1679 réponses à ce sujet

[wolf99000]

meznaric wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

Yeled wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Her thread is very difficult to read, people bump it if no one post's for more then 2 minutes forcing you to have to look even harder then normal in a large thread for anything of value.

I like Tali and really appreciate the complexities Bioware put into the story of the Quarians and the Geth.  I like how convincing she is during her loyalty mission, too, and how she describes how difficult things are for the Quarians since the loss of their homeworld.

Despite that, and despite the fact that I would really appreciate Liara having a larger role in ME3 (or in dlc) so I understand where they are coming from, the Tali thread scares me.

I think for sure me3 will see you helping the Quarians take back there world or trying to stop them going to war and get them make peace with legion and his group so that would pretty make certain tali will be in the 3rd game if not on your squad

So they'll create double squad members, sort of just in case if your Tali died?

no it will be like mass effect 2 if you had her live you will help her if not you will get some other Quarian

[exskeeny]

wolf99000 wrote...

meznaric wrote...

wolf99000 wrote...

Yeled wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Her thread is very difficult to read, people bump it if no one post's for more then 2 minutes forcing you to have to look even harder then normal in a large thread for anything of value.

I like Tali and really appreciate the complexities Bioware put into the story of the Quarians and the Geth.  I like how convincing she is during her loyalty mission, too, and how she describes how difficult things are for the Quarians since the loss of their homeworld.

Despite that, and despite the fact that I would really appreciate Liara having a larger role in ME3 (or in dlc) so I understand where they are coming from, the Tali thread scares me.

I think for sure me3 will see you helping the Quarians take back there world or trying to stop them going to war and get them make peace with legion and his group so that would pretty make certain tali will be in the 3rd game if not on your squad

So they'll create double squad members, sort of just in case if your Tali died?

no it will be like mass effect 2 if you had her live you will help her if not you will get some other Quarian

Kal Reeger ftw!

[Driveninhifi]

bjdbwea wrote...

maikanix wrote...

What people are forgetting to notice is that, during the kiss, she looks straight at shepard, and shakes her head "no" or "we can't". There's SOMETHING she can't tell us. Maybe it's part of the arrangement with Cerberus. Maybe it's something else. But there's some reason she can't be more affectionate at the moment. Bioware was clearly, to me at least, attempting to use that moment. It was frustrating, but believable. She had to pretend to be distant towards you for some secret reason, and that kiss was even a breach - which is why she turned her head away with that distant look.

Even if that was their intention, then it obviously didn't work, as most people are simply puzzled. But I don't think they put that much thought into the scene anyway. Let's face it: How many other scenes have you found in ME 2 that were designed with such a subtle approach? Not exactly many, I'd say. <_<

I took this to mean "This is great, my love is back! -- oh crap, what's going to happen when Shepard finds out I gave him/her to Cerberus?! Shepard's going to hate me!"

Being subtle is tough since the animations aren't quite there yet. 

The other big problem is that, as a writer, you may want to hold info back from the player/reader. This is easy to do in a book, but is really, really hard to justify in a game where the player is controlling the conversation. The entire Liara exchange needed more in-depth dialogue options for Shepard to feel natural. Shepard has the option to be pretty freaking direct in most other situations.
Just think about it: the person Shepard loves just admitted she'd put herself through hell out of grief,guilt,etc. The most natural response is not "My mission is important" - it would be something far, far more personal. You would want to say something to comfort her, support her, maybe reaffirm your feelings. Even if they aren't lovers, wouldn't you be touched by a friend telling you that? It feels really artificial as it is.

[DigitalMaster37]

nevermind...

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 18 février 2010 - 09:02 .

[Deamon023]

2 pages

[Sharn01]

Talon_Wu wrote...


That's the weirdest thing I've noticed about these ME2 forums. No mods, no devs. I've spent so much time in the DAO forums, where the lead writers and the rest of the devs posted with regularity, and there was interaction (still is) with the community, that this is a little...different.

I would be afraid to post as well, they have a lot more to answer for then just Liara and Kaiden/Ashely

The lets kill Shepard thing, despite having hundreds of other ways to start the story, working for Cerberus, an evil organization that was an enemy in the past game, and a worse enemy in the literature, the Collector's not so brilliant plan, the completely oblivious Council and Alliance, and the Giant Human Reaper.

It reminds me of the time I was running Vampire, yeah, I know its not a great game but it was a new game about vampire's, and for one of the player's birthday's since he was a tremendous Star War's fan so I took them to the Star War's universe, the story was pretty good, but I should have just made a one shot start wars game that was only about star wars instead of ruining the exsisting campaign, and the game was never the same again.

Granted, you learn lesson's from extremely boneheaded mistakes like that, and I am much better GM then I use to be,  but I think it reflect's the problem of ME2.

Hey, we got this cool idea so lets use it.

But it does not fit with the current content of ME1 and it will completely break story progression, we will have to come up with a really lame reason to get the game started and a really lame reason at the end to get the character's back on track. 

Who cares, look how cool the idea is, lets do it anyway.

The concept of a spin off with different character's never seemed to cross their minds. 

Modifié par Sharn01, 18 février 2010 - 10:12 .

[Driveninhifi]

Yeah, there's quite a bit of stuff in ME2 that seemed to be that way. They really needed an editor or impartial observer that was willing to be a jerk and bring up stuff that doesn't work well.

Especially the mining minigame.

I do think the story, etc was fine - it's just more of a side plot than part 2 in a trilogy. Hard to make a final judgement without part 3, but I think that part 3 will probably render ME2 irrelevant.

Modifié par Driveninhifi, 18 février 2010 - 10:19 .

[meznaric]

wolf99000 wrote...

meznaric wrote...

So they'll create double squad members, sort of just in case if your Tali died?

no it will be like mass effect 2 if you had her live you will help her if not you will get some other Quarian

It's possible in principle, but I doubt Bioware will spend time making additional squad members in case the ones from ME2 died. I bet we will have an entirely new team. The only familiar team member that I'd say is possible to be a squad mate in ME3 is Liara (she's the only one that cannot die). It COULD be that Ashley/Kaidan could reappear as well but I don't think they'll make extra squad mates for each one of those that could have died in ME2 and ME1.

[meznaric]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Yeah, there's quite a bit of stuff in ME2 that seemed to be that way. They really needed an editor or impartial observer that was willing to be a jerk and bring up stuff that doesn't work well.

Especially the mining minigame.

I do think the story, etc was fine - it's just more of a side plot than part 2 in a trilogy. Hard to make a final judgement without part 3, but I think that part 3 will probably render ME2 irrelevant.

This could be true. ME2 sometimes just feels like a filler...

[morrie23]

Well it could of been much worse, there are audio files that indicate that the Liara/SB mission was once much bigger in ME2. Long story short, Shep seems to kill the SB, Liara gets his data (and might of become the new SB) and still won't come with Shep because she has 'too much reading to do'. Appears that Bioware eventually decided that killing of the SB in want amounted to a side mission was a bad idea, nixed the missions, repurposed some of it into the Illium scanning and Observer missions, and expanded the rest into the comic. This is why what we have in the game feels disjointed and unfinished, but it could of been worse.

Evidence is in the Ashley, Kaidan and Liara Fans Unite Here! group if you're a member.

Modifié par morrie23, 18 février 2010 - 10:27 .

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

Sometimes less is more, and I wish they'd treated Liara like they did Ashley & Kaiden. With the reasonable assumption that they'll all return in ME3, the encounter on Horizon worked well for me, but Liara's whole dialogue and her reason for being on Illium was very weak. If the rumour that they're continuing her questline in dlc at some point is true, they might have decided to include this bit of half finished content to hold fans over. If so, then here's hoping they redo some of her existing dialogue.

[Sigilius]

I'm holding out for an expansion to explore Liara's story completely, so as to tie things up for ME3. She's too good a character to forget about.

Now, I believe it was Drivininhifi who said it, but BioWare is going to have a tough time bringing in the ME2 characters into ME3, since there's about fifty different possible outcomes. They've got their work cut out for them, so two things will happen:

1) They will do the same thing they did to the ME1 characters. All of those Miranda fans who couldn't care less about Liara and Ashley will be stuck in our camp, and BioWare will be better off engineering a game that focuses, once more, on the ME1 squad. Less variables to account for, and they'll have to write for Tali and Garrus anyway, their fan base is so big.

2) They roll up their sleeves and create about fifty different in-depth game character scenarios for each possible outcome (Minus the death of Shepard, which I think they're planning on ignoring in ME3. You just can't import your save. Shepard's death isn't supposed to be seen as another legitimate outcome, more like an epic "Game Over" sequence). Regardless, they'll have no excuse NOT to bring back the old characters in detail if they're going to carefully write for such hideous abominations of writing as Jack and Samara (Sorry, not their biggest fan).

Of course, the stars could align and all my dreams could come true. They could have you actually CHOOSE eight or so characters from both games' teams (Numbering what, seventeen now?) and take those with you. Your entire game is completely variable depending on who you actually pick for yourself! That would be wonderful, but would require a lot of writing. The core plot wouldn't be affected terribly, but pretty much everything else would. But they can do it if they set their minds to it!

Personally my eight-pick (Since it's the average between the ME1 6 squad members and the ME2 11, leaning towards a smaller group, since 8.5 doesn't really work. Imagine half a Miranda... Wait, is that a bad thing?) would be Liara (Who wouldn't?) as my precious Mrs. Shepard-type squadmate, Ashley, Garrus, Tali, Wrex, Legion, Thane, and Mordin.

Modifié par Sigilius, 18 février 2010 - 11:40 .

[Sphynx118]

They didnt just drop the ball...They lit it on fire and then scored on the wrong goal with it while going LOLOLOLOLOL

[Driveninhifi]

Well, they don't have to include everyone. They also don't have to give everyone a deep story in ME3, as you can assume certain characters' issues are resolved in ME2 (like Grunt)

From ME1:

Ash/Kaidan and Liara need to come back, otherwise why keep them alive?

Wrex probably has his hands full with the Krogan, but I'd like to see him return

ME2 (depends on if they are alive or not):

Miranda - if alive, there's no reason she wouldn't stay. especially if she resigns from cerberus

Jacob - doesn't like cerberus or the alliance, likes Shepard. Would stay

Jack - has no where else to go. May not care about the galaxy, though if she is Shep's love interest, I can't imagine she would leave him.

Garrus - probably in it for the long haul

Mordin - he's really freaking old for a salarian. maybe he hangs out on the ship?

Grunt - likes fighting, but may be needed with the Krogan. Dunno if he rejoins.

Thane - dying, plus may want to hang with his son. Doesn't need to return

Samara - has her oaths, so who knows?

Tali - could be an admiral. Though she adopted the Normandy last name, so maybe she returns?

Legion - the geth probably have a large role. Since they are all the same, doesn't have to be Legion specifically. Also gets around him dying.

[Ulysseslotro]

I think Liara will be back. The Shadow Broker will probably be her Loyalty Mission.

[Driveninhifi]

That would be kind of odd though....she's already clearly loyal to Shepard. It really has to be an issue with her getting over her guilt, I think.

There is a lot of potential there, though. Though Shepard is back, she still could have a lot of guilt over what happened; there could be a lot of conflict in her. She has Shepard back, which is great, but she still feels she has unfinished business to really get through her grief and guilt.

Could be very compelling - though I think the ball really should have gotten started rolling in ME2.

[Nynaeve]

yeah, I think she needs to sort out her issues with SB for her own peace of mind really, she's cut up inside because of the terrible guilt she feels so this crazy revenge plan has become first and foremost in her mind, it just proves how much she cares for Shepard really..

[Sigilius]

Characters like Garrus, Tali, and soon-to-be-party-member Liara only have loyalty missions in order to keep things even in the gameplay. They're obviously already loyal to Shepard.



Never got Miranda's loyalty back after having to choose between her and Jack. My Paragon was too low to get the charm option at the time (I blasted through loyalty mission really early on), and it came down to choosing whichever option was Paragon, because they're the two characters I'm most apathetic towards... Okay, that's a lie. There's Zaeed. He absolutely and unequivocly sucks.

[wolf99000]

Sharn01 wrote...

Talon_Wu wrote...


That's the weirdest thing I've noticed about these ME2 forums. No mods, no devs. I've spent so much time in the DAO forums, where the lead writers and the rest of the devs posted with regularity, and there was interaction (still is) with the community, that this is a little...different.

I would be afraid to post as well, they have a lot more to answer for then just Liara and Kaiden/Ashely

The lets kill Shepard thing, despite having hundreds of other ways to start the story, working for Cerberus, an evil organization that was an enemy in the past game, and a worse enemy in the literature, the Collector's not so brilliant plan, the completely oblivious Council and Alliance, and the Giant Human Reaper.

It reminds me of the time I was running Vampire, yeah, I know its not a great game but it was a new game about vampire's, and for one of the player's birthday's since he was a tremendous Star War's fan so I took them to the Star War's universe, the story was pretty good, but I should have just made a one shot start wars game that was only about star wars instead of ruining the exsisting campaign, and the game was never the same again.

Granted, you learn lesson's from extremely boneheaded mistakes like that, and I am much better GM then I use to be,  but I think it reflect's the problem of ME2.

Hey, we got this cool idea so lets use it.

But it does not fit with the current content of ME1 and it will completely break story progression, we will have to come up with a really lame reason to get the game started and a really lame reason at the end to get the character's back on track. 

Who cares, look how cool the idea is, lets do it anyway.

The concept of a spin off with different character's never seemed to cross their minds. 

something I am wondering about the collector's is I am just finishing a mass effect game with ash as my LI and the ilos vi says when the reapers went back in to dark space there indoctrinated minions all died so who are the collectors then are they the one he says made it back to the citadel after they left and might have starved to death or is that another gap in the me 2 story

[wolf99000]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Well, they don't have to include everyone. They also don't have to give everyone a deep story in ME3, as you can assume certain characters' issues are resolved in ME2 (like Grunt)
From ME1:
Ash/Kaidan and Liara need to come back, otherwise why keep them alive?
Wrex probably has his hands full with the Krogan, but I'd like to see him return
ME2 (depends on if they are alive or not):
Miranda - if alive, there's no reason she wouldn't stay. especially if she resigns from cerberus
Jacob - doesn't like cerberus or the alliance, likes Shepard. Would stay
Jack - has no where else to go. May not care about the galaxy, though if she is Shep's love interest, I can't imagine she would leave him.
Garrus - probably in it for the long haul
Mordin - he's really freaking old for a salarian. maybe he hangs out on the ship?
Grunt - likes fighting, but may be needed with the Krogan. Dunno if he rejoins.
Thane - dying, plus may want to hang with his son. Doesn't need to return
Samara - has her oaths, so who knows?
Tali - could be an admiral. Though she adopted the Normandy last name, so maybe she returns?
Legion - the geth probably have a large role. Since they are all the same, doesn't have to be Legion specifically. Also gets around him dying.

well if you save everyone in 2 the way it ends with you telling the im to get lost it sort of looks like it will be the me 2 team in 3 again

they would have to put everyone in there if this is going to be the last of mass effect shepards story I dont think they will do this but they could put all the me 1 and 2 in and some new people for 3 and let us choose who we want on are team now that would be great 

[Driveninhifi]

The Ilos VI can't know too much - it's been stuck in hiding for 50,000 years. It is reasonable that they were dormant for a long time so the VI didn't know about them. Kind of smells like a ret-con though. From what I recall they are NOT the protheans that made it back onto the citadel and "fixed" the keepers. If they were, then Sovereign would have known his plan couldn't work.

[wolf99000]

well the other reapers had gone and it says sovereign went to sleep just waking every now and again to check on things before sending the signal so maybe not but just listening to that vi again makes me think bioware have got a massive job trying to tie it all together just take that they took over the citadel and shut down the relays you would think they would do that this time but that would mean no game

[Estelindis]

Just popping into the thread to say that I found Liara's character in ME2 to be very out of keeping with her representation in ME1.  I can buy the fact that characters change and develop, but she's just *so* different that I have trouble reconciling it.  Even her voice sounds different - huskier, more whispery.  At first, I couldn't believe she had the same voice-actress.

I'm looking forward to reading the rest of Redemption, and with any luck there'll be some Liara DLC to bridge the gap.  But, from where I stand right now, it's difficult to stomach.

And my Shep didn't even romance Liara!  I can only imagine how miffed I'd be if she had.  (Mind you, at least one can go back to Liara whenever one wants.  There's only one little encounter with Kaidan for my Shep, and after that not all her Spectre power can conjure up a coffee with him.  Or even make her answer her email.  Gah!)