382 réponses à ce sujet

[Deviija]

Mordaedil wrote...



WELL IM SOLD

*screams in horror*

[Ryngard]

JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...
but what about that whole, the customer is always right speal?  Didn't they teach you guys that in marketing school?

Whomever came up with that saying should be beaten in the streets. The customer is almost never "right". They are usually idiots. They are usually the ones that give you the "oh and this idiot came in and did such and such" stories every day.

People throw that out to try and get away with self entitled ****ism. The majority of "customers" fell that nobody else matters but themselves and their opinion. In general they are selfish fools... at the least. All part of the NOW NOW NOW mindset that has me cynical way beyond my years.

Its the same idiots who spout "free speech" or "right to bear arms" and think that the applications they are trying to use them for are anywhere close to how they were intended to be used. 

I'm GLAD that some of the devs speak like normal people. I'm not sucking up, hell a few weeks ago one of David's posts kind of pissed me off, HOWEVER I believe that if he wants to be a jerk (which he's not, hell he is being a LOT nicer to you guys than you are being to him) he is certainly allowed to be. 

Get over yourselves and your self entitlement. You just look like a loser/whiner anyway.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Wasn't SoU like 8 hours stretching it? Yeah I was pretty disappointed at how damn short it was. Though if I remember correctly it was outsourced so that Bioware could work on Hordes, which I though was a very solid expansion pack.

[edeheusch]

To compare with other RPG expansions, I would personally be happy with an expansion with as much contain as NWN: HotU or NWN2: MotB, both this expansions were long enough to be involved in the scenario and to relaunch my interest in the games.
If DA: A is as short as NWN: SoU (for me) it won't worth its price. When I have finished SoU, I felt disappointed. The campaign was really to short and I never felt involved in the scenario. An expansion like this should never cost more than 15$ (to my point of view).  

[Proposition_Joe]

We can only dream it holds MotB quality , Ede.

I think expectations are set way to high for this expansion considering the development time, better be prepared for a 10-15 hrs grindfest and hopefully be surprised in a good way.

[Tenjac]

MEUTRIERE wrote...
One thing I never get tired of seeing is people sucking up to the man.

One thing I never get tired of is people making erroneous assumptions.   I actually have nothing to gain from "sucking up to the man", though I did enjoy getting to meet him and sitting down and having a chat at Bioware in July.  I just feel that his comments are highly enjoyable and snarky, putting in their place the people who have no right to try to dictate to others how their warped view of reality is in fact the truth and everyone else is wrong.

[GeorgeZip]

I for one am thankful some of the lead game designers are interested enough to stop in and chat with the fans. Thats really not very common. I've seen them chased away in other game forums, so lets be mature and not scare them off.



With that said I too think $40 for an average of 15 hours gameplay will "feel" like a rip-off. If you pay that kind of money, you'd expect to be able to sit down and play on and off for a week for a first play-through.



There's definitely truth in not judging the expansion purely on length. It would not be good to add trash quests of killing x number of y to fill time. I think I only completed 20 percent of Oblivion before becoming disgusted and uninstalling that expensive game for good.



The cost of the expansion is an EA call. It's a business decision, and decisions can be changed. So lets hope they drop the price to $30.

[Tenjac]

I'm curious if the same people complaining about the alleged 15 hours for $40 complained about Mass Effect's <20 hours for $50 or $60.

Modifié par Tenjac, 10 février 2010 - 04:59 .

[WreshmanMcGoo]

You guys can call it self-titlement if you want, but there's a reason a lot of these companies have run themselves into the ground the past few years and have had to outsource a lot of their development. It's because they've made terrible decisions in gaming development and an even worse job supporting it. I will say though, out of all the epic fails that EA has committed over the past 5 years, their Bioware division is spot on and seriously one of the very few bright spots in gaming right now. So, let's have faith in them and hope that continues.

As for the topic, I'm hoping the expansion is AT LEAST 15 hours and that is a relatively brisk runthrough at that. I'd hate to pay $40 for something that is less than half the length of Origins which was only $50. In fact, I spent around 50 hours on Origins on my first complete run. That's amazing bang for your buck, what's that? Less than a dollar an hour. So if it really is only 15-20 hours on a thorough runthrough, drop the price $10 and then we'll talk. I'd also rather see the demo delayed a bit and done right than rushed out and be a bug/crap fest or way too short in length. I'm sure all of us can agree on that.

This isn't self-titlement, this is me spending my hard-earned money on a product and hoping to get something worthwile out of it. Unlike a lot of younger gamers, I have a job and actually spend my own money to purchase games so it means even more to me that my money is well spent. That isn't self-entitlement, it's called common sense.

Modifié par WreshmanMcGoo, 10 février 2010 - 07:35 .

[Wishpig]

WreshmanMcGoo wrote...

You guys can call it self-titlement if you want, but there's a reason a lot of these companies have run themselves into the ground the past few years and have had to outsource a lot of their development. It's because they've made terrible decisions in gaming development and an even worse job supporting it. I will say though, out of all the epic fails that EA has committed over the past 5 years, their Bioware division is spot on and seriously one of the very few bright spots in gaming right now. So, let's have faith in them and hope that continues.

As for the topic, I'm hoping the expansion is AT LEAST 15 hours and that is a relatively brisk runthrough at that. I'd hate to pay $40 for something that is less than half the length of Origins which was only $50. In fact, I spent around 50 hours on Origins on my first complete run. That's amazing bang for your buck, what's that? Less than a dollar an hour. So if it really is only 15-20 hours on a thorough runthrough, drop the price $10 and then we'll talk.

This isn't self-titlement, this is me spending my hard-earned money on a product and hoping to get something worthwile out of it. Unlike a lot of younger gamers, I have a job and actually spend my own money to purchase games so it means even more to me that my money is well spent. That isn't self-entitlement, it's called common sense.

It should be noted that EA fell extremely short of their finacial predictions for 2009. They lost allot of money due to stupid choices, bad moves, and screwing over buyers. So I agree 100% with your post.

[WreshmanMcGoo]

Wishpig wrote...

It should be noted that EA fell extremely short of their finacial predictions for 2009. They lost allot of money due to stupid choices, bad moves, and screwing over buyers. So I agree 100% with your post.

Well, let's face it, people are just sick of buying crappy games. I know people who said they will never buy another EA game again based on their terrible efforts the past few years. Aside from Bioware, EA really doesn't have much going for it. I do enjoy their NHL games but there is little changed from year to year and it's a sports game so there's only so much you can do with it unless you have an absurd love of the game, like myself. I used to play Madden but ever since Vince Young was on the cover I haven't played it much because it just became too cluttered and just a giant cluster-you-know-what.

They haven't made a great war FPS since Medal of Honor: Allied Assault and it's expansions to be honest and those were all the way back in 2002-2004. Now they have Battlefield Bad Company 2 coming out which, judging by the PC "BETA", was a complete and total fail. You can say it's a BETA all you want but it's a BETA less than a month away from final release so basically what you see, is what you get. I'm also not keeping my hopes up for the new MOH coming out either, since some of it was also outsourced to DICE who just about ruined Battlefield. DICE is good at developing console shooters, that's it. Besides, I'm sick of modern shooters, the first Modern Warfare was great but after that it all went downhill and now the market is just saturated with them.

Like I said though, Bioware has been great despite these other shortcomings of EA. Sure, they had some dark times and crappy titles/expansions in the past, but they've really turned it around the past few years here and like I said are one of the few bright spots in gaming. There's a lot of games with great potential out there but a few things just ruin the game for a lot of people and that's why these companies are losing out. I don't know whether it's lazyness or just flat-out egomania but a lot of these developers need to get with it and be in tune with their customers. It isn't our job to sell the product, it's theirs. Yeah, the customer isn't always right but when that's your target audience, you're damn right they are. Also, judging by the sales numbers, if the customer isn't always right then the devs and company are dead wrong.

So yeah, let's have some faith in Bioware since they've really brought us nothing but gold here as of late. I will say, Dragon Age is one of the best if not the best role-playing game I've play in the past decade. It ranks right up there with Final Fantasy VIII as one of my favourites of all-time so I can't see them screwing us over in some way and tarnishing the name of such a great title they've worked so hard to build. Seems like Bioware listens to it's customers a little more than other companies and is why they've been more sucessful and held in higher regard in the gaming community in the past few years. So, let's hope that continues and see what develops over the next month before we go all crazy over unconfirmed rumors and what have you.

Modifié par WreshmanMcGoo, 10 février 2010 - 07:54 .

[Axis Swordarm]

This thread is a queue in Electronics Boutique where various people with little understanding of what they're talking about attempt to argue with the guy behind the counter.



You're not always right, not by a long shot. You're being given honest and reasonable discussion and are squandering it to act indignant because it feels better than having your perception proven to be at fault.



I loved Dragon Age, I'll be buying Awakenings and can assume from the press and details that it has more than enough quality content to make it worth purchasing. How much time I spend in game doesn't matter when that time isn't memorable, I expect it to be memorable based on what I've seen and of decent length.



If you like to judge cost by length I'd suggest that a brothel is not the best place to learn priority.

[Tenjac]

Hahaha... well put.

[JKJEDIKNIGHT]

Okay, let me clear a few things here. First, I will acknowledge that it is VERY considerate, and great on BIOWARE's part that developers and writers of their game do come to this forum to address comments and concerns. I don't know of many if any that actually do this, so do not confuse my negativity as that of ungratefulness. I'm simply expressing my thoughts, and at times they may come out in negative ways. Such is life. Obviously part of the purpose of these forums is for us (the consumers) to state our problems and concerns and I did just that. And perhaps my analogy of "the customer is always right" was the wrong one. The real point I was attempting to make from that speal was that it is simply bad marketing, or bad consumer business to argue with your consumers. It's unprofessional. And snooty sarcastic comments do not help a situation. When I go into a home with a court order to remove some dude's kids for neglect or w/e and he says "no you're not", do I say oh yeah I am and flash a court order? Yeah, cause that kind of move won't get me shot. The overall point, is you don't stop a fire by spraying it with gasoline. Case in point, the sarcastic comments.

[Dragon Age1103]

Ryngard wrote...

JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...
but what about that whole, the customer is always right speal?  Didn't they teach you guys that in marketing school?

Whomever came up with that saying should be beaten in the streets. The customer is almost never "right". They are usually idiots. They are usually the ones that give you the "oh and this idiot came in and did such and such" stories every day.

People throw that out to try and get away with self entitled ****ism. The majority of "customers" fell that nobody else matters but themselves and their opinion. In general they are selfish fools... at the least. All part of the NOW NOW NOW mindset that has me cynical way beyond my years.

Its the same idiots who spout "free speech" or "right to bear arms" and think that the applications they are trying to use them for are anywhere close to how they were intended to be used. 

I'm GLAD that some of the devs speak like normal people. I'm not sucking up, hell a few weeks ago one of David's posts kind of pissed me off, HOWEVER I believe that if he wants to be a jerk (which he's not, hell he is being a LOT nicer to you guys than you are being to him) he is certainly allowed to be. 

Get over yourselves and your self entitlement. You just look like a loser/whiner anyway.

haha I love passionate hippies! You go passionate-hippie-o-doom!!!

[Dragon Age1103]

I see everyone is still super bent on arguing about length when we have no clue what so ever how long it will be. haha. Oh wait yes we do, we basically have a guarantee of 15 hours minimum which really isn't too bad at all.

Also like to add to a few other posts in saying I agree. Thank you very much for all the people from Bioware stopping by to chat every once in a while whether you be from the writing team or one of the devs. We all really appreciate you guys/gals taking the time to talk to the fans.

[Ibby1kanobi]

David Gaider wrote...

If you guys that actually respond here on the community (Chris, David, Ferret etc) have no say in the prices of your products, then kindly tell us who does, and maybe we'll bring our gripes to them.  Point me in the direction and I'll say my peace, I've no problems doing that obviously

What you are looking for is our publisher -- EA. We are developers, as in the people actually making the game. That's it.

Ehh....Again with all due respect, Bioware does have a say in pricing. It's their content being sold, EA just sells it. Find a new publisher that doesn't look to rip people off. If there's one thing you guys should understand (from all your Paragon/Renegade game) that the actions of your publisher reflects on your company as well.

I'm sure a number of developers would be happy to pick up a company as successful as yours.

Either that or discuss it with them....I'm sure you could convince them to stop ripping your fans off.

Modifié par Ibby1kanobi, 10 février 2010 - 11:15 .

[flem1]

Dragon Age1103 wrote...

I see everyone is still super bent on arguing about length when we have no clue what so ever how long it will be. haha. Oh wait yes we do, we basically have a guarantee of 15 hours minimum which really isn't too bad at all.

You're delusional.  All mentioned lengths for post-release content have been measured extremely generously.

It's too bad David has to take the heat for stuff that's not his decision (he's the writer, not the corporate guy), but that's not our fault, it's EA's.

[Axis Swordarm]

JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...

Okay, let me clear a few things here. First, I will acknowledge that it is VERY considerate, and great on BIOWARE's part that developers and writers of their game do come to this forum to address comments and concerns. I don't know of many if any that actually do this, so do not confuse my negativity as that of ungratefulness. I'm simply expressing my thoughts, and at times they may come out in negative ways. Such is life. Obviously part of the purpose of these forums is for us (the consumers) to state our problems and concerns and I did just that. And perhaps my analogy of "the customer is always right" was the wrong one. The real point I was attempting to make from that speal was that it is simply bad marketing, or bad consumer business to argue with your consumers. It's unprofessional. And snooty sarcastic comments do not help a situation. When I go into a home with a court order to remove some dude's kids for neglect or w/e and he says "no you're not", do I say oh yeah I am and flash a court order? Yeah, cause that kind of move won't get me shot. The overall point, is you don't stop a fire by spraying it with gasoline. Case in point, the sarcastic comments.

When you begin questioning rudely and occasionally wrong , yet consider your opinion to be factually correct you're not always going to be treated well.  Community Management is an art and it doesn't  consist of agreeing with your players, that doesn't work and neither does speaking in a robotic middle of the line tone.  You correct them, occasionally this had to be done in a way that brooks no real arguement and if players want to continue making statements that are false they can't be treated as though they're right.

Community interaction isn't his job, they come here when they get a chance and answer questions people are asking.  How they respond is their call and they're not being abusive when they point out fallacies or make your points look silly.  They could either not post at all, post once and not respond to replies or keep the interaction which makes the boards worth reading.

At the cost of a few hurt feelings when bad analogies or overwrought claims are speared, I'm happy with the third option.  Were your points being championed and my outrage being unveiled as a touch silly most would be happy I was being told I'm wrong in an entertaining way and not simply allowed to continue saying anything I please without someone stepping in to dispute it.

[Dragon Age1103]

flem1 wrote...

Dragon Age1103 wrote...

I see everyone is still super bent on arguing about length when we have no clue what so ever how long it will be. haha. Oh wait yes we do, we basically have a guarantee of 15 hours minimum which really isn't too bad at all.

You're delusional.  All mentioned lengths for post-release content have been measured extremely generously.

It's too bad David has to take the heat for stuff that's not his decision (he's the writer, not the corporate guy), but that's not our fault, it's EA's.

  How am I delusional, by being able to do basic math? Ah yes I see your wisdom now. Thank you so much for everything, really. You have enlightened me a great deal today.

[Axis Swordarm]

Ibby1kanobi wrote...


Ehh....Again with all due respect, Bioware does have a say in pricing. It's their content being sold, EA just sells it. Find a new publisher that doesn't look to rip people off. If there's one thing you guys should understand (from all your Paragon/Renegade game) that the actions of your publisher reflects on your company as well.

I'm sure a number of developers would be happy to pick up a company as successful as yours.

Either that or discuss it with them....I'm sure you could convince them to stop ripping your fans off.

EA own Bioware, the costs are more than reasonable for expansion packs.  Shop around and find a good price instead of taking the rrp as gospel is my advice.  EA haven't been the devil for a while now, I can understand some consumers like narrative in their hobby but EA stopped being a heel a while back.

Keep up with the storyline we're supposed to be booing Activision these days as he clubs small development studios with a steel chair.

[Wishpig]

Ibby1kanobi wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

If you guys that actually respond here on the community (Chris, David, Ferret etc) have no say in the prices of your products, then kindly tell us who does, and maybe we'll bring our gripes to them.  Point me in the direction and I'll say my peace, I've no problems doing that obviously

What you are looking for is our publisher -- EA. We are developers, as in the people actually making the game. That's it.

Ehh....Again with all due respect, Bioware does have a say in pricing. It's their content being sold, EA just sells it. Find a new publisher that doesn't look to rip people off. If there's one thing you guys should understand (from all your Paragon/Renegade game) that the actions of your publisher reflects on your company as well.

I'm sure a number of developers would be happy to pick up a company as successful as yours.

Either that or discuss it with them....I'm sure you could convince them to stop ripping your fans off.

You are seriously telling the dev how it works... HE KNOWS YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE. I mean christ dude, it's his job.

[Dragon Age1103]

Axis Swordarm wrote...

JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...

Okay, let me clear a few things here. First, I will acknowledge that it is VERY considerate, and great on BIOWARE's part that developers and writers of their game do come to this forum to address comments and concerns. I don't know of many if any that actually do this, so do not confuse my negativity as that of ungratefulness. I'm simply expressing my thoughts, and at times they may come out in negative ways. Such is life. Obviously part of the purpose of these forums is for us (the consumers) to state our problems and concerns and I did just that. And perhaps my analogy of "the customer is always right" was the wrong one. The real point I was attempting to make from that speal was that it is simply bad marketing, or bad consumer business to argue with your consumers. It's unprofessional. And snooty sarcastic comments do not help a situation. When I go into a home with a court order to remove some dude's kids for neglect or w/e and he says "no you're not", do I say oh yeah I am and flash a court order? Yeah, cause that kind of move won't get me shot. The overall point, is you don't stop a fire by spraying it with gasoline. Case in point, the sarcastic comments.

When you begin questioning rudely and occasionally wrong , yet consider your opinion to be factually correct you're not always going to be treated well.  Community Management is an art and it doesn't  consist of agreeing with your players, that doesn't work and neither does speaking in a robotic middle of the line tone.  You correct them, occasionally this had to be done in a way that brooks no real arguement and if players want to continue making statements that are false they can't be treated as though they're right.

Community interaction isn't his job, they come here when they get a chance and answer questions people are asking.  How they respond is their call and they're not being abusive when they point out fallacies or make your points look silly.  They could either not post at all, post once and not respond to replies or keep the interaction which makes the boards worth reading.

At the cost of a few hurt feelings when bad analogies or overwrought claims are speared, I'm happy with the third option.  Were your points being championed and my outrage being unveiled as a touch silly most would be happy I was being told I'm wrong in an entertaining way and not simply allowed to continue saying anything I please without someone stepping in to dispute it.

psst. buddy, you're fighting a losing battle. lol. Sadly most feel if it isn't a certain length then it isn't worth money. I feel Awakening should be about 15 hours or more for your average gamer but mostly content is my concern which is a mild concern considering we get new weapons, items, armor, talents, spells, specializations & more. I'm pretty happy with everything but the price but complaining about that won't change anything but an outraged PC community(don't know if we are outraged? are we!) might change the price for the next expansion by a large amount of ppl pirating Awakening due to price for PC gamers which good have positive or negative effects on the next DLC's/expansion price.
   I just like to come on here to read ppl's silly responses & watch them all get worked up basically over nothing! always a good way to kill time

[DragonDefender]

Ryngard wrote...

JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...
but what about that whole, the customer is always right speal?  Didn't they teach you guys that in marketing school?

Whomever came up with that saying should be beaten in the streets. The customer is almost never "right". They are usually idiots. They are usually the ones that give you the "oh and this idiot came in and did such and such" stories every day.

People throw that out to try and get away with self entitled ****ism. The majority of "customers" fell that nobody else matters but themselves and their opinion. In general they are selfish fools... at the least. All part of the NOW NOW NOW mindset that has me cynical way beyond my years.

Its the same idiots who spout "free speech" or "right to bear arms" and think that the applications they are trying to use them for are anywhere close to how they were intended to be used. 

I'm GLAD that some of the devs speak like normal people. I'm not sucking up, hell a few weeks ago one of David's posts kind of pissed me off, HOWEVER I believe that if he wants to be a jerk (which he's not, hell he is being a LOT nicer to you guys than you are being to him) he is certainly allowed to be. 

Get over yourselves and your self entitlement. You just look like a loser/whiner anyway.

 Im sorry but the refrence to free speech and right to bear arms just makes you look like the proverbial idiot who either does not respect the constitution or understand the words written within it.

 To comment on your " The customer is almost never right ' rhetoric it is obvious you have never owned a buisness or atleat not a very succesful one, if you do not make customers feel as what they think matters then you will lose your base of income. Sorry to tell you this if you are a jack azz to customers you WILL lose the buisness they supply.

[Dragon Age1103]

Wishpig wrote...

Ibby1kanobi wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

If you guys that actually respond here on the community (Chris, David, Ferret etc) have no say in the prices of your products, then kindly tell us who does, and maybe we'll bring our gripes to them.  Point me in the direction and I'll say my peace, I've no problems doing that obviously

What you are looking for is our publisher -- EA. We are developers, as in the people actually making the game. That's it.

Ehh....Again with all due respect, Bioware does have a say in pricing. It's their content being sold, EA just sells it. Find a new publisher that doesn't look to rip people off. If there's one thing you guys should understand (from all your Paragon/Renegade game) that the actions of your publisher reflects on your company as well.

I'm sure a number of developers would be happy to pick up a company as successful as yours.

Either that or discuss it with them....I'm sure you could convince them to stop ripping your fans off.

You are seriously telling the dev how it works... HE KNOWS YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE. I mean christ dude, it's his job.

 I admit I have NO clue but I am sure there is a lot of legal binding such as contracts each side must fullfill for so many months or years if not I still doubt EA will ask for feedback from Bioware for very little. $40 isn't going to change, personally I wouldn't be so upset by it if they didn't accidentally originally post it as $30 then raise & also fail to raise it for consoles. Either way no gamer is going to change anything. They can charge what they want & they will. 4 million pirated copies of MW2 didn't stop infinityward from making a boat load of money.