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[Sigilius]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

I have this sneaking suspicion that Bioware will continue to cater to certain other fan groups and character fandoms, in exclusion of the rest of us.

Liara's important ME3 role, for which she was supposedly kept out of the ME2 squad, might very well turn out to be just more information brokering from UnLiara. With slight optional legacy romance elements for those sad saps (I include myself as one) who still cling to her despite the Liara/Shepard clearly being the "wrong" choice in Bioware's opinion.

I pray this will not come to pass, and that Bioware will see or already sees (And is just holding out on us in order to build up suspense) that we love Liara, and I hope that our group, with the support of the Kaidan/Ash fans, comprises a large enough percentage of the fanbase in order to justify the loving return, to truly major effect, of our LI's. I would be stoked if ME3 totally revolved around our LI's (But not because of their deaths, Bioware! We don't need another reason to hate the Reapers, and you shouldn't use it as an excuse to cut them out!).

Seriously, though, I'd be totally cool with Liara and Shepard (Or whatever ME LI you had) to be in the later stages of a relationship, rather than the inital awkward attraction. I know it would be difficult to do, Bioware, but you don't have to turn them into some sort of proverbial 'ball and chain,' but rather an important part of Shepard's life. They can be his devoted LI and still kick a**!

[Nozybidaj]

Sigilius wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

I have this sneaking suspicion that Bioware will continue to cater to certain other fan groups and character fandoms, in exclusion of the rest of us.

Liara's important ME3 role, for which she was supposedly kept out of the ME2 squad, might very well turn out to be just more information brokering from UnLiara. With slight optional legacy romance elements for those sad saps (I include myself as one) who still cling to her despite the Liara/Shepard clearly being the "wrong" choice in Bioware's opinion.

I pray this will not come to pass, and that Bioware will see or already sees (And is just holding out on us in order to build up suspense) that we love Liara, and I hope that our group, with the support of the Kaidan/Ash fans, comprises a large enough percentage of the fanbase in order to justify the loving return, to truly major effect, of our LI's. I would be stoked if ME3 totally revolved around our LI's (But not because of their deaths, Bioware! We don't need another reason to hate the Reapers, and you shouldn't use it as an excuse to cut them out!).

Seriously, though, I'd be totally cool with Liara and Shepard (Or whatever ME LI you had) to be in the later stages of a relationship, rather than the inital awkward attraction. I know it would be difficult to do, Bioware, but you don't have to turn them into some sort of proverbial 'ball and chain,' but rather an important part of Shepard's life. They can be his devoted LI and still kick a**!

This is why we need a ME1 LI expansion for each of them.  If I have to go through ME3 just trying to repair the relationship after ME2 it will not only make me disappointed in ME3 but also hate ME2 even more.

[JPfanner]

Landing on Illium was like running a gauntlet of anticipation. I'd been all fired up to finally reunite with Liara, especially after being infuriated by TIM's pathetic lies about her and the bitter reunion with my friend Ashely on Horizon.

Right when you come out of the ship I was met by the Concierge who told me that Liara had paid my fees and was eager to see me. I ran into the rachni queen representative who thanked me and told me how the queen was doing. Then like twenty feet from her I ran into Gianna who was eager to see me and chatted a lot with me about old times and what I was doing now. So it's like you're in this warm haze of, "Wow, what I did in ME 1 DOES matter!" Then you meet Liara and you don't know what's going on and I just sat here staring at the screen thinking I'd missed something. So I reloaded and ran through all that again...and it was the same total confusion.

I shambled around the city like a zombie doing Liara's hacking mission, desperately hoping I just had to get that out of the way to talk with her. Ran into Conrad and that whole interaction re-ignited the feeling that surely there was something ahead. Then I did the Observer mission and was still confused. After several reloads I managed to figure out how to navigate her screwed up dialog tree. Then I just sat here thinking, "What?"

It is just totally insanely jarring that you meet the Concierge, rachni queen agent, Gianna, and Conrad all right there and any ONE of them has a more meaningful conversation with Shepard than the woman that defied the Shadow Broker, Collectors, and mercenaries just on the chance to have Shephard cheat death. And you need to either be lucky or reload a few times to even find out about her recovering your body.

Modifié par JPfanner, 14 février 2010 - 06:43 .

[KumoriOokami]

JPfanner wrote...

Landing on Illium was like running a gauntlet of anticipation. I'd been all fired up to finally reunite with Liara, especially after being infuriated by TIM's pathetic lies about her and the bitter reunion with my friend Ashely on Horizon.

Right when you come out of the ship I was met by the Concierge who told me that Liara had paid my fees and was eager to see me. I ran into the rachni queen representative who thanked me and told me how the queen was doing. Then like twenty feet from her I ran into Gianna who was eager to see me and chatted a lot with me about old times and what I was doing now. So it's like you're in this warm haze of, "Wow, what I did in ME 1 DOES matter!" Then you meet Liara and you don't know what's going on and I just sat here staring at the screen thinking I'd missed something. So I reloaded and ran through all that again...and it was the same total confusion.

I shambled around the city like a zombie doing Liara's hacking mission, desperately hoping I just had to get that out of the way to talk with her. Ran into Conrad and that whole interaction re-ignited the feeling that surely there was something ahead. Then I did the Observer mission and was still confused. After several reloads I managed to figure out how to navigate her screwed up dialog tree. Then I just sat here thinking, "What?"

It is just totally insanely jarring that you meet the Concierge, rachni queen agent, Gianna, and Conrad all right there and any ONE of them has a more meaningful conversation with Shepard than the woman that defied the Shadow Broker, Collectors, and mercenaries just on the chance to have Shephard cheat death. And you need to either be lucky or reload a few times to even find out about her recovering your body.

This is -exactly- how I felt.  Even relatively minor characters from ME1 were given more time put into them than Liara.  O.o  What the heck.  Thank you for wording how I felt about this so well.

[Nozybidaj]

JPfanner wrote...

Landing on Illium was like running a gauntlet of anticipation. I'd been all fired up to finally reunite with Liara, especially after being infuriated by TIM's pathetic lies about her and the bitter reunion with my friend Ashely on Horizon.

Right when you come out of the ship I was met by the Concierge who told me that Liara had paid my fees and was eager to see me. I ran into the rachni queen representative who thanked me and told me how the queen was doing. Then like twenty feet from her I ran into Gianna who was eager to see me and chatted a lot with me about old times and what I was doing now. So it's like you're in this warm haze of, "Wow, what I did in ME 1 DOES matter!" Then you meet Liara and you don't know what's going on and I just sat here staring at the screen thinking I'd missed something. So I reloaded and ran through all that again...and it was the same total confusion.

I shambled around the city like a zombie doing Liara's hacking mission, desperately hoping I just had to get that out of the way to talk with her. Ran into Conrad and that whole interaction re-ignited the feeling that surely there was something ahead. Then I did the Observer mission and was still confused. After several reloads I managed to figure out how to navigate her screwed up dialog tree. Then I just here thinking, "What?"

It is just totally insanely jarring that you meet the Concierge, rachni queen agent, Gianna, and Conrad all right there and any ONE of them has a more meaningful conversation with Shepard than the woman that defied the Shadow Broker, Collectors, and mercenaries just on the chance to have Shephard cheat death. And you need to either be lucky or reload a few times to even find out about her recovering your body.

Don't forget Shiala.  And don't forget the fact that all of these people are infintely happier to see Shepard, and Shepard infintely happier to see them than during his reunion with his former LI.  /sigh

Hell the random shop keepers in the Citadel are more excited to see Shepard than Liara was, and Shepard has more meaningful dialogue with a random Tuchanka mechanic than he does with Liara.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 14 février 2010 - 06:46 .

[Sigilius]

It's not too late. We can still salvage the Liara we all love. But the Shadow Broker stands in our way, and we need a DLC to bring him down, repair the relationship, and leave it on a positive note that says, "Hey, we've made a progress with our relationship since the end of ME1! Bring it on, ME3!"



I couldn't believe what had happened to her. When I heard her quote Benezia, my blood ran cold. I realized instantly what had occured. When the Concierge told me she was very anxious to see me, I thought I'd be able to sweep her up in my arms or... something! The Shadow Broker doesn't care that you have a boyfriend, Liara! Can't you at least say you love Shepard, if nothing else?

[Nozybidaj]

Sigilius wrote...

It's not too late. We can still salvage the Liara we all love. But the Shadow Broker stands in our way, and we need a DLC to bring him down, repair the relationship, and leave it on a positive note that says, "Hey, we've made a progress with our relationship since the end of ME1! Bring it on, ME3!"

I couldn't believe what had happened to her. When I heard her quote Benezia, my blood ran cold. I realized instantly what had occured. When the Concierge told me she was very anxious to see me, I thought I'd be able to sweep her up in my arms or... something! The Shadow Broker doesn't care that you have a boyfriend, Liara! Can't you at least say you love Shepard, if nothing else?

This, especially the DLC/Expansion part.  I think (hope) that if they have plans to do something with this it is going to be too big for DLC and will come as a boxed expansion.  Another 5 min hacking quest followed by a 20 min kill everything in this warehouse, see you in ME3, DLC just isn't going to cut it.

[Sigilius]

I agree, although a large-scale DLC is possible. Look what Oblivion did with the Shivering Isles (Off-topic). Still, we need to have faith that Bioware deliberately held out on us with the relationships. I have no doubt in my mind that they realize just how ridiculous it would be to call it a Three-part epic love story if the second part contains... that. They must have a trick up their sleeve. There's no way they can't realize how bad ME2 is for the old LI's (And all LI's in general, because the new ones are only getting a two-part story, if even that!). They care about quality! Back me up, Bioware!

[KumoriOokami]

Sigilius wrote...

I agree, although a large-scale DLC is possible. Look what Oblivion did with the Shivering Isles (Off-topic). Still, we need to have faith that Bioware deliberately held out on us with the relationships. I have no doubt in my mind that they realize just how ridiculous it would be to call it a Three-part epic love story if the second part contains... that. They must have a trick up their sleeve. There's no way they can't realize how bad ME2 is for the old LI's (And all LI's in general, because the new ones are only getting a two-part story, if even that!). They care about quality! Back me up, Bioware!

True, Shivering Isles was amazing, debatably even better than the original game.  I hope they can do something half that good with any of the DLC for ME2.  

I guess something that might be telling is what they are able to do with the DA expansion?

[Nozybidaj]

Sigilius wrote...

I agree, although a large-scale DLC is possible. Look what Oblivion did with the Shivering Isles (Off-topic). Still, we need to have faith that Bioware deliberately held out on us with the relationships. I have no doubt in my mind that they realize just how ridiculous it would be to call it a Three-part epic love story if the second part contains... that. They must have a trick up their sleeve. There's no way they can't realize how bad ME2 is for the old LI's (And all LI's in general, because the new ones are only getting a two-part story, if even that!). They care about quality! Back me up, Bioware!

At this point, I want nothing more than for BW to prove you right.

[Nozybidaj]

KumoriOokami wrote...

Sigilius wrote...

I agree, although a large-scale DLC is possible. Look what Oblivion did with the Shivering Isles (Off-topic). Still, we need to have faith that Bioware deliberately held out on us with the relationships. I have no doubt in my mind that they realize just how ridiculous it would be to call it a Three-part epic love story if the second part contains... that. They must have a trick up their sleeve. There's no way they can't realize how bad ME2 is for the old LI's (And all LI's in general, because the new ones are only getting a two-part story, if even that!). They care about quality! Back me up, Bioware!

True, Shivering Isles was amazing, debatably even better than the original game.  I hope they can do something half that good with any of the DLC for ME2.  

I guess something that might be telling is what they are able to do with the DA expansion?

Well if it is a Liara packed expansion with lots of content and settles all the issues we are discussing I would definitely consider it better than the core game.

[JPfanner]

The whole Shiala was kind of insulting for me. I don't want to get into any arguments or bash anyone at all. But I remember on the other forums that there was some discussion about Shiala being so much better looking when she was green, or how people wished they could recruit and romance her.



So when you meet her and she's green again, then finish her mission and she comes onto you that was just annoying for me. Like that appeasement was so much more important to include than just something like, "I still love you Shepard" from Liara.

[Sigilius]

JPfanner wrote...

The whole Shiala was kind of insulting for me. I don't want to get into any arguments or bash anyone at all. But I remember on the other forums that there was some discussion about Shiala being so much better looking when she was green, or how people wished they could recruit and romance her.

So when you meet her and she's green again, then finish her mission and she comes onto you that was just annoying for me. Like that appeasement was so much more important to include than just something like, "I still love you Shepard" from Liara.

We need to have faith in Bioware! They're gamers, just like us, and they love the characters, too! They wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot like this. They've got a plan, you can go to the bank on that! If they're going to appease some Shiala lovers, it's just because they wanted to toss a small concession to the wierd-ship fans out there. They want to make everyone happy. Trust me, they needed more time to prepare the romances properly, and make a tidy profit off a bang-up DLC. They're just tying up loose ends, making good on old promises with easy concessions like the Gianna and Shiala encounters. Us fans who are after the good stuff will have to sit tight!

Yes, I'm a cynical person, but Liara just brings out the optimist in me.

[Azriel86]

I was kinda pissed to when I met Liara for the first time in ME2. I was thrilled to meet her and see how you could develop your relationship with her or something. But that wasn't the case.

I've heard somewhere that Bioware is planning to have the love interests from ME1 be in ME3 and there's gonna be the question of weather you cheated on them or not.

I get the fact that ME2 is kinda supposed to give you the feeling that you are in a strange place surrounded by people you don't know (Garrus and Tali not included) and part of it is to let the LI from ME1 not have a bigger part but still, it just felt like Bioware dodging the difficult task of allowing players to develop these relationships.

[wako58]

JPfanner wrote...

Landing on Illium was like running a gauntlet of anticipation. I'd been all fired up to finally reunite with Liara, especially after being infuriated by TIM's pathetic lies about her and the bitter reunion with my friend Ashely on Horizon.

Right when you come out of the ship I was met by the Concierge who told me that Liara had paid my fees and was eager to see me. I ran into the rachni queen representative who thanked me and told me how the queen was doing. Then like twenty feet from her I ran into Gianna who was eager to see me and chatted a lot with me about old times and what I was doing now. So it's like you're in this warm haze of, "Wow, what I did in ME 1 DOES matter!" Then you meet Liara and you don't know what's going on and I just sat here staring at the screen thinking I'd missed something. So I reloaded and ran through all that again...and it was the same total confusion.

I shambled around the city like a zombie doing Liara's hacking mission, desperately hoping I just had to get that out of the way to talk with her. Ran into Conrad and that whole interaction re-ignited the feeling that surely there was something ahead. Then I did the Observer mission and was still confused. After several reloads I managed to figure out how to navigate her screwed up dialog tree. Then I just sat here thinking, "What?"

It is just totally insanely jarring that you meet the Concierge, rachni queen agent, Gianna, and Conrad all right there and any ONE of them has a more meaningful conversation with Shepard than the woman that defied the Shadow Broker, Collectors, and mercenaries just on the chance to have Shephard cheat death. And you need to either be lucky or reload a few times to even find out about her recovering your body.

I agree completely as she was my LI in the original ME.  She sought out Shep's body and turned him over to Cerberus on the slim hope that the Lazarus Project could possibly (unknown success) resurrect him.  She knows he's on a (entirely probable) one way trip through the Omega 4 relay to take on the Collectors.  Now here he is standing before her in the flesh.  The same Shep she knows and loves, not some clone with a new personality and no memories of her.  All he gets in return is the big brush off.  How are they going to contrive a story that explains all that?  If she knows Sheperd is back and with Cerberus then so does the Shadow Broker.  He also knows what she went through to get him back and the nature of their relationship.  There are no secrets being revealed when you express your feelings about a relationship that everybody already knows about......end rant.

[Sigilius]

EDIT: Double post.

Modifié par Sigilius, 14 février 2010 - 07:32 .

[Sigilius]

Azriel86 wrote...

I was kinda pissed to when I met Liara for the first time in ME2. I was thrilled to meet her and see how you could develop your relationship with her or something. But that wasn't the case.
I've heard somewhere that Bioware is planning to have the love interests from ME1 be in ME3 and there's gonna be the question of weather you cheated on them or not.
I get the fact that ME2 is kinda supposed to give you the feeling that you are in a strange place surrounded by people you don't know (Garrus and Tali not included) and part of it is to let the LI from ME1 not have a bigger part but still, it just felt like Bioware dodging the difficult task of allowing players to develop these relationships.

I concur, but I'm still holding out for a DLC. Even if they bring back the LI's in great roles, create angst and great dialogue about cheating (Which we faithful Shepards will be missing out on. They'd better have a damn good reward for staying true!), they'll still need to have fixed up the problems left by ME2. Otherwise, ME3 will only deliver the same experience from ME1, and we don't want to reset our romances! Liara still remembers us! We're sure of it! Don't let us down, Bioware!

Modifié par Sigilius, 14 février 2010 - 07:38 .

[Mox Ruuga]

JPfanner wrote...

The whole Shiala was kind of insulting for me. I don't want to get into any arguments or bash anyone at all. But I remember on the other forums that there was some discussion about Shiala being so much better looking when she was green, or how people wished they could recruit and romance her.

So when you meet her and she's green again, then finish her mission and she comes onto you that was just annoying for me. Like that appeasement was so much more important to include than just something like, "I still love you Shepard" from Liara.

It was fanservice, no doubt about it. Hell, both Shiala and Gianna Parasini had more romantic chemistry with Shepard than Liara! How's that for the second act of a three act romance?  That admitted attraction, the following arm caress and mutual smile of acknowledgement from both Shiala and Shepard was more telling than any interaction shared by Shep and Liara.

Still, I quite like both Shiala and Gianna, and hope they have "Kelly" sized non-squad romance roles in ME3. I have single Sheps plenty, too.

[Mox Ruuga]

Sigilius wrote...

We need to have faith in Bioware! They're gamers, just like us, and they love the characters, too! They wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot like this. They've got a plan, you can go to the bank on that! If they're going to appease some Shiala lovers, it's just because they wanted to toss a small concession to the wierd-ship fans out there. They want to make everyone happy. Trust me, they needed more time to prepare the romances properly, and make a tidy profit off a bang-up DLC. They're just tying up loose ends, making good on old promises with easy concessions like the Gianna and Shiala encounters. Us fans who are after the good stuff will have to sit tight!

Yes, I'm a cynical person, but Liara just brings out the optimist in me.

I admire your optimism.

When the writers start dipping their toes into the churning maelstrom of these forums, you (and other optimists) must be our ambassador for more and better Liara in ME3 to them. I can't trust myself to be completely non snarky with them.

[Sigilius]

Mox Ruuga wrote...
I admire your optimism.

When the writers start dipping their toes into the churning maelstrom of these forums, you (and other optimists) must be our ambassador for more and better Liara in ME3 to them. I can't trust myself to be completely non snarky with them.

"You've done your job, Shepard, now let me do mine." Yes, I think I will make a fine ambassador, although I will try not to become like Udina. Man, he's such a well-done character to get us to gate his guts so. I'd be more like Anderson, a reluctant politician with everyone's best interests at heart. "Fighting the good fight."

As we all must do, to get back on topic. Bioware isn't going to appreciate us ragging on them, especially if they have a great ace up their sleeve relating to Liara and LI DLCS. Imagine how frustrating it would be, knowing that everyone was wrongly hating you, when you had a great present for them that you couldn't tell them about! I'd be so aggravated. Not to mention angry. Let's try to be a little more understanding of the demigods at BW, and have faith in the Goddess (Yes, I do love asari).

[Nozybidaj]

Sigilius wrote...

JPfanner wrote...

The whole Shiala was kind of insulting for me. I don't want to get into any arguments or bash anyone at all. But I remember on the other forums that there was some discussion about Shiala being so much better looking when she was green, or how people wished they could recruit and romance her.

So when you meet her and she's green again, then finish her mission and she comes onto you that was just annoying for me. Like that appeasement was so much more important to include than just something like, "I still love you Shepard" from Liara.

We need to have faith in Bioware! They're gamers, just like us, and they love the characters, too! They wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot like this. They've got a plan, you can go to the bank on that! If they're going to appease some Shiala lovers, it's just because they wanted to toss a small concession to the wierd-ship fans out there. They want to make everyone happy. Trust me, they needed more time to prepare the romances properly, and make a tidy profit off a bang-up DLC. They're just tying up loose ends, making good on old promises with easy concessions like the Gianna and Shiala encounters. Us fans who are after the good stuff will have to sit tight!

Yes, I'm a cynical person, but Liara just brings out the optimist in me.

Not to be rude, but that sounds a lot like what BW asked of us prior to ME2 launch.  It's time to see some results, they used up all their good faith with me.  I've thoroughly enjoyed a lot of BW games, I absolutely love ME1 and DA:O, and bought ME2 against my better judgement because of that.  I'm all out of free passes.  This Liara Expansion better be magnificent.