1679 réponses à ce sujet

[Sigilius]

To expand on the above thought, further evidence pointing to a great DLC is that they're not talking! They'd respond to these complaints with apologies if they'd really screwed up, but instead they're staying mute about it, knowing they shouldn't apologize because they've got more coming, and that saying so would spoil the surprise!

But that's just me being optimistic again.

Modifié par Sigilius, 14 février 2010 - 07:49 .

[Mox Ruuga]

Nah, they had their chance to deliver good content for the ME1 LIs in the ME2 core game. The end result was a complete bust. The goodwill from previous games, which they themselves invoked on the old boards ("Don't you guys trust us yet?" etc), has now been drained. Not completely, but the "tanks" are no longer as full as they once were.

Why should we be content and grateful for paying extra for something the Talimancers and Garrus fans got with the core game? And that's assuming a Liara DLC ever even materializes, let alone something that contains Shepard/Liara material of any good quality...

[bjdbwea]

So very, very true. When I came to Illium, I was already unhappy with several of the changes in ME 2. But then there was that woman who made it sound as if Liara was very happy to see Shepard again. We knew the role of the ME 1 companions was reduced, but I did anticipate a highlight in the game. It's BioWare, they know what they're doing, right? And then... bam! What a joke. What makes the scene so bad is really how simply unrealistic both characters behave, there's no way to spin that. Talk of destroying atmosphere and immersion. That which was there, anyway. If the main story would have been as captivating and engaging as in ME 1, it wouldn't have been so important in the first place. The "picture scene" in the end was too little, too late.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 14 février 2010 - 07:55 .

[Azriel86]

Littledoom wrote...

Sigilius wrote...

Azriel86 wrote...

I was kinda pissed to when I met Liara for the first time in ME2. I was thrilled to meet her and see how you could develop your relationship with her or something. But that wasn't the case.
I've heard somewhere that Bioware is planning to have the love interests from ME1 be in ME3 and there's gonna be the question of weather you cheated on them or not.
I get the fact that ME2 is kinda supposed to give you the feeling that you are in a strange place surrounded by people you don't know (Garrus and Tali not included) and part of it is to let the LI from ME1 not have a bigger part but still, it just felt like Bioware dodging the difficult task of allowing players to develop these relationships.

I concur, but I'm still holding out for a DLC. Even if they bring back the LI's in great roles, create angst and great dialogue about cheating (Which we faithful Shepards will be missing out on. They'd better have a damn good reward for staying true!), they'll still need to have fixed up the problems left by ME2. Otherwise, ME3 will only deliver the same experience from ME1, and we don't want to reset our romances! Liara still remembers us! We'r sure of it! Don't let us down, Bioware!

Well I'm starting to build a stockpile of torches and pitchforks just in case if you don't mind <_<

No we don't mind. There may be a s*** load of people asking you to pass them along if this all goes to hell

[Nozybidaj]

Sigilius wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...
I admire your optimism.

When the writers start dipping their toes into the churning maelstrom of these forums, you (and other optimists) must be our ambassador for more and better Liara in ME3 to them. I can't trust myself to be completely non snarky with them.

"You've done your job, Shepard, now let me do mine." Yes, I think I will make a fine ambassador, although I will try not to become like Udina. Man, he's such a well-done character to get us to gate his guts so. I'd be more like Anderson, a reluctant politician with everyone's best interests at heart. "Fighting the good fight."

As we all must do, to get back on topic. Bioware isn't going to appreciate us ragging on them, especially if they have a great ace up their sleeve relating to Liara and LI DLCS. Imagine how frustrating it would be, knowing that everyone was wrongly hating you, when you had a great present for them that you couldn't tell them about! I'd be so aggravated. Not to mention angry. Let's try to be a little more understanding of the demigods at BW, and have faith in the Goddess (Yes, I do love asari).

Know what I would say?  Good! 

After what they gave us in ME2 they should be feeling something seeing the fans express their disappointment.  I would be extremely disappointed if BW saw this thread and did not feel something.  A half dozen extra lines in ME2 and most all this complaining would have evaporated.  They didn't do it.  Whether it was oversight, lack of time, lack of caring, or intentional just to rile people up, it is what it is. 

I hope Mac and Casey do see these threads and think "frack these guys, we'll show them.  we'll make the best damn Liara expansion anyone ever dreamed of".  They should be frustrated, it would at least show they care about Liara and her fans. Maybe then they can empathize a little with how we are feeling at the loss of a third (possibly two thirds depending on ME3) of our Shepard's story.

[Nozybidaj]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Nah, they had their chance to
deliver good content for the ME1 LIs in the ME2 core game. The end
result was a complete bust. The goodwill from previous games, which
they themselves invoked on the old boards ("Don't you guys trust us
yet?" etc), has now been drained. Not completely, but the "tanks" are
no longer as full as they once were.

Why should we be content
and grateful for paying extra for something the Talimancers and Garrus
fans got with the core game? And that's assuming a Liara DLC ever even
materializes, let alone something that contains Shepard/Liara material
of any good quality...

bjdbwea wrote...

So very, very true. When I came to Illium, I was already unhappy with several of the changes in ME 2. But then there was that woman who made it sound as if Liara was very happy to see Shepard again. We knew the role of the ME 1 companions was reduced, but I did anticipate a highlight in the game. It's BioWare, they know what they're doing, right? And then... bam! What a joke. What makes the scene so bad is really how simply unrealistic both characters behave, there's no way to spin that. Talk of destroying atmosphere and immersion. That which was there, anyway. If the main story would have been as captivating and engaging as in ME 1, it wouldn't have been so important in the first place. The "picture scene" in the end was too little, too late.

Completely agree with both you guys.

[WilliamShatner]

The funny (or sad) thing is the speculation after seeing the trailer that the ME1 LI would be collected by the collectors and therefore provide a personal driving force for Shepard and seeing this as the worse case scenario for the LI involvement in ME2 was better than the role they were actually given.

[Nozybidaj]

WilliamShatner wrote...

The funny (or sad) thing is the speculation after seeing the trailer that the ME1 LI would be collected by the collectors and therefore provide a personal driving force for Shepard and seeing this as the worse case scenario for the LI involvement in ME2 was better than the role they were actually given.

Hehe, yeah.

[Nozybidaj]

Sigilius wrote...

To expand on the above thought, further evidence pointing to a great DLC is that they're not talking! They'd respond to these complaints with apologies if they'd really screwed up, but instead they're staying mute about it, knowing they shouldn't apologize because they've got more coming, and that saying so would spoil the surprise!

But that's just me being optimistic again.

I agree with some of the things you said, except this one.  If I were BW I wouldn't touch this topic with a 10 foot pole unless I DID have something good to say.  They aren't going to come here and apologize or admit they screwed up.  The only reason to remain silent is to either just ignore it and hope it goes away or they didn't anticipate it and don't know how to respond yet. 

If they had plans they thought would make right the things we think are wrong why not drop some subtle hints about it to try and defuse the situation?

[bjdbwea]

Indeed. That would've been a good explanation to take the ME 1 LIs out of the game, and provide an additional reason for players to defeat the Collectors. Then throw in a nice little reunion scene at the end (IF the player manages to save everyone in time), and there you go. Instead, Ashley and Kaidan wondrously escape after being amongst the first ones to be frozen, only to behave nearly as annoyingly unrealistic as Liara.

[Mox Ruuga]

Nozybidaj wrote...

If they had plans they thought would make right the things we think are wrong why not drop some subtle hints about it to try and defuse the situation?

Indeed, they have done that in the past. Though it might be that they've seen how we've already found the Liara DLC files, and are content with the speculation and hopes that resulted from that.

Still, shunting the ME1 romances off to DLC doesn't set a good precedent. Perhaps they'll do it again for ME3?

[Ultra Prism]

we need more posts make this sound more convincing to the Devs..... i am pissed about it

[Azriel86]

Ultra Prism wrote...

we need more posts make this sound more convincing to the Devs..... i am pissed about it

(grabs his english dictionary and starts looking up fancy words.)

[Nozybidaj]

Azriel86 wrote...

Ultra Prism wrote...

we need more posts make this sound more convincing to the Devs..... i am pissed about it

(grabs his english dictionary and starts looking up fancy words.)

Discombobulate - verb (used with object), -lat⋅ed, -lat⋅ing.
    How a Mass Effect game feels without Liara in it.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 14 février 2010 - 08:57 .

[ThisIsMadness91]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Perhaps the backbone was surgically removed? IIRC the original plan of Bioware was to have the beginning sequence end up even quicker and with less complaint from Shepard, until one of the writers, I think Weekes, had the idea of putting in at least some token resistance from Shepard against working for/trusting Cerberus and TIM.

Seriously? If that had been allowed to happen, it would have sucked out all the immersion for me.

jlb524 wrote...

I finally asked Liara why she was threatening to flay that guy alive with her mind. It's just b/c he owed her money. *lip quivers, starts to weep*

Wait, so now she's a loan shark too?! This is not Liara. This is a Reaper plant intended to dishearten Shepard and cause him/her to lose focus on the fight against the Reapers.

Or BioWare really did take the "dark and edgy" thing as ridiculously far as I feared.

[Mox Ruuga]

ThisIsMadness91 wrote...


Seriously? If that had been allowed to happen, it would have sucked out all the immersion for me.

Yeah, I saw a post by the writer in question, IIRC Patrick Weekes, back on the old board. The original concept was to get Shepard happily working with Cerberus with less scruples even quicker than what ended in the game. I can't recall what he said about why that was changed, or more importantly, why such an abominably bad idea was thought up in the first place...

[KumoriOokami]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

ThisIsMadness91 wrote...


Seriously? If that had been allowed to happen, it would have sucked out all the immersion for me.

Yeah, I saw a post by the writer in question, IIRC Patrick Weekes, back on the old board. The original concept was to get Shepard happily working with Cerberus with less scruples even quicker than what ended in the game. I can't recall what he said about why that was changed, or more importantly, why such an abominably bad idea was thought up in the first place...

Patrick Weekes seems to be one of the better writers for ME2, I certainly hope they keep that one.

[Adon 9]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Yeah, I saw a post by the writer in question, IIRC Patrick Weekes, back on the old board. The original concept was to get Shepard happily working with Cerberus with less scruples even quicker than what ended in the game. I can't recall what he said about why that was changed, or more importantly, why such an abominably bad idea was thought up in the first place...

That would have been... well... a monumentally bad idea.  It is really difficult to fathom how the writers WOULDN'T think that players would want a damn good reason why Shepard would blissfully go along with a group that all of his/her previous contact with made out to be complete monsters.  What they did with Liara is bad enough, but that?  That would have been sheer wallbanger territory.

[bjdbwea]

So how often did they participate in the old forum anyway? Funny, isn't it, how it stops once we've all bought the game.

[Mox Ruuga]

bjdbwea wrote...

So how often did they participate in the old forum anyway? Funny, isn't it, how it stops once we've all bought the game.

Especially after they told us to wait and play the game, so they could then discuss it with us when we knew the context of the spoilers we were seeing etc.

I'm betting they will return, once the forums quiet down a bit. Or not. We shall see.

[Nozybidaj]

Adon 9 wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Yeah, I saw a post by the writer in question, IIRC Patrick Weekes, back on the old board. The original concept was to get Shepard happily working with Cerberus with less scruples even quicker than what ended in the game. I can't recall what he said about why that was changed, or more importantly, why such an abominably bad idea was thought up in the first place...

That would have been... well... a monumentally bad idea.  It is really difficult to fathom how the writers WOULDN'T think that players would want a damn good reason why Shepard would blissfully go along with a group that all of his/her previous contact with made out to be complete monsters.  What they did with Liara is bad enough, but that?  That would have been sheer wallbanger territory.

That's the kind of hair brained ideas that makes me worry what the comic has left in store of rus.  In this particular instance someone just happened to speak up.  What if no one was around to speak up about the comic.  Ugh, I hope Drew comes back soon.

[Arturia Pendragon]

JPfanner wrote...

Landing on Illium was like running a gauntlet of anticipation. I'd been all fired up to finally reunite with Liara, especially after being infuriated by TIM's pathetic lies about her and the bitter reunion with my friend Ashely on Horizon.

Right when you come out of the ship I was met by the Concierge who told me that Liara had paid my fees and was eager to see me. I ran into the rachni queen representative who thanked me and told me how the queen was doing. Then like twenty feet from her I ran into Gianna who was eager to see me and chatted a lot with me about old times and what I was doing now. So it's like you're in this warm haze of, "Wow, what I did in ME 1 DOES matter!" Then you meet Liara and you don't know what's going on and I just sat here staring at the screen thinking I'd missed something. So I reloaded and ran through all that again...and it was the same total confusion.

I shambled around the city like a zombie doing Liara's hacking mission, desperately hoping I just had to get that out of the way to talk with her. Ran into Conrad and that whole interaction re-ignited the feeling that surely there was something ahead. Then I did the Observer mission and was still confused. After several reloads I managed to figure out how to navigate her screwed up dialog tree. Then I just sat here thinking, "What?"

It is just totally insanely jarring that you meet the Concierge, rachni queen agent, Gianna, and Conrad all right there and any ONE of them has a more meaningful conversation with Shepard than the woman that defied the Shadow Broker, Collectors, and mercenaries just on the chance to have Shephard cheat death. And you need to either be lucky or reload a few times to even find out about her recovering your body.

That mirrors my reaction almost exactly, just with a tad shock that I got Renegade points for agreeing to help her.  Apparently BioWare expects a Paragon to turn her down, even if she was your LI.....

[Sharn01]

It is a bit late for DLC to fix Liara, what comes on the origonal disk/disks is the game, that is the game that the vast majority of player's see, only hardcore player's finish a game get DLC and play again to see what it adds.



I will get the DLC if they make some available to fix Liara, but I will not be holding my breath, and with out fan support for ME3, some thing she will not get since they wrote her off in the core game of ME2, I am afraid her character is going to get swept under the rug.

[Nozybidaj]

Sharn01 wrote...

It is a bit late for DLC to fix Liara, what comes on the origonal disk/disks is the game, that is the game that the vast majority of player's see, only hardcore player's finish a game get DLC and play again to see what it adds.

I will get the DLC if they make some available to fix Liara, but I will not be holding my breath, and with out fan support for ME3, some thing she will not get since they wrote her off in the core game of ME2, I am afraid her character is going to get swept under the rug.

I certainly see that as a possibility.  As some have postulated they could easily at this point tie her up in the "information business" and completely sideline and forget about her again.

[ThisIsMadness91]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

ThisIsMadness91 wrote...


Seriously? If that had been allowed to happen, it would have sucked out all the immersion for me.

Yeah, I saw a post by the writer in question, IIRC Patrick Weekes, back on the old board. The original concept was to get Shepard happily working with Cerberus with less scruples even quicker than what ended in the game. I can't recall what he said about why that was changed, or more importantly, why such an abominably bad idea was thought up in the first place...

Ick! Thank goodness Mr. Weekes is on the team. ThisIsMadness91 approves +>9000.