1679 réponses à ce sujet

[Mox Ruuga]

crimzontearz wrote...

uhm...no

she explains to you she has been cold to you because she was feeling guilty about taking your body to Cerberus....after you tell her "it's ok you did the right thing" she remains the very same.....

Yeah. You can snap at her, or be understanding, but she still doesn't get it. She still ignores both the big picture and her friendship/love for Shepard, and remains focused on her petty personal goals. Making the Shadow Broker pay for the death of some random drell is more important than stopping the Reapers, naturally. The sensible and sensitive Liara of ME1 is gone, replaced by the vapid, violent, vengeful, and petty UnLiara.

Hell, frigging Zaeed(!) can be reasoned with to put his own personal revenge on hold for now... whereas UnLiara just ignores your pleads for aid.  UnLiara is more selfish and petty than Zaeed frigging Massani. Perhaps we should have offered her money for her aid...

Modifié par Mox Ruuga, 15 février 2010 - 05:43 .

[Arturia Pendragon]

Driveninhifi wrote...

The comics are very, very uneven. She's in character at times, being naive about stuff. She's way, way too aggressive though. 75%-90% is waay overstating it though.
She's not a doormat - she's been killing dudes with Shepard for a long time, so that's not really out of character. You are CONSTANTLY fighting in ME1 and she's one of the more powerful characters - she can handle herself. What is ridiculously out of character is when she kills the Batarian in #2 and quips about "that's why it's called afterlife!" That's absolutely terrible writing - it's in character for her to defend herself (lethally, if need be), but not at all in character to kill in cold blood. It's completely unbelievable. She basically should not be the aggressor ever. I do think her biotic punching Feron is toeing the line, but I bought it in that situation.
Also, it's a comic book and so they are trying to make her kind of the tough action hero type of chick to carry the action. Unfortunately that doesn't really fit her character - she's more thoughtful and deliberate in ME1, though I buy her being totally determined to get to Shepard. They also have the issue of the comic not being able to determine whether she's Shepard's love or not, which should really have a large impact on her character. Trying to write it for both weakens it.
Now, if they have her fall in love with Feron during the comic I'll roll my eyes endlessly, though I personally don't think they will happen. There's really no way for it to make any sense anyway.

You do realize that the comic is supposed to be set a few days (maybe a week at most) after Shepard dies, right? Her personality - even following Ilos - does not account for violence. The ME1 Liara I know would try to negotiate a dispute loooong before resorting to violence.... And "negotiating my docking fare" with her Biotics doesn't count. I'd also like to point out that the way she's presented visually (50% of a comic is the art) is completely off base. Not only is her skin coloring completely wrong, but she walks around like a plastic Barbie doll: completely stiff, fists almost constantly clenched, chest popped out for embellishment, and occasionally with an oversexualized, wicked grin (as if she's thinking about doing something with Feron). 75-90% isn't too far off, in my opinion.

Modifié par Arturia Pendragon, 16 février 2010 - 01:04 .

[yeldarbnotned]

Well, obviously, it sounds like I would be more irritated if I read the comics. Why would Bioware do this? Doesn't Shepard already have enough cold hearted killers on the team?

[Sphynx118]

yeldarbnotned wrote...

Well, obviously, it sounds like I would be more irritated if I read the comics. Why would Bioware do this? Doesn't Shepard already have enough cold hearted killers on the team?

Because its cool and edgy. And it really AMPS up the story like the bioware docs said like 55 times in their interviews

[Mystranna Kelteel]

I think an allowance has to be made for the comic given what it is: a comic.



There's very little room for subtlety in a comic unless the writer / artist is stellar, and that's obviously not the case for ME:Redemption. So, yeah, the dialogue is broken and blunt, and Liara's poses are over-the-top, but that's pretty common in a comic that's trying to portray a specific emotion or scene.

[wolf99000]

I always took her line about dont you think I want to when you ask her to just talk to you as she can't maybe someone is watching her maybe the im thinking Shepard did not need her as a distraction sent her of on this path



as for the comic some I agree with you on but the point about her being some crazy killer I always took that as her grief at you being dead and wanting you back as its set not longer after you die

[Mystranna Kelteel]

wolf99000 wrote...

I always took her line about dont you think I want to when you ask her to just talk to you as she can't maybe someone is watching her maybe the im thinking Shepard did not need her as a distraction sent her of on this path

That makes no sense, though. It's lazy writing at best.

Liara can't talk about her relationship with Shepard because her office might be bugged, but she can flat-out say she's going to kill the shadow broker?
Makes.no.sense.

[Joekababazae]

I was expecting a really well thought out scene upon metting Liara again... Bioware kinda missed that one

[wolf99000]

never said it made it sense just the way I explained it to myself

[insomniac13]

Ill always dig Liara no matter who she become... Thats why i stayed with her in ME2 in

hopes she'll make a comback in ME3

[insomniac13]

(whats up with laptop...)

[Mox Ruuga]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

That makes no sense, though. It's lazy writing at best.

Liara can't talk about her relationship with Shepard because her office might be bugged, but she can flat-out say she's going to kill the shadow broker?
Makes.no.sense.

Not only does she say she's going to kill the SB, but she outright describes her plans for finding out about the Observer to Shepard right there, and asks him/her to do it for her!

[Daeion]

SovereignT wrote...

Liara played a critical role in the sequel which time and time again I see people who cant fully comprehend..

If Liara hadn't became an information broker and went after the shadow broker Shep wouldn't even have had a 2nd chance and may have been turned into fuel for the human reaper.

She was able to pry his/her body away from shadow broker and prevent it from being sold to the collectors which is far superior a role played in this game then what she has EVER done.

I'm still playing catch up from the weekend but...

From the way I took the comics, Liara isn't an information broker yet and won't become one until after getting the body of shep back and then starting her hunt for the Garrus, I mean the SB...

People aren't saying what she does in the overall story isn't critical, because as you pointed out it is.  However it is poorly implimented and we shouldn't have to rely upon a comic that won't even finish until 3 months after the game was released to try and resolve things that should have built into the game to begin with.

[Championette]

The comic is badly written and badly drawn. It's best to avoid it and get updates from people who have read it. Unfortunately I can't stay away and have spent money on it and will for the entire series.

[crimzontearz]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

I always took her line about dont you think I want to when you ask her to just talk to you as she can't maybe someone is watching her maybe the im thinking Shepard did not need her as a distraction sent her of on this path

That makes no sense, though. It's lazy writing at best.

Liara can't talk about her relationship with Shepard because her office might be bugged, but she can flat-out say she's going to kill the shadow broker?
Makes.no.sense.

LOL I noticed that too...

"yes Shepard, the office is bugged, let them see me shove my tongue down your throat, let them know I gave your body to Cerberus and that I am hot on the shadow broker's trail but I'll be damned if I'll let them know I still love you!"

[RisenChudJr]

I got mad at her for selling me to Cerberus. Then I romanced Tali. Ready for some friction in ME3

[Driveninhifi]

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

You do realize that the comic is supposed to be set a few days (maybe a week at most) after Shepard dies, right? Her personality - even following Ilos - does not account for violence. The ME1 Liara I know would try to negotiate a dispute loooong before resorting to violence.... And "negotiating my docking fare" with her Biotics doesn't count. I'd also like to point out that the way she's presented visually (50% of a comic is the art) is completely off base. Not only is her skin coloring completely wrong, but she walks around like a plastic Barbie doll: completely stiff, fists almost constantly clenched, chest popped out for embellishment, and occasionally with an oversexualized, wicked grin (as if she's thinking about doing something with Theron). 75-90% isn't too far off, in my opinion.

I agree the comic isn't very good, and I totally agree with your comments about the timeline (though they mention it's been a month or so - still not enough time for a major character change). I think they had to amp her up to make her carry the action. This isn't a good thing  - but I do think it is in character for her to defend herself when a crew full of batarians attempts to rape her. Now, that situation is completely ridiculous and contrived (hello fight scene 2 pages into the series!), but it isn't really out of character.
I totally agree that she should _never_ be made the aggressor. She should defend herself with as much force as necessary, but having her look to harm people is totally wrong for her.
I didn't see her showing any interest in Feron at all in the comics though. She seems to not actually like him, which makes sense. If they do shoehorn a romance in there, I'd lose a whole lot of respect for the writers.

This is also the problem with her presentation in ME2 - she had to have started this vendetta like a month or 2 after Shepard's death (immediately after giving the body to Cerberus, I'd say). Revenge does not fit her character at all - she really has to be doing it because she believes it is the right thing to do. Whether that is because she discovers the Shadow Broker is doing eeeevil things, or because she believes it's the only way to redeem herself doesn't really matter. But it has to be one of the two and Shepard really should have been able to talk to her about it in game.

[crimzontearz]

I am still hoping for a chance to bow out gracefully

[Sigilius]

I'm still nervous that the cheaters will get a great, dramatic moment or two in their relationships, but the faithful will just get no recognition of their sacrifice, and have next to no dialogue with their LI. Why isn't there a reward for being faithful? It's almost like the unfaithful are being rewarded for doing what Bioware wanted. They keep pushing you to your limits, testing you at every turn with party members who, to quote another user, take their shirt of for you the moment you want to ask about them personally. It got so bad I avoided Jack, Miranda, and Tali entirely, and that really made things suck. Tali always had such good conversation.

Seriously, though, they keep shamelessly throwing temptation in your path, so to speak, and the characters keep throwing themselves at you with the same alarming regularity. And half the time there was no way to turn them down without being Renegade, so I'd have to reload! I mean, that's just ridiculous!

Modifié par Sigilius, 15 février 2010 - 09:02 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

LOL, I wasn't even remotely tempted to cheat on Liara... Except with Kelly, but she likely won't count.



It was almost like BioWare was forcing me not to cheat on her.

[Sigilius]

I didn't like any of the female LI's, and although I think Tali is great, she's just not Liara material. I never once wanted to cheat on her. I was just illustrating the fact that they are so shameless in trying to encourage you to cheat!

[Madecologist]

I agree with the OP. I am sticklier to playing with what I see. What I saw was, Liara was not a LI anymore. Only Shepard being naive that had the picture up in his room. Which is sad, because I did romance her in ME1 for a reason.



Was this screw up on the devs, not giving her a proper treatment (some argue none of the ME1 LI did, but Liara was worst, so I will rephrase: at least the same treatment that Kai/Ash got the very least) or was this intentional. If intentional scares me, because if it was, she seems to going down the road of "antagonist" very fast. Yeah I have wild imagination, that is what crops up when I think of ME2 portrail of Liara.

[crimzontearz]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

LOL, I wasn't even remotely tempted to cheat on Liara... Except with Kelly, but she likely won't count.



It was almost like BioWare was forcing me not to cheat on her.

please, you know she does not count as cheating because she will be the first one in ME3 to suggest and actively pursue the creation of a Liara-Shepard-Kelly sandwitch

[crimzontearz]

double post

Modifié par crimzontearz, 15 février 2010 - 09:19 .

[Nynaeve]

crimzontearz wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

LOL, I wasn't even remotely tempted to cheat on Liara... Except with Kelly, but she likely won't count.

It was almost like BioWare was forcing me not to cheat on her.

please, you know she does not count as cheating because she will be the first one in ME3 to suggest and actively pursue the creation of a Liara-Shepard-Kelly sandwitch

 Hmm now THAT would make my day