84 réponses à ce sujet

[Seagloom]

In reply to Funkcase's latest post: that's all good stuff. The more I read about this time the more excited I feel. I'm probably going to fall into a black hole of nonstop playthroughs once New Vegas is out. I just hope Obsidian doesn't start pulling the spoilers in advertisements thing BioWare did with ME & ME2. Some of those news updates seem like it. :/

[xODD7BALLx]

Cant wait for it, the Fallout/Wasteland universe is my favorite of all the games I've played.

[Godak]

I'm really looking forward to getting my reputation up with all factions, and then they can all just love me so, so, so much!

[Funkcase]

Seagloom wrote...

In reply to Funkcase's latest post: that's all good stuff. The more I read about this time the more excited I feel. I'm probably going to fall into a black hole of nonstop playthroughs once New Vegas is out. I just hope Obsidian doesn't start pulling the spoilers in advertisements thing BioWare did with ME & ME2. Some of those news updates seem like it. :/

Yeah i cant wait for this! Yeah i hope not also but tbh if they do i will probably look at it all trying to get every bit of info on it like ME2 lol. But i will try and stay away from most gameplay spoilers.

[hamskii]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

hamskii wrote...

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

Make no mistake, NV will be the apex of the WRPG scene for this year and probably the next. ★

and actually, FO3's engine lays waste to anything seen in any real-time RPG yet, and most FPS games too for that matter.

honestly? gamebryo is an awful, awful engine, sure it's easy to develop for but it's crappy for animations and buggy as hell. i can't help but wonder what would have happened if bioware had got the fallout ip instead of beth, a fallout game in unreal would be possibly too sexy for words.

Really, now? 

DA was technically outdated way before it even got released. Copy-pasting from another FO3-bashing thread on this board:

In DA,

• NPCs are little more than static signposts nailed into the ground, waiting to be read some mandatory dialog off from.
• you can't navigate over even the most minute changes in elevation, unless there's a "stairs" path pre-woven into the environment, let alone wade into water.
• you can't loot whatever equipment your enemies were using.
• EXTREMELY stiff and heavily-scripted combat encounters that you cannot avoid or escape, becoming a chore. You can't even bother positioning your party beforehand because any dialog with NPCs magically snaps the entire party back around the main character.
• Combat generally involves little more than clicking once and sitting back to watch while the AI does its thing, as you only need to keep an eye on the HP/Mana/Stamina gauges and guzzle a poultice or potion every once a while. Disappointingly, the very final encounter requires no different tactics.
• No incentive to strive for efficiency in battles because all you need to do is wait a couple seconds to get fully recharged afterwards, whereas in FO3 you have to be careful about Ammo, Addiction, Rads and repair.
• An over-simplified inventory system, and yet some people chastise FO3 for being simplistic.
• An over-abundance of dummy furniture that you can't interact with; chests etc. whereas in FO3 you can open every single container, and actually sit on chairs and lie in beds.
• Theft, successful or failed, being without consequences, beyond some more scripted encounters in Denerim.
• Ridiculously-smaller and less-detailed areas that require much longer load-times but in FO3 you can walk from one end of the Wasteland to the other without a single hiccup, on the same system.
• Fallout 3 does a way more effective job of bringing the Wasteland "home" to you than Dragon Age does of letting you experience Thedas, unless you keep reading the Codex every few steps.

and more.

NPCs in FO3,

• have their own schedules, and are doing different stuff depending on the time of day.
• can seamlessly roam the Wasteland on their own, and you can follow them.
• will comment on whatever you're looking at: "Yes, that's locked, and yes; I can see you eyeing it."
• will refer to the fact that you've been going around asking other NPCs the same things, when you bring it up with them.
• will mention other NPCs, including their absence. i.e. after Simms or Moriarty have died, they'll be referred to in the past tense.
• will mention the ei vents you've taken part it.
• will behave differently depending on how Good or Evil you've been.

amongst other things.

Not to mention the superbly-innovate character-generation process of FO3 instead of the tired-old menus-and-buttons mass thrown in your face the second you start DA.

I don't know about Mass Effect 2, but I've yet to see ANY other RPG (or FPS) that lets you do as much as Fallout 3 does. <3

these aren't engine limitations though, these are design choices. i imagine most of these could have been done in da, but because of time or by design choice or whatever. the actual gamebryo engine itself is a very weak engine, especially for a shooter, which is what fallout 3 ended up being.

[SleeplessInSigil]

hamskii wrote...

these aren't engine limitations though, these are design choices. i imagine most of these could have been done in da, but because of time or by design choice or whatever. the actual gamebryo engine itself is a very weak engine, especially for a shooter, which is what fallout 3 ended up being.

Shooter? So you'll just ignore the entire argument about DA NPCs being little more than rocks with mouths AND pretend to hand-wave that into being a non-issue, along with the less-detailed environments?


In that case, the DA engine itself is very weak for a visual novel with zero world-interaction, which is what DA ended up. <_< They should've just licensed a good Flash movie player and it could've played the same.


and sorry, but no; most of the stuff that FO3 lets you do, will not even be possible in a pointy-clicky control mechanism - like,

• Physically interacting with otherwise useless elements of the environment (barrels and other trash etc.) and using them to trigger traps from a safe distance.
• Using the environment to take cover from ranged fire, or fire from. Most pointy-clickies tend to ignore openings like grilles or holes in walls etc.
• Using the environment to ricochet grenades off walls etc. towards the target.
• Swimming, exploring underwater; 3-axis movement.
• Targeting and damaging specifics parts of an a enemy's body, even without using something like VATS.
• Attacking targets that are extremely far away. Try doing that to offscreen enemies in Dragon Age or any other overhead-view RPG and see how annoying that can be, even when the range of your spells extends to them.
• A whole another dimension with the inclusion of a vertical axis - try conceiving battles between multiple floor levels in an overhead-view pointy-clicky.

All that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface and pretty-much is an engine (and genre) limitation. Let's not get started on that here though, because we've already gone through this on the FO3 boards: FO3 Is The Future.



In any case, I'd like to call your attention to the ungodly id Software, yes, the ones who more-or-less started the term "engine" as we know it, and now working on a whole new tech to use in Rage for Bethesda's parent company, Zenimax, to be released under the Beth label...

Any gears begun to grind in there? ..yesss... Fallout 4, will definitely be something to look forward to, indeed. 

Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 17 février 2010 - 11:45 .

[Astranagant]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

hamskii wrote...

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

Make no mistake, NV will be the apex of the WRPG scene for this year and probably the next. ★

and actually, FO3's engine lays waste to anything seen in any real-time RPG yet, and most FPS games too for that matter.

honestly? gamebryo is an awful, awful engine, sure it's easy to develop for but it's crappy for animations and buggy as hell. i can't help but wonder what would have happened if bioware had got the fallout ip instead of beth, a fallout game in unreal would be possibly too sexy for words.

Really, now? 

DA was technically outdated way before it even got released. Copy-pasting from another FO3-bashing thread on this board:

In DA,

• NPCs are little more than static signposts nailed into the ground, waiting to be read some mandatory dialog off from.
  
• you can't navigate over even the most minute changes in elevation, unless there's a "stairs" path pre-woven into the environment, let alone wade into water.
  
• you can't loot whatever equipment your enemies were using.
  
• EXTREMELY stiff and heavily-scripted combat encounters that you cannot avoid or escape, becoming a chore. You can't even bother positioning your party beforehand because any dialog with NPCs magically snaps the entire party back around the main character.
  
• Combat generally involves little more than clicking once and sitting back to watch while the AI does its thing, as you only need to keep an eye on the HP/Mana/Stamina gauges and guzzle a poultice or potion every once a while. Disappointingly, the very final encounter requires no different tactics.
  
• No incentive to strive for efficiency in battles because all you need to do is wait a couple seconds to get fully recharged afterwards, whereas in FO3 you have to be careful about Ammo, Addiction, Rads and repair.
  
• An over-simplified inventory system, and yet some people chastise FO3 for being simplistic.
  
• An over-abundance of dummy furniture that you can't interact with; chests etc. whereas in FO3 you can open every single container, and actually sit on chairs and lie in beds.
  
• Theft, successful or failed, being without consequences, beyond some more scripted encounters in Denerim.
  
• Ridiculously-smaller and less-detailed areas that require much longer load-times but in FO3 you can walk from one end of the Wasteland to the other without a single hiccup, on the same system.
  
• Fallout 3 does a way more effective job of bringing the Wasteland "home" to you than Dragon Age does of letting you experience Thedas, unless you keep reading the Codex every few steps.

and more.

NPCs in FO3,

• have their own schedules, and are doing different stuff depending on the time of day.
  
• can seamlessly roam the Wasteland on their own, and you can follow them.
  
• will comment on whatever you're looking at: "Yes, that's locked, and yes; I can see you eyeing it."
  
• will refer to the fact that you've been going around asking other NPCs the same things, when you bring it up with them.
  
• will mention other NPCs, including their absence. i.e. after Simms or Moriarty have died, they'll be referred to in the past tense.
  
• will mention the events you've taken part it.
  
  
• will behave differently depending on how Good or Evil you've been.

amongst other things.

Not to mention the superbly-innovate character-generation process of FO3 instead of the tired-old menus-and-buttons mass thrown in your face the second you start DA.

I don't know about Mass Effect 2, but I've yet to see ANY other RPG (or FPS) that lets you do as much as Fallout 3 does. <3

None of your points are valid in regards to Gamebryo as a game engine, those are all examples of scripted actions which could be done in any game engine.

Gamebryo is a technically primitive and hugely buggy engine, it doesn't help that Bethesda only bothers to fix maybe 1% of the bugs in their games and even manages to create new bugs with patches (F3 1.5, for example, makes it impossible to target turrets in VATS or grenades in mid-flight, the prior version made it impossible to target grenades equipped by enemies, etc..) And there are still mountains of game-breaking bugs all over that I've encountered myself as well as seen complained about on Bethesda's official forum.

And it appears to me you've never played Fallout or Fallout 2.

[DuffyMJ]

I've read it takes place 3 years after the events of Fallout 3. I *love* that we're going to find out what's up with the NCR... things can't be good if they're only just getting to Vegas. I wonder if we'll go to Reno again too?

[Ponce de Leon]

It could just happen that president Tandi is still alive! Oooh, I can't wait for it!

[Phil5000]

No, I'm just going to play Mass Effect 2 over and over because that's the greatest role playing game of all time.