just too cynical and bitter about the whole game, and could only muster a sarcastic "well, at leat they gave us THAT!"

[Nozybidaj]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

I suppose it could have been if there had been build up to it.  By that point though I had already been so thoroughly disappointed I just wanted the game to be over and didn't really care. /shrug

Yeah, by then LIaras ****ty cameo role had already tainted my "emotional investment" in the entire game beyond repair. It has its nice side to it, but by then I was just too cynical and bitter about the whole game, and could only muster a sarcastic "well, at leat they gave us THAT!"

LOL, exactly.

[Sigilius]

I really can't believe they felt that was a legitimate reunion. It's obvious that the characters act completely, well... out of character! Liara is too good a character (so sweet and awkward, at least, in ME) to omit from ME3 (The Goddess forbid!), and she definately deserves an expansive DLC chapter of her own (All LI's do!). We deserve this, Bioware, for loving your work so much! Liara forever!

[Forest03]

Yep, Liara has turned into a nervous, jittery wreck obsessed with tracking down the Shadow Broker. Her threats and boasting seem nothing more than bravado.



She needs a good, long hug... followed by a good scolding.



Then again, as far as ME2 is concerned, [randomly selecting a high percentage...] 80% of the game's narrative was insignificant garbage, filler, a time sink.



-- Ashley/Kaidan's participation is reduced to a short meeting and an email.



-- Liara's little side quest is just boring. Her rise as an information broker, even though she does have the background and ability, is barely substantiated. It's just suddenly thrust upon the player.



-- We are sent galavanting across the galaxy to recruit 11 team members, encouraged to complete their personal missions, and yet only 4* of them have anything significant to contribute to the ME game world's politics, intelligence, infrastructure, or even more importantly - the war against the Reapers and the Geth. *(Tali's research and experience with the Geth; Mordin's work with the Genophage; Legion's mission to rewrite the Geth; Miranda's connections with Cerberus intelligence.) Everyone else is expendable. Though I might have affinities for some of their designs or personal stories, they have done nothing to influence the outcome of ME2, let alone the direction of possible future events in ME3. Why give us a selection of so many characters when all they may ever be is cannon fodder for the Suicide Mission? (Yeah, I achieved "No One Left Behind" anyways, but that's just my gaming principle.) We might as well have hired an army of Mercs. Doing that wouldn't have made a difference in the amount of success in the final mission, and it certainly would have saved several hours of gameplay.



Yes, BioWare implemented several improvements in the game mechanics, environments, missions, and immersion in ME2. Regardless, the integration of the characters into the main plot is crap compared to ME1. Hell, it's barely even there! They dropped the ball not only on Liara, but nearly all the new characters and the plot progression as well.

[Nozybidaj]

Forest03 wrote...

Yep, Liara has turned into a nervous, jittery wreck obsessed with tracking down the Shadow Broker. Her threats and boasting seem nothing more than bravado.

She needs a good, long hug... followed by a good scolding.

Then again, as far as ME2 is concerned, [randomly selecting a high percentage...] 80% of the game's narrative was insignificant garbage, filler, a time sink.

-- Ashley/Kaidan's participation is reduced to a short meeting and an email.

-- Liara's little side quest is just boring. Her rise as an information broker, even though she does have the background and ability, is barely substantiated. It's just suddenly thrust upon the player.

-- We are sent galavanting across the galaxy to recruit 11 team members, encouraged to complete their personal missions, and yet only 4* of them have anything significant to contribute to the ME game world's politics, intelligence, infrastructure, or even more importantly - the war against the Reapers and the Geth. *(Tali's research and experience with the Geth; Mordin's work with the Genophage; Legion's mission to rewrite the Geth; Miranda's connections with Cerberus intelligence.) Everyone else is expendable. Though I might have affinities for some of their designs or personal stories, they have done nothing to influence the outcome of ME2, let alone the direction of possible future events in ME3. Why give us a selection of so many characters when all they may ever be is cannon fodder for the Suicide Mission? (Yeah, I achieved "No One Left Behind" anyways, but that's just my gaming principle.) We might as well have hired an army of Mercs. Doing that wouldn't have made a difference in the amount of success in the final mission, and it certainly would have saved several hours of gameplay.

Yes, BioWare implemented several improvements in the game mechanics, environments, missions, and immersion in ME2. Regardless, the integration of the characters into the main plot is crap compared to ME1. Hell, it's barely even there! They dropped the ball not only on Liara, but nearly all the new characters and the plot progression as well.

I agree, everything we did for the loyalty missions (most of them, though I disagree with you on Miranda) seemed like a waste of time.  It would have saved a lot of time to just hire a merc band and throw them at the Collector base.  That's pretty much all we did with this group anyway.  Aside from the Tech Specialist (Tali), Fire Team Leader (Garrus), and Biotic Specialist (could have easily been done by Liara).  The rest of the team was completely expendable in the suicide mission.  This same group even gave you two of the three ship upgrades you needed.  The crew basically had no purpose other than for BW to try their hand at a particular story format.

If they had brought the original crew back and actually devetoed the time and care to character progression that they put into character introductions for the new crew we would have ended up with some of the deepest and best developed characters of any video game series I've ever played.  Add in a few of the new ones to round out the group and you have the best game BW ever put out.

Why they intentionally decided to cut all emotional attachment that was created in the first game is, well, dumb.  There's no other way to put it.

[Nozybidaj]

Littledoom wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Why they intentionally decided to cut all emotional attachment that was created in the first game is, well, dumb.  There's no other way to put it.

I could probably come up with a few words beside dumb, but I don't want to get baned

Yeah, that was as politically correct as I could be.  It wasn't the first word I wanted to use.

[crimzontearz]

so once again WTF was the damn point of it all? Romancing Liara..going out of your way to cheat and romance Tali..turning down Zero and Miranda...seriously



what



was



the point?



the most important and touching decisions and actions that directly affect Shepard (our love interests) are just brushed aside and handled SO bad that aside from a kiss there is no recognition about them at ALL



so what in the next DLC/chapter we start again from square one? Miranda goes to live with her sister? Zero becomes a teacher for biotic kids? Tali becomes an admiral? NONE of them is available for ME3 and we are stuck with Samara per haps and whoever else they decide to tag on ME3?



am I the only one that, if that was the case, would see ANY emotional investment in those characters totally and completely WASTED?



is that what Bioware was aiming for? if so Mission Accomplished





are you telling me NO ONE during staff mettings rose their hands and said "uhm, you know guys I think we are gonna ****** a LOT of people off this way. the way she is written this character does not even seem like Liara and the reunion just does not hold up to the other emotional moments we have in the game (tali hug)"



seriousoly? no one objected OR those who did were sent to get coffee and laughed at?



or was it objective all along? to give us really no other viable choice but to abandon the LI from ME1 bd give us a glimpse of how royally screwed we will be in the ME2 expansions and ME3?

[GnusmasTHX]

Nah, Liara and I will have a family and live out the rest of our lives on space-cow ranch back on Earth.

[Nozybidaj]

crimzontearz wrote...
am I the only one that, if that was the case, would see ANY emotional investment in those characters totally and completely WASTED?

You most certainly are not the only one.

are you telling me NO ONE during staff mettings rose their hands and said "uhm, you know guys I think we are gonna ****** a LOT of people off this way. the way she is written this character does not even seem like Liara and the reunion just does not hold up to the other emotional moments we have in the game (tali hug)"

seriousoly? no one objected OR those who did were sent to get coffee and laughed at?

I often wonder this myself.  I assume it was hammered through by someone in a position of decision making, someone that probably has no idea just exactly how much these characters actually meant to people.

That's how things work where ever you go, in any company.  The people that have the final say are often the ones most out of touch with what they actually need to deliver.  If people on down the line aren't willing or not allowed to speak up, or if the people down the line are not bringing up relevant info or are giving biased info, well this thread is what you end up with.

[crimzontearz]

Nozybidaj wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
am I the only one that, if that was the case, would see ANY emotional investment in those characters totally and completely WASTED?

You most certainly are not the only one.

are you telling me NO ONE during staff mettings rose their hands and said "uhm, you know guys I think we are gonna ****** a LOT of people off this way. the way she is written this character does not even seem like Liara and the reunion just does not hold up to the other emotional moments we have in the game (tali hug)"

seriousoly? no one objected OR those who did were sent to get coffee and laughed at?

I often wonder this myself.  I assume it was hammered through by someone in a position of decision making, someone that probably has no idea just exactly how much these characters actually meant to people.

That's how things work where ever you go, in any company.  The people that have the final say are often the ones most out of touch with what they actually need to deliver.  If people on down the line aren't willing or not allowed to speak up, or if the people down the line are not bringing up relevant info or are giving biased info, well this thread is what you end up with.

the saddest part is no direct answer

we get a "we really would like to get cameos from all but we cannot"

uhm...oh really?

if I remember correctly the question was "why is Liara (and the LIs in general) so poorly handled while being one of the central parts of our Shepard's life?" and not  "why hasn't EVERY ME1 character been given a cameo?"

then again, to my knowledge, as awesome as they are Bioware, like every other company, does not answer the tough questions directly.......

[crimzontearz]

Littledoom wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

then again, to my knowledge, as awesome as they are Bioware, like every other company, does not answer the tough questions directly.......

Probably becouse they know the answers will ****** off people even more.

at least they would get some honesty points......

[Nozybidaj]

Littledoom wrote...
They totally screwed the ME1 fan base over in so many ways it's frightening.

All the writing and characterizations issues aside, I agree.  Removing the ME1 LI's in a lot of ways feels like a big middle finger is given to the ME fans and most especially the fans of the ME1 LI's.  I understand not everyone liked them, and I had no issue with adding new ones in ME2, but just blatantly removing and ignoring the old ones can only be interpreted as BW deliberately trolling the old fans in favor of the new ones.

What happened to a 3 part romance over the course of the trilogy?  What happened to being able to continue the romance we started in the first game?