1679 réponses à ce sujet

[wolf99000]

lets just hope that they explain her change better because if the comics follow the game and have him just trying to sell your dead body as he must have done worse things I just don't think she would be like she is in the game there has to be more to it between them

[wolf99000]

Shavon wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

can you have 2 save games one where you cheat on her and one where you don't in the same career would me3 even regonize both saves just wondering as I would like to see if there is any difference

I'm doing this, although it's two different Shepards.  The way ME1 "goodies" are handled, I doubt much will change, either a line or two extra for added angst, or a block from romancing her in ME3.

I was more worried with me3 not being able to read both saves as it is the same Shepard just 2 saves in that one career of that Shepard

[wolf99000]

I also think the way they handled shepards mum in the spacer background in 2 is strange if you had died and came back to life the first thing you would do is say hi mum I am alive but you don't in fact you only really go there when she sends you a mail

Modifié par wolf99000, 16 février 2010 - 05:38 .

[jlb524]

wolf99000 wrote...

lets just hope that they explain her change better because if the comics follow the game and have him just trying to sell your dead body as he must have done worse things I just don't think she would be like she is in the game there has to be more to it between them

I agree.  I'm expecting something shocking in the final comic book issue that we didn't see coming;  something that proves the SB is a total evil bastard.

The selling Shepard's body thing is kind of weak, considering that Liara was able to get Shepard's body before it was sold and it was two years ago.  You would think Liara would be over that by now, especially since Shepard is alive now.

[jlb524]

wolf99000 wrote...

I was more worried with me3 not being able to read both saves as it is the same Shepard just 2 saves in that one career of that Shepard

I would imagine you would need two different careers to do this, if I understand correctly.  ME3 will probably only import one save per Shepard career, like ME2 did.

[jlb524]

Shavon wrote...

Wait, I've been able to import two different saves from the same career, on xbox.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding.  Did you have to start a NG+ with your Shepard though?

[JPfanner]

I didn't really focus much on the change because I took it in the context of the massive railroading that runs throughout ME 2. You HAVE to work with Cerberus, the Council and Alliance have stupid reasons for not helping you. You CAN'T have Ashley/Kaiden/Liara in your squad because they have really poor reasons for not joining. The problem with ME 2 as a sequel from a storytelling/character point of view is that except for like Tali and Garrus everything is defined by what you can't do or who you can't interact with.



So it's not like I'd get mad at the Council, Alliance, or any of the characters when I'd get slapped with that railroading. I'd just shake my head and think, "Wow, that is just a failure at storytelling." Liara is not coming with you because Bioware decided she wasn't. That isn't a failure of her character or her motivations, the writers gave her as much freedom as they gave to the player; which is to say none at all.

[WilliamShatner]

JPfanner wrote...

I didn't really focus much on the change because I took it in the context of the massive railroading that runs throughout ME 2. You HAVE to work with Cerberus, the Council and Alliance have stupid reasons for not helping you. You CAN'T have Ashley/Kaiden/Liara in your squad because they have really poor reasons for not joining. The problem with ME 2 as a sequel from a storytelling/character point of view is that except for like Tali and Garrus everything is defined by what you can't do or who you can't interact with.

So it's not like I'd get mad at the Council, Alliance, or any of the characters when I'd get slapped with that railroading. I'd just shake my head and think, "Wow, that is just a failure at storytelling." Liara is not coming with you because Bioware decided she wasn't. That isn't a failure of her character or her motivations, the writers gave her as much freedom as they gave to the player; which is to say none at all.

Hey get out of my mind!  That's exactly how I feel.

[JPfanner]

jlb524 wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

I was more worried with me3 not being able to read both saves as it is the same Shepard just 2 saves in that one career of that Shepard

I would imagine you would need two different careers to do this, if I understand correctly.  ME3 will probably only import one save per Shepard career, like ME2 did.

Mass Effect 1 made a final save after the Citadel battle and that was imported.  Since you can continue playing in Mass Effect 2 after the suicide mission I'd imagine that you will just select any of your saved games and it would check for the status of the suicide mission be completed.  Otherwise things like the Kelly dancing in your room flag would never show up since that all takes place after the game is "finished"  Same with any DLC that comes out that you do after the main mission.

[Nozybidaj]

JPfanner wrote...

I didn't really focus much on the change because I took it in the context of the massive railroading that runs throughout ME 2. You HAVE to work with Cerberus, the Council and Alliance have stupid reasons for not helping you. You CAN'T have Ashley/Kaiden/Liara in your squad because they have really poor reasons for not joining. The problem with ME 2 as a sequel from a storytelling/character point of view is that except for like Tali and Garrus everything is defined by what you can't do or who you can't interact with.

So it's not like I'd get mad at the Council, Alliance, or any of the characters when I'd get slapped with that railroading. I'd just shake my head and think, "Wow, that is just a failure at storytelling." Liara is not coming with you because Bioware decided she wasn't. That isn't a failure of her character or her motivations, the writers gave her as much freedom as they gave to the player; which is to say none at all.

Thats a very good way of putting it.  I actually enjoy the things I am able to do in ME2 it is the very obvious things that I am "not allowed" to do for no reason other than "cause I said so" that have led to my disappointment.  Nicely done.

[wolf99000]

JPfanner wrote...

I didn't really focus much on the change because I took it in the context of the massive railroading that runs throughout ME 2. You HAVE to work with Cerberus, the Council and Alliance have stupid reasons for not helping you. You CAN'T have Ashley/Kaiden/Liara in your squad because they have really poor reasons for not joining. The problem with ME 2 as a sequel from a storytelling/character point of view is that except for like Tali and Garrus everything is defined by what you can't do or who you can't interact with.

So it's not like I'd get mad at the Council, Alliance, or any of the characters when I'd get slapped with that railroading. I'd just shake my head and think, "Wow, that is just a failure at storytelling." Liara is not coming with you because Bioware decided she wasn't. That isn't a failure of her character or her motivations, the writers gave her as much freedom as they gave to the player; which is to say none at all.

yea you are right but still you have to think why bioware did that there must be a reason because the in game on does not fit hell she gave your body to cerberus the sb tried to sell your body to the collectors big deal she got it back and Shepard should really be the one pissed at the sb for doing that and wanting to kill him I just hope they have some big twist that explains this and a good reason why she would not tell you the whole story

[Robbie529]

I am also disappointed that my Liara romance will not continue in ME2; even a conversation for closure would be better than an air kiss.

[Nozybidaj]

wolf99000 wrote...

yea you are right but still you have to think why bioware did that there must be a reason because the in game on does not fit hell she gave your body to cerberus the sb tried to sell your body to the collectors big deal she got it back and Shepard should really be the one pissed at the sb for doing that and wanting to kill him I just hope they have some big twist that explains this and a good reason why she would not tell you the whole story

That "reason" is what worries me.  They could very easily slide head first down a slope that will completely turn me off of ME, which is a shame since I loved the first game so much.  Not much we can do now except wait and see what the comic does.

[JPfanner]

wolf99000 wrote...

yea you are right but still you have to think why bioware did that there must be a reason because the in game on does not fit hell she gave your body to cerberus the sb tried to sell your body to the collectors big deal she got it back and Shepard should really be the one pissed at the sb for doing that and wanting to kill him I just hope they have some big twist that explains this and a good reason why she would not tell you the whole story

When I try to make sense of what you are presented with currently in the game I always come to the conclusion that you don't have enough information.  And I feel that you don't have enough information because they intentionally left out a lot with the comic run finishing in April instead of January.  Her dialog tree is just all screwy, I really do think they went back and chopped out parts to not "spoil" the comic but then totally neglected to polish it up any for release.  That chopping up and lack of polishing really stands out for people who have an emotional investment in the character.

Personally, I have faith in Liara as a character.  And that is a personal choice on my part.  She knows the stakes, hell she came up with the galactic extinction theory on her own.  If she feels that hunting down the Shadow Broker is important then I just take it on faith that there is some factor beyond any personal motivation for doing so.  And even if it were personal, how could you criticize her when you spend most of your time solving the personal issues of a ship full of psychologically damaged people?

[Melomaniacal]

I think it's extremely obvious that it will all come full circle in ME3. Both characters were caught up in something. Shepard's has resolved, Liara's will resolve by/during ME3.

I think people need to stop giving ME2 so much crap when it's clear that ME3 will resolve all of these things. You're frustrated now, but you'll be more satisfied when ME3 comes out and you get all that closure. ME2 was a part in the story, not the whole story, and not the conclusion of the story. It's like... reading half of a book, then stopping and saying "wow this book sucks, it didn't conclude anything." Yes, Liara and Shepard's relationship has hit a wall. That's completely reasonable.

[Arturia Pendragon]

JPfanner wrote...

Personally, I have faith in Liara as a character.  And that is a personal choice on my part.  She knows the stakes, hell she came up with the galactic extinction theory on her own.  If she feels that hunting down the Shadow Broker is important then I just take it on faith that there is some factor beyond any personal motivation for doing so.  And even if it were personal, how could you criticize her when you spend most of your time solving the personal issues of a ship full of psychologically damaged people?

I think most if not all of us have faith in Liara as a character. What we've lost faith in is the BioWare writing staff, or more accurately, Mac Walters and his team have failed to garner any trust from us going into ME3.

I went into ME2 blindly with faith that BioWare wouldn't fail to meet my expectations. I deliberately avoided spoilers and pre-release reviews. I will not be making that same mistake with ME3. If BioWare releases a substandard product again, they may lose my faith in them entirely.

Modifié par Arturia Pendragon, 16 février 2010 - 07:02 .

[jlb524]

Shavon wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Shavon wrote...

Wait, I've been able to import two different saves from the same career, on xbox.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding.  Did you have to start a NG+ with your Shepard though?

Yes.  NG +.  Do you mean you can only import the same save once?

No, I thought the the original poster meant import two different saves from the same Shepard game.    My mistake.

[wolf99000]

jlb524 wrote...

Shavon wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Shavon wrote...

Wait, I've been able to import two different saves from the same career, on xbox.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding.  Did you have to start a NG+ with your Shepard though?

Yes.  NG +.  Do you mean you can only import the same save once?

No, I thought the the original poster meant import two different saves from the same Shepard game.    My mistake.

I did you mean that you were right

[Driveninhifi]

Her dialogue tree does seem choppy. It's odd that you can potentially completely miss the entire branch about her recovering the body - that's either a terrible design choice or a bug.

In general, I think the main issue is that BioWare really wanted to push the player towards the new LIs and cheating on the old - but the attempt falls entirely flat. They didn't do so in a natural way, instead they removed dialogue options, etc, to keep the player in the dark. It's awkward and clumsy to do that, especially in a game like this.

It's incredibly disappointing since the rest of the game has pretty good characterization and dialogue options. Someone really needed to stand up during development and say, "Hey, this sucks and it doesn't present the player with the dilemma we are shooting for."

They also missed an opportunity to really flesh Liara out as a character - a couple extra conversations with the subtext of her being torn between rejoining Shepard, the threat of Shepard dying again, etc, hanging over the two of them could have been very compelling.

[Nastrod]

I am in shock that some people even defend the way Liara and for the matter all ME1 LIs were treated. I honestly think Liara was handled the worst since at least Ash/Kaedin were shocked about Cerberus and they also send you a e-mail later on ( at least that is what I have heard).



Lets see before ME2 your Liara's first love, take her virginity, she gets in a verbal battle with Ash over you, She risks her life to retrieve your body, and so on



Lets see what happens in ME2 you get a quick kiss and she gives you 2 jobs to hack for her......Ya I felt the love!

[wolf99000]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Her dialogue tree does seem choppy. It's odd that you can potentially completely miss the entire branch about her recovering the body - that's either a terrible design choice or a bug.
In general, I think the main issue is that BioWare really wanted to push the player towards the new LIs and cheating on the old - but the attempt falls entirely flat. They didn't do so in a natural way, instead they removed dialogue options, etc, to keep the player in the dark. It's awkward and clumsy to do that, especially in a game like this.
It's incredibly disappointing since the rest of the game has pretty good characterization and dialogue options. Someone really needed to stand up during development and say, "Hey, this sucks and it doesn't present the player with the dilemma we are shooting for."
They also missed an opportunity to really flesh Liara out as a character - a couple extra conversations with the subtext of her being torn between rejoining Shepard, the threat of Shepard dying again, etc, hanging over the two of them could have been very compelling.

them pushing you to cheat you can see right away my first play through with a me1 female Shepard just the way they have her flirting all the time just about every last conversation ends in her flirting maybe thats a price of the lazarus project they turned you into the biggest flirt in the galaxy lol

but they cannot have just took liara parts out I mean there is other stuff not making sense like Shepard's mum if you have that background you never say hi mum I am alive you have to wait for her mail I mean if you were brought back to life the first person you would call would be your family