382 réponses à ce sujet

[Justin2k]

I will buy it, I will enjoy it and I will wish it didn't end and want more. But I won't regret it.

15 hours of Dragon Age or Mass Effect > about 95% of full price games out there in my personal opinion. I suggest you follow the developers advice and just do not buy it if you are unhappy, theres plenty of us that will.

I always take longer with these things anyway.. will probably squeeze at least 20 hours of it plus replays.

to bioware for making this!!!!

Modifié par Justin2k, 10 février 2010 - 11:48 .

[JKJEDIKNIGHT]

I'm not going to continue to debate whether the sarcasm was professional or not, if you think being sarcastic and snotty to your customers is good business practice, then good luck in the business world son. It was my opinion and I've stated it, the end. He gave me the people to go haggle about the price and I will, but how about we do a community poll here just to see how "outraged" people are about the current price of Awakening?

[Axis Swordarm]

DragonDefender wrote
 Im sorry but the refrence to free speech and right to bear arms just makes you look like the proverbial idiot who either does not respect the constitution or understand the words written within it.

 To comment on your " The customer is almost never right ' rhetoric it is obvious you have never owned a buisness or atleat not a very succesful one, if you do not make customers feel as what they think matters then you will lose your base of income. Sorry to tell you this if you are a jack azz to customers you WILL lose the buisness they supply.

Some of us don't care for it because we're not part of the US and feel that it gets brought up in ridiculous situations far too often in discussion with people from the States.  As an example I see people referring to Freedom of speech as applying to forum boards which is always inaccurate.

The Customer is always right is not valid.  By shutting up one customer who harms your business you can invite many more to do business with you, workers don't need to sit and put up with abuse or inaccuracies and by knowing their management have their back on common sense issues when dealing with customers who are wrong you create a better and more efficient workplace.

If your customers are trying to put themselves in your shoes and spreading false information to other customers then shutting them down is the wise option.  Especially in gaming where said customers will likely purchase your goods anyway.  There is a huge backlash to the customer is always right mentality from numerous businesses top to bottom and knowing when to turn away a customer who is more trouble than they're worth from a stress perspective is how things work.

If you're willing to let your staff in any workplace lose faith in you because you back an idiot then you are not a good manager.  Sorry for taking this off topic, but it's an old phrase that has no place in modern business.

[Dragon Age1103]

Justin2k wrote...

I will buy it, I will enjoy it and I will wish it didn't end and want more. But I won't regret it.

15 hours of Dragon Age or Mass Effect > about 95% of full price games out there in my personal opinion. I suggest you follow the developers advice and just do not buy it if you are unhappy, theres plenty of us that will.

I always take longer with these things anyway.. will probably squeeze at least 20 hours of it plus replays.

to bioware for making this!!!!

  I can completely agree with everything you said. Even comparing 15 hours to most RPGs that is pretty darn good for an expansion conisdering a full blown & full priced game can be 10-25 hours.
   This isn't fun agreeing, I like to fuel the fire & watch the debate burn!!!!!! lol.

[Justin2k]

As a customer service professional in England I have to say that we tell customers on a daily basis that if they are unhappy we are sorry but deal with it or go somewhere else. Because in our business we can. Most of the people complaining about the price will buy it anyway, and the people who do not will probably not have bought it because of the price, and not because the company said something to them.



He's just giving it to you straight. You buy or don't buy. He cannot force you, but he is not going to be out of a job whether you do or don't. Customers are important, but they are not always right and they are expendable in certain circumstances.

[Axis Swordarm]

JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...

I'm not going to continue to debate whether the sarcasm was professional or not, if you think being sarcastic and snotty to your customers is good business practice, then good luck in the business world son. It was my opinion and I've stated it, the end. He gave me the people to go haggle about the price and I will, but how about we do a community poll here just to see how "outraged" people are about the current price of Awakening?

This isn't the business world, this is a gaming forum and you are not a rich Japanese investor.  If you do a poll then you'll prove absolutely nothing as they skew toward the extreme opinion.  I'm not outraged so I won't vote as it has no impact on me and all you'll be left with is an inaccurate poll from which to draw data and have an ineffectual arguement.

We can assume that the publisher actually has its ear to the ground about trends and costs for modern gaming and likewise understands that once it hits shelves the RRP is likely to be undercut across many retailers.  Marketing data and knowing what people are willing to pay is not something that can be judged from the opinion of someone who believes they are objectively right on the forums.  You're also not thinking of lifetime sales, simply day one which marks you as a buyer.

You want to buy it day one so you want the price to be less, that's understandable so do many people.  So what happens when you see it for sale at €19.99 on play or in a store, you'll purchase it as it is good deal.  Over time the initial rush is gone but people will still be purchasing, you may not buy it day one or even week one but at some point the cost drops into your zone and you'll pick it up.

Meanwhile the RRP serves as what just under the majority are willing to pay.  Feel free to do your poll, but I'd recommend looking at industry trends and figures first otherwise you'll just come back with little more than something that says "people like to buy things cheaply".

[WreshmanMcGoo]

Yeah, since when did a company ever need customers *rolls eyes* THIS is why so many companies are going bankrupt and forcing to merge or sell out their resources, with masterminds like this running them.

Yeah, if you don't like it, go buy somewhere else. Yeah, that works great for companies, I bet. Let's just ask GM how that went or the local Dodge dealer I refused to buy off of two weeks ago who lost a 30K sell while another dealer gained it all over a few minor options. Yeah, the customer isn't always right but this egomania that has developed amongst large corporations has twisted them into thinking not only is the customer not always right but that they themselves are never wrong. "Nobody is buying out product? Hmm, must be something wrong with them. It can't be our product in the least." I swear, sometimes I wonder if half of the people that make comments similar to that even graduated high-school.

Come on guys, let's just have faith in Bioware because we can all AGREE that they've made nothing but great games the past few years as a whole and even if they are a division of EA at the moment, they pretty much do their own thing and that thing is great.

Let's see what develops over the next month or so. It's just a rumour right now and it's a minimum 15-20 hour runthrough then I don't have any gripes with it as long as that's not a generous estimate and merely a brisk runthrough without many sidequests. Considering how long and epic Origins is, I doubt they'd screw us over in terms of length in a full-fledged expansion.  Even if it is a little on the short side, I'm sure the story and gameplay will be great. I can think of quite a few games I've spent more money on this past year that I cannot even say that of. So come on guys, let's have some faith in Bioware to bring us a great game.

Modifié par WreshmanMcGoo, 11 février 2010 - 12:18 .

[JKJEDIKNIGHT]

Axis Swordarm wrote...

DragonDefender wrote
 Im sorry but the refrence to free speech and right to bear arms just makes you look like the proverbial idiot who either does not respect the constitution or understand the words written within it.

 To comment on your " The customer is almost never right ' rhetoric it is obvious you have never owned a buisness or atleat not a very succesful one, if you do not make customers feel as what they think matters then you will lose your base of income. Sorry to tell you this if you are a jack azz to customers you WILL lose the buisness they supply.

Some of us don't care for it because we're not part of the US and feel that it gets brought up in ridiculous situations far too often in discussion with people from the States.  As an example I see people referring to Freedom of speech as applying to forum boards which is always inaccurate.

The Customer is always right is not valid.  By shutting up one customer who harms your business you can invite many more to do business with you, workers don't need to sit and put up with abuse or inaccuracies and by knowing their management have their back on common sense issues when dealing with customers who are wrong you create a better and more efficient workplace.

If your customers are trying to put themselves in your shoes and spreading false information to other customers then shutting them down is the wise option.  Especially in gaming where said customers will likely purchase your goods anyway.  There is a huge backlash to the customer is always right mentality from numerous businesses top to bottom and knowing when to turn away a customer who is more trouble than they're worth from a stress perspective is how things work.

If you're willing to let your staff in any workplace lose faith in you because you back an idiot then you are not a good manager.  Sorry for taking this off topic, but it's an old phrase that has no place in modern business.

What the hell are you talking about?  Spreading false information?  At what point did I start preaching out false information?  I said I didn't believe their claims of getting 15 hours out of Awakening in lieu of the fact that I was told I'd get 80 hours out of Origins, and I could put 3 of my most complete characters together and barely get that.  My opinion, and that's all it is, is that it's very unlikely I will get anywhere near 15 hours in Awakening.  If stating my review if you will of my experience with Origins and how it plays against their claim of 15 hours is spreading false information, then jeeze, burn me on a post, start the witch hunts.

[Justin2k]

WreshmanMcGoo wrote...

Yeah, since when did a company ever need customers *rolls eyes* THIS is why so many companies are going bankrupt and forcing to merge or sell out their resources, with masterminds like this running them.

Yeah, if you don't like it, go buy somewhere else. Yeah, that works great for companies, I bet. Let's just ask GM how that went or the local Dodge dealer I refused to buy off of two weeks ago who lost a 30K sell while someone else gained it over a few minor options. Yeah, the customer isn't always right but this egomania that has developed amongst large corporations has twisted them into thinking not only is the customer not always right but that they themselves are never wrong. "Nobody is buying out product? Hmm, must be something wrong with them. It can't be our product in the least." I swear, sometimes I wonder if half of the people that make comments like that even graduated high-school.

You are missing the point slightly.  I work in one of the top hotel companies in the world.  And we do whatever we can for our customers and deliver the best service possible.  And if someone has a complaint we do our best to resolve it.  But there are times where a customer will ask something which we simply cannot give.  I.e "there was a slight scratch on the wall, i want a full refund or i am never coming here again".  We will apologise and explain the situation but we are not going to give a full refund for a small scratch on a wall.  If the guest says "well thats it, i'm never using you again" we say "I'm very sorry you feel like that".  If he becomes abusive, then security will eventually throw him out.

We don't need him as an individual as we have millions of customers a year.  We'd rather keep every customer of course, but not at the price of doing everything we are asked.  The developer in this instance cannot, will not and probably doesnt think he should lower the price of the game.  He'd rather customer bought it sure, but if customer isn't going to buy it and is going to refuse to ever buy a bioware product again, what can he do about it?  And how much abuse should he take before he gives up?

We put the phone down on people eventually, simply because we have to because it gets nowhere.  Some customers cannot be satisfied, and in that case theres nothing we can do.  And we still have jobs because most of our customers are not like that and are happy with the service.

That is the point.  Sometimes it is the customer in the wrong, not the company or its price or its product.  And sometimes its best to get a disgruntled customer banned from forums, or taken out of the hotel lobby because they will deter the customers that are happy away.

Modifié par Justin2k, 11 février 2010 - 12:24 .

[Dragon Age1103]

JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...

Axis Swordarm wrote...

DragonDefender wrote
 Im sorry but the refrence to free speech and right to bear arms just makes you look like the proverbial idiot who either does not respect the constitution or understand the words written within it.

 To comment on your " The customer is almost never right ' rhetoric it is obvious you have never owned a buisness or atleat not a very succesful one, if you do not make customers feel as what they think matters then you will lose your base of income. Sorry to tell you this if you are a jack azz to customers you WILL lose the buisness they supply.

Some of us don't care for it because we're not part of the US and feel that it gets brought up in ridiculous situations far too often in discussion with people from the States.  As an example I see people referring to Freedom of speech as applying to forum boards which is always inaccurate.

The Customer is always right is not valid.  By shutting up one customer who harms your business you can invite many more to do business with you, workers don't need to sit and put up with abuse or inaccuracies and by knowing their management have their back on common sense issues when dealing with customers who are wrong you create a better and more efficient workplace.

If your customers are trying to put themselves in your shoes and spreading false information to other customers then shutting them down is the wise option.  Especially in gaming where said customers will likely purchase your goods anyway.  There is a huge backlash to the customer is always right mentality from numerous businesses top to bottom and knowing when to turn away a customer who is more trouble than they're worth from a stress perspective is how things work.

If you're willing to let your staff in any workplace lose faith in you because you back an idiot then you are not a good manager.  Sorry for taking this off topic, but it's an old phrase that has no place in modern business.

What the hell are you talking about?  Spreading false information?  At what point did I start preaching out false information?  I said I didn't believe their claims of getting 15 hours out of Awakening in lieu of the fact that I was told I'd get 80 hours out of Origins, and I could put 3 of my most complete characters together and barely get that.  My opinion, and that's all it is, is that it's very unlikely I will get anywhere near 15 hours in Awakening.  If stating my review if you will of my experience with Origins and how it plays against their claim of 15 hours is spreading false information, then jeeze, burn me on a post, start the witch hunts.

  I"m not sure where you are getting your info can you please give me a link to yuor sources? Bioware to my knowledge NEVER not once claimed 80 hours. A few reviews from different websites did. The only fact I recall Bioware had was "it depends on the player" for how much you will get out of DA:O. I got 81 hours! so once again not sure what your source is but it would be nice to have something to back your claim that Bioware promised 80 hours or more to fans.

[WreshmanMcGoo]

Justin2k wrote...

You are missing the point slightly.  I work in one of the top hotel companies in the world.  And we do whatever we can for our customers and deliver the best service possible.  And if someone has a complaint we do our best to resolve it.  But there are times where a customer will ask something which we simply cannot give.  I.e "there was a slight scratch on the wall, i want a full refund or i am never coming here again".  We will apologise and explain the situation but we are not going to give a full refund for a small scratch on a wall.  If the guest says "well thats it, i'm never using you again" we say "I'm very sorry you feel like that".  If he becomes abusive, then security will eventually throw him out.

We don't need him as an individual as we have millions of customers a year.  We'd rather keep every customer of course, but not at the price of doing everything we are asked.  The developer in this instance cannot, will not and probably doesnt think he should lower the price of the game.  He'd rather customer bought it sure, but if customer isn't going to buy it and is going to refuse to ever buy a bioware product again, what can he do about it?  And how much abuse should he take before he gives up?

We put the phone down on people eventually, simply because we have to because it gets nowhere.  Some customers cannot be satisfied, and in that case theres nothing we can do.  And we still have jobs because most of our customers are not like that and are happy with the service.

That is the point.  Sometimes it is the customer in the wrong, not the company or its price or its product.  And sometimes its best to get a disgruntled customer banned from forums, or taken out of the hotel lobby because they will deter the customers that are happy away.

On the contrary my compatriot, you are missing the point slightly. You're comparing a tiny scratch on the wall of a vast hotel room which someone is using to try and get a free ride to a primary issue and feature of a game that several people have concerns with. Also, the hotel and gaming business are completely different. Business is business but not all business is business, if you know what I mean. Just because principles or rules work and apply to one does not mean they apply to another. That's like comparing apples and...a million dollars.

Modifié par WreshmanMcGoo, 11 février 2010 - 12:30 .

[JKJEDIKNIGHT]

Justin2k wrote...

You are missing the point slightly.  I work in one of the top hotel companies in the world.  And we do whatever we can for our customers and deliver the best service possible.  And if someone has a complaint we do our best to resolve it.  But there are times where a customer will ask something which we simply cannot give.  I.e "there was a slight scratch on the wall, i want a full refund or i am never coming here again".  We will apologise and explain the situation but we are not going to give a full refund for a small scratch on a wall.  If the guest says "well thats it, i'm never using you again" we say "I'm very sorry you feel like that".  If he becomes abusive, then security will eventually throw him out.

We don't need him as an individual.  We'd rather keep every customer of course, but not at the price of doing everything we are asked.  The developer in this instance cannot, will not and probably doesnt think he should lower the price of the game.  He'd rather customer bought it sure, but if customer isn't going to buy it and is going to refuse to ever buy a bioware product again, what can he do about it?  And how much abuse should he take before he gives up?

We put the phone down on people eventually, simply because we have to because it gets nowhere.  Some customers cannot be satisfied, and in that case theres nothing we can do.  And we still have jobs because most of our customers are not like that and are happy with the service.

That is the point.  Sometimes it is the customer in the wrong, not the company or its price or its product.  And sometimes its best to get a disgruntled customer banned from forums, or taken out of the hotel lobby because they will deter the customers that are happy away.

Considering the first comment that was made to the "unhappy" customer was one of sarcasm and nastiness, I would say that is a tad bit inappropriate, wouldn't you?  Had he stated his peace about "we don't price it, EA does" and left it at that and then I continued my banter and trashing of him and whoever else, then retaliation MAY be acceptable.  But you don't immediately start throwing mud back in your customers face.  Just as you explained in your post.  Your management staff explains the issue, and then if the customer continues, you do something further about it.  Had the nasty comment not been there, this would have never come to pass.

[Axis Swordarm]

WreshmanMcGoo wrote...

Stuff.

Sure there is terrible customer service, that is a different thing to having the engineer of the car come out and explain why the car can't fly as customers try and say that it can. 

[Justin2k]

I do apologise. I haven't read every comment and post yet. I was just commenting on the "every company needs to keep its customers" statement. Which is true, but theres sometimes when you just cannot. It wasn't really in relation to anything that has been said on here and no offense meant :-) .



Personally, I feel everything Bioware have touched the last few months has been gold, so I'm happy to go for this, but I do see why some people are not. It may be best to wait for its release and then make the decision based on reviews and opinions.

[Axis Swordarm]

JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...

What the hell are you talking about?  Spreading false information?  At what point did I start preaching out false information?  I said I didn't believe their claims of getting 15 hours out of Awakening in lieu of the fact that I was told I'd get 80 hours out of Origins, and I could put 3 of my most complete characters together and barely get that.  My opinion, and that's all it is, is that it's very unlikely I will get anywhere near 15 hours in Awakening.  If stating my review if you will of my experience with Origins and how it plays against their claim of 15 hours is spreading false information, then jeeze, burn me on a post, start the witch hunts.

That wasn't directed toward you and was a generalization.  This response shows that you're a somewhat hostile interpreter of what is being said and leads me to believe you simply want to be right. 

Whenever they give hours they always state in questions that it's going to vary, I've never read a statement saying you're guaranteed x.  The responses in this thread actually confirmed what you were saying with regards to tempering expectations of an Origins size experience and getting a realistic impression, sure you may finish it quicker than most but if you played Origins three times over then it's defnitely worthwhile and you'll be playing the expansion perhaps 3 times over it has enough quality.  Trying to tie cost into price is where you went wrong and is a very subjective and silly arguement.

[MassEffect762]

I'll have to really take in everything, my cheating play style will drastically cut down the hours.(love reading plot/story, hate DA:O combat)

Modifié par MassEffect762, 11 février 2010 - 12:48 .

[JKJEDIKNIGHT]

Dragon Age1103 wrote...

  I"m not sure where you are getting your info can you please give me a link to yuor sources? Bioware to my knowledge NEVER not once claimed 80 hours. A few reviews from different websites did. The only fact I recall Bioware had was "it depends on the player" for how much you will get out of DA:O. I got 81 hours! so once again not sure what your source is but it would be nice to have something to back your claim that Bioware promised 80 hours or more to fans.

Someone at BIOWARE did, but I do not intend to search through thousands of posts here, or search the web for the interview because I don't honestly remember when or where I saw it.  I do however find it convenient that the statement about there being no level cap has mysteriously vanished from the "GAME" section of the Dragonage.com website where all the initial FAQ information about the game was before it was released.  Must be since we all know there is now they felt they better take that part down.  Do I need to post where the 15 hours was posted?  Maybe we can save that so when 3/17/10 is here and we've all, already whipped through DA:A in 7 hours and I can say "I told you so"?  I will watch with great enthusiasm as the complaints come in about how "I paid $40 for this?"  Then we'll see how well the 2nd expansion does.

[JKJEDIKNIGHT]

Axis Swordarm wrote...

That wasn't directed toward you and was a generalization.  This response shows that you're a somewhat hostile interpreter of what is being said and leads me to believe you simply want to be right. 

Whenever they give hours they always state in questions that it's going to vary, I've never read a statement saying you're guaranteed x.  The responses in this thread actually confirmed what you were saying with regards to tempering expectations of an Origins size experience and getting a realistic impression, sure you may finish it quicker than most but if you played Origins three times over then it's defnitely worthwhile and you'll be playing the expansion perhaps 3 times over it has enough quality.  Trying to tie cost into price is where you went wrong and is a very subjective and silly arguement.

Because getting value for my $ is a silly idea in this day and age, I know right?  So say I played Origins 3 times at 30 hours a piece, that's 90 hours for 60 bucks.  Not a horrible investment.  Then say I play Awakening 3 times at what I guess will be 7 hours a piece, that comes out to 21 hours for 40 bucks.  Does that seem like a good investment? 

[Axis Swordarm]

JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote..

Because getting value for my $ is a silly idea in this day and age, I know right?  So say I played Origins 3 times at 30 hours a piece, that's 90 hours for 60 bucks.  Not a horrible investment.  Then say I play Awakening 3 times at what I guess will be 7 hours a piece, that comes out to 21 hours for 40 bucks.  Does that seem like a good investment? 

It seems like a great one considering you enjoyed it enough to play through 3 times.

[rogue1983]

Axis Swordarm wrote...

JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...

What the hell are you talking about?  Spreading false information?  At what point did I start preaching out false information?  I said I didn't believe their claims of getting 15 hours out of Awakening in lieu of the fact that I was told I'd get 80 hours out of Origins, and I could put 3 of my most complete characters together and barely get that.  My opinion, and that's all it is, is that it's very unlikely I will get anywhere near 15 hours in Awakening.  If stating my review if you will of my experience with Origins and how it plays against their claim of 15 hours is spreading false information, then jeeze, burn me on a post, start the witch hunts.

That wasn't directed toward you and was a generalization.  This response shows that you're a somewhat hostile interpreter of what is being said and leads me to believe you simply want to be right. 

Whenever they give hours they always state in questions that it's going to vary, I've never read a statement saying you're guaranteed x.  The responses in this thread actually confirmed what you were saying with regards to tempering expectations of an Origins size experience and getting a realistic impression, sure you may finish it quicker than most but if you played Origins three times over then it's defnitely worthwhile and you'll be playing the expansion perhaps 3 times over it has enough quality.  Trying to tie cost into price is where you went wrong and is a very subjective and silly arguement.

can you take your arguement to pm because your just making yourself look like an ass we get you don't agree with jediknight but just to keep going is getting pretty annoying.

[rogue1983]

and no body has even said 15 hrs except for one mag. so a little confirmation from bioware stating it even would be around 15 would make alot of people happy. some people are worried it could be only 8 hrs.

[Axis Swordarm]

rogue1983 wrote...
can you take your arguement to pm because
your just making yourself look like an ass we get you don't agree with
jediknight but just to keep going is getting pretty annoying.

No
problem, I wasn't replying to him in the original response.  We'd
drifted off topic but he thought I was talking to him specifically.

[JKJEDIKNIGHT]

rogue1983 wrote...

and no body has even said 15 hrs except for one mag. so a little confirmation from bioware stating it even would be around 15 would make alot of people happy. some people are worried it could be only 8 hrs.

So then we appear to be back to where we were with the complaints about Ostagar.  No information.  Obviously I don't expect for them to lay out the whole plot of the game, but amidst the apparent concern over the content of the game, perhaps it would sooth some minds if BIOWARE gave a real approximation of what we could look at in terms of content, time wise for Awakening.  Instead of tiptoeing around the concerns with comments about "time isn't important".  Which basically throws out a huge red flag to me that this baby won't reach 10 hours.  Victor, get the community some feedback please!!!!

[WreshmanMcGoo]

NO WAY I'm getting it if it's only around 10 hours. Any gamer with any common sense wouldn't by that game. it should be AT LEAST 15-20, especially with that big $40 price tag. That's a relatively brisk runthrough at that. Like I said though, let's not get ahead of ourselves and wait until more info comes out.

Modifié par WreshmanMcGoo, 11 février 2010 - 02:16 .

[DragonDefender]

 This is my view on this topic, if Bioware screws us with this expansion then when  they release whatever comes next we will just walk to the box, pick it up look over the back and then move on to something else when the memory of WK, RtO, and Awakings comes fresh to our minds. I dont have a problem wasting $40 one time, but I surely will not do it a second time.

 That being said so far with exceptions in DLC I have been very happy with Bioware over the last few years so have many people and this shows with their bottom line growing every year. When the Dev's or whoever start thinking they can hand us whatever it is they want for us is when the bottom line will shrink. With that being said so far Bioware has done right by me and I have faith that Awakings will be thebest expansion that Bioware can possibly make it, and if there is another expansion I would think Bioware would agian ask it loyal customer base agian what they would like in the game get a general idea from the fans and go from there.

MAKE MINE BIOWARE !!!!! ( Yeah I am kinda a fanboy)