382 réponses à ce sujet

[Wishpig]

Dragon Age1103 wrote...

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

   I can agree with that but I think some people are just scared of being lied to or having a play on words used again. DA:O was said to be 80-120 from most previews & reviews but for most average gamers it is 40-60 hours so a lot of people probably just fear the same for Awakening b/c if it is 15 hours then it is probably actually 5-7 for most ppl & 15 for the people that sniff out every last quest & codex entry. I still say 20-25 hours.

Yes, dead on, this is certainly one of my chief concerns. Bioware does not lie to us, but rather stretches the truth in their favor when it comes to the lengths of games. The average gamer playing sometimes FAR less then the claimed length.

Bioware has proven to me time and time agian they make high quality products. Just as much as they proved that... they also proved taking their word for the length of a game ain't such a wise choice.

So yes, if they claim 15 hours I don't trust them.

But what I really don't get is how you guys accept this "you pay for the quality" argument. I said it before I'll say it agian, once devs start charging you by the experiance they think your gonna get... thats a very very slippery road. They should charge you the normal prices found in the medium.

The devs are quite literally saying, "we think your gonna enjoy our game allot, so we'll charge you ten more dollars then other expansion packs... and your experiance will be SO good we're just gonna ignore the whole console to pc price ratio."

HOW do you not see the problem with that? How do you not see where that leads?

PS- I won't lie, I'm prob gonna get the expansion I'm prob gonna like it. But for me this is a case of principle. It's wrong.

Modifié par Wishpig, 05 février 2010 - 08:04 .

[Posioned]

dark-lauron wrote...

Dragon Age1103 wrote...

I still don't understand why console expansions are not $50? just doesn't make sense why all of us PC ppl should have to pay more.

My guess is that EA wants to ensure there is even more pirating on this expansion. As well as make sales become poor, since there are quite some titles going out on March, are they not? So, if this is true, EA is trying to destroy BioWare on purpose. Everything is possible when we're dealing with those bas... ahem... sorry for the word...

That is the lamest excuse to justify pirating I've heard yet.

I really don't see the big deal over $40 for a exp. I've paid that for many games I play. It's standard for me.

[Dragon Age1103]

Wishpig wrote...

Dragon Age1103 wrote...

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

   I can agree with that but I think some people are just scared of being lied to or having a play on words used again. DA:O was said to be 80-120 from most previews & reviews but for most average gamers it is 40-60 hours so a lot of people probably just fear the same for Awakening b/c if it is 15 hours then it is probably actually 5-7 for most ppl & 15 for the people that sniff out every last quest & codex entry. I still say 20-25 hours.

Yes, dead on, this is certainly one of my chief concerns. Bioware does not lie to us, but rather stretches the truth in their favor when it comes to the lengths of games. The average gamer playing sometimes FAR less then the claimed length.

Bioware has proven to me time and time agian they make high quality products. Just as much as they proved that... they also proved taking their word for the length of a game ain't such a wise choice.

So yes, if they claim 15 hours I don't trust them.

But what I really don't get is how you guys accept this "you pay for the quality" argument. I said it before I'll say it agian, once devs start charging you by the experiance they think your gonna get... thats a very very slippery road. They should charge you the normal prices found in the medium.

The devs are quite literally saying, "we think your gonna enjoy our game allot, so we'll charge you ten more dollars then other expansion packs... and your experiance will be SO good we're just gonna ignore the whole console to pc price ratio."

HOW do you not see the problem with that?

   I agree it is ridiculous but Gamers get screwed all the time. look at MW2 & RE5 they wanted people(and ppl did) to pay $5 for content already on the disc plus they gave a split screen that didn't fill the screen! yet people still bought that junk game. I love resident evil but I didn't get 5 for those 2 reasons. I've said it many times but Bioware I hope all those PC pirates screw you over & pirate the crap out of awakening so you lose money for screwing us PC ppl over. We already had to wait for the console launch now a price increase that doesn't match their price...nice!

[Dragon Age1103]

Posioned wrote...

dark-lauron wrote...

Dragon Age1103 wrote...

I still don't understand why console expansions are not $50? just doesn't make sense why all of us PC ppl should have to pay more.

My guess is that EA wants to ensure there is even more pirating on this expansion. As well as make sales become poor, since there are quite some titles going out on March, are they not? So, if this is true, EA is trying to destroy BioWare on purpose. Everything is possible when we're dealing with those bas... ahem... sorry for the word...

That is the lamest excuse to justify pirating I've heard yet.

I really don't see the big deal over $40 for a exp. I've paid that for many games I play. It's standard for me.

  If it is not a big deal to you then hurray for you but I don't like paying $10 more when consoles doesn't have to. I'm sure the quality will be great(as usual) but Bioware's length is in question after all the Origins hype  claims. Point being I will not being pirating it, I love Bioware too much but I can still hope they lose a large sum of profits to piracy b/c they deserve to quality should not increase price b/c lower quality games still cost the same. Army of Two is junk & not worth my money but it launched at $59.99...bad eaxample b/c i think it got a 7 or something but point beign games that get a 4 for a rating still sell at normal price so why should Bioware or Infinty war get to say their product is better gives us more money? Quality is an opinion therefore should not effect price.

[Wishpig]

Dragon Age1103 wrote...
   I agree it is ridiculous but Gamers get screwed all the time. look at MW2 & RE5 they wanted people(and ppl did) to pay $5 for content already on the disc plus they gave a split screen that didn't fill the screen! yet people still bought that junk game. I love resident evil but I didn't get 5 for those 2 reasons. I've said it many times but Bioware I hope all those PC pirates screw you over & pirate the crap out of awakening so you lose money for screwing us PC ppl over. We already had to wait for the console launch now a price increase that doesn't match their price...nice!

If this game isn't good enough to warrent the steep price they will be shooting themselves in the foot. You can bet it will bring more bad press then Warden's Keep and RtO combined... and this time it will be fans and big sites like ign.com alike. This is more of a niche franchise the ME, it has done well, but it's not a mega money maker. You know the saying bad press is good press? Thats a lie most of the time.

I do not condone pirating. I think the pricing is EA's call, and frankly, it's gonna be the hardworking devs that get hit the most by priating. But when you ****** off PC gamers (exp Spore) they will pirate to spite the company.

[TheMadCat]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

Well it's a credible question. The primary role of your games is the telling of a tale and there is a little relation between time and quality when talking about a story. With a short game the chances of a story feeling rushed and artificial go up just as a long game increases the chances of a story feeling drug on and boring. So while it shouldn't be the sole thing to judge the value which so many people here seem to do, it is something that can be looked at to kind of gauge quality. If you guys came out and said it can be done in 8 hours, I'd be skeptical that you can tell a quality Bioware style story in that amount of time.

[Dragon Age1103]

Wishpig wrote...

Dragon Age1103 wrote...
   I agree it is ridiculous but Gamers get screwed all the time. look at MW2 & RE5 they wanted people(and ppl did) to pay $5 for content already on the disc plus they gave a split screen that didn't fill the screen! yet people still bought that junk game. I love resident evil but I didn't get 5 for those 2 reasons. I've said it many times but Bioware I hope all those PC pirates screw you over & pirate the crap out of awakening so you lose money for screwing us PC ppl over. We already had to wait for the console launch now a price increase that doesn't match their price...nice!

If this game isn't good enough to warrent the steep price they will be shooting themselves in the foot. You can bet it will bring more bad press then Warden's Keep and RtO combined... and this time it will be fans and big sites like ign.com alike. This is more of a niche franchise the ME, it has done well, but it's not a mega money maker. You know the saying bad press is good press? Thats a lie most of the time.

I do not condone pirating. I think the pricing is EA's call, and frankly, it's gonna be the hardworking devs that get hit the most by priating. But when you ****** off PC gamers (exp Spore) they will pirate to spite the company.

very very true Spore & MW2 made good money but they lost a hell of a lot as well. I know it is a terrible thing to hope but I am sick of PC gamers getting screwed over non stop. Spore, MW2, RE5, DA:O waiting for the consoles before PC launched(or so i'm told by many) lost resources to consoles ports. it is jsut getting really annoying plus we always get games months later which is a huge cause of piracy lots of ppl from work pirate PC games b/c it is jsut a port that launches 3-6 months after the console version so why pay money for something you have already played is what i hear all the time. I'm too obsessed with collecting cases to pirate games! I love my CE cases!!! lol

[Wishpig]

TheMadCat wrote...

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

Well it's a credible question. The primary role of your games is the telling of a tale and there is a little relation between time and quality when talking about a story. With a short game the chances of a story feeling rushed and artificial go up just as a long game increases the chances of a story feeling drug on and boring. So while it shouldn't be the sole thing to judge the value which so many people here seem to do, it is something that can be looked at to kind of gauge quality. If you guys came out and said it can be done in 8 hours, I'd be skeptical that you can tell a quality Bioware style story in that amount of time.

Very very good point, one I didn't even think of.

One of Origins HUGE strengths... and most bioware games... is it's massive length. Fans and critics praised Origins for the fact it was so long. Hell, one of the reasons it can compete so evenly with ME2 in my opinion. If we're told 15 hours it could easily be 10... like I said going on bioware' history I'm betting on it. Thats around 1/6 the length of Origins for only $10 less. It just does not add up.

Dragon Age1103 wrote...
very very true Spore & MW2 made
good money but they lost a hell of a lot as well. I know it is a
terrible thing to hope but I am sick of PC gamers getting screwed over
non stop. Spore, MW2, RE5, DA:O waiting for the consoles before PC
launched(or so i'm told by many) lost resources to consoles ports. it
is jsut getting really annoying plus we always get games months later
which is a huge cause of piracy lots of ppl from work pirate PC games
b/c it is jsut a port that launches 3-6 months after the console
version so why pay money for something you have already played is what
i hear all the time. I'm too obsessed with collecting cases to pirate
games! I love my CE cases!!! lol

As fat bastard once said "It's a vicious cycle"

The PC industry is hurting by the massive $$$ they lose from pirates. PC companys like EA are throwing gas on the fire by pissing PC gamers off. I don't see a fix and obviously no one does. But as a loyal gamer who actually pays for PC games, sometimes I feel like I'm the one getting screwed.

Modifié par Wishpig, 05 février 2010 - 08:27 .

[Demonic Spoon]

Yes, dead on, this is certainly one of my chief concerns. Bioware does not lie to us, but rather stretches the truth in their favor when it comes to the lengths of games. The average gamer playing sometimes FAR less then the claimed length.

No, they really don't. It's just that in most peoples' first playthroughs, they do not do EVERY SINGLE SIDEQUEST. They advertised 80 hours of content as I recall, not "80 hours in your playthrough"

Besides, I've seen quite a few people talk about taking 120+ hours on their playthroughs.

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.



Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

Quality and quantity are both important. Origins wasn't loved only because it had good storytelling. It was loved because it had A LOT of good storytelling. Origins would have been very poorly received if the game only lasted, for example, 5 hours.

lots of ppl from work pirate PC games
b/c it is jsut a port that launches 3-6 months after the console
version so why pay money for something you have already played is what
i hear all the time. I'm too obsessed with collecting cases to pirate
games! I love my CE cases!!! lol

I've heard absolutely tons of excuses for piracy. The only one which had any substance was "I'll buy it if I like it", except even that means nothing because 90% of the people who say that don't.

The people you know from work are just making excuses for themselves.

Modifié par Demonic Spoon, 05 février 2010 - 08:30 .

[flem1]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

Translation:  it's short.

[Wishpig]

Demonic Spoon wrote...

No, they really don't. It's just that in most peoples' first playthroughs, they do not do EVERY SINGLE SIDEQUEST. They advertised 80 hours of content as I recall, not "80 hours in your playthrough"

Besides, I've seen quite a few people talk about taking 120+ hours on their playthroughs.


Quality and quantity are both important. Origins wasn't loved only because it had good storytelling. It was loved because it had A LOT of good storytelling. Origins would have been very poorly received if the game only lasted, for example, 5 hours.

No they said in many interviews 60-80 hours for the average gamer. I remember cause, despite doing a few side quests and not rushing, I only totaled 50 hours. I wasn't pissed, cause 50 hours is still a long time, and I wasn't surprised as bioware frequently does it.

Those that take 120 hours are rare... and a very very small minority. I would say 40-60 is the average, from what I read on forums and reviews.

Agreed, what seperated Origins from many games is the length.

Further more, many RPGS and single player games are expected to be long, the Witcher and Drakensang come to mind. Is it wrong to expect a long RPG if I'm dropping $40 dollars? I expect multiplayer in my shooters and length in my single player RPGS. Its part of the genre.

Demonic Spoon wrote...


I've heard absolutely tons of
excuses for piracy. The only one which had any substance was "I'll buy
it if I like it", except even that means nothing because 90% of the
people who say that don't.

The people you know from work are just making excuses for themselves.

I agree once more. There is nothing to justify stealing games. Unless your Aladin because at least he sings catchy tunes while he robs people.

Modifié par Wishpig, 05 février 2010 - 08:40 .

[Kalfear]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

In a perfect world that would be the case but this not a perfect world and we paying hard earned cash (or our parents hard earned cash in some cases) for the game so wish there to be a return on game not only enjoyable but substained.

I LOVED Jade Empire, replayed it 5 times, but it still ranks lower then ME1 and 2, DA:O and KotOR on my all time list because of how short it was. Sure I enjoyed my time there but I didnt leave feeling I got my money worth by the end as the trip was over so fast.

Also, very few players rip through games at teh 24 hour pace you state. if you read these very boards, the average game length for DA:O was 60-90 hours.

So for those of us that played 60-90 hours for DA:O, how  long is the game time for this expansion? 15 hours? 20? 30? Personally as its half the price of the original game im hopeing for 35-45 hours plus worth of content.

As Ive said for DLC, for every dollar we spend we should get 1 hour of game play IMO. Bioware is going to sell well over a million copies so its not unfair for us to expect a return level of 1 hour for every million spent.

[RangerSG]

Wishpig wrote...

Dragon Age1103 wrote...

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

   I can agree with that but I think some people are just scared of being lied to or having a play on words used again. DA:O was said to be 80-120 from most previews & reviews but for most average gamers it is 40-60 hours so a lot of people probably just fear the same for Awakening b/c if it is 15 hours then it is probably actually 5-7 for most ppl & 15 for the people that sniff out every last quest & codex entry. I still say 20-25 hours.

Yes, dead on, this is certainly one of my chief concerns. Bioware does not lie to us, but rather stretches the truth in their favor when it comes to the lengths of games. The average gamer playing sometimes FAR less then the claimed length.

Bioware has proven to me time and time agian they make high quality products. Just as much as they proved that... they also proved taking their word for the length of a game ain't such a wise choice.

So yes, if they claim 15 hours I don't trust them.

But what I really don't get is how you guys accept this "you pay for the quality" argument. I said it before I'll say it agian, once devs start charging you by the experiance they think your gonna get... thats a very very slippery road. They should charge you the normal prices found in the medium.

The devs are quite literally saying, "we think your gonna enjoy our game allot, so we'll charge you ten more dollars then other expansion packs... and your experiance will be SO good we're just gonna ignore the whole console to pc price ratio."

HOW do you not see the problem with that? How do you not see where that leads?

PS- I won't lie, I'm prob gonna get the expansion I'm prob gonna like it. But for me this is a case of principle. It's wrong.

Erm, on the length of DA, this has been discussed in detail before. There is, for whatever reason, a significant difference in the length of play on console vs PC, with PC being longer.

My first playthrough was 126hours at the coronation. And I did 'not' gain the easily-sidetracked accomplishment.
My second was still almost 100 hours.

So no, I don't think "Bioware stretches the truth" when it comes to hours. I think console-players are able to get through the game more quickly, for whatever reason. And of course it makes a difference if you esc. from conversations and do not read codexes or other material.

But from my experience with Bioware games, every time I've played them the hour-rating has been SHORTER than what my actual length of play was.

[Demx]

Does anyone know how long it takes to level up 15 levels in Origins? (Without cheating) It could prove to be a rough estimate of how long Awakening will be.

[flem1]

It won't be 15 full levels.



(1) The level cap in the base game is designed to be very hard to hit

(2) Completionists will be starting the expansion over level 20, particularly after playing DLCs

[Ponce de Leon]

Siradix wrote...

Does anyone know how long it takes to level up 15 levels in Origins? (Without cheating) It could prove to be a rough estimate of how long Awakening will be.

10 hours for me. But it depends largely on what you take first. If you go with a Paragon of her Kind, then less, if quick enough, 8 hours and a half.

[Squeaker Squeak]

there's no excuse or justification for piracy. You wouldn't walk into a store and steal something just because you thought it was overpriced. I'm amazed how people who would never think of committing a real-world crime so readily commit cyber crimes.

[Ponce de Leon]

I didn't think, and neither will think about pirating, thank you. As you said, there is no justification about pirating, but pirates think they have some rights in this world. I say, burn them at the stakes.

[Thoronen]

My first play through of DA:O took me just a tad under 80 hours; I maintained a rather stable roster of Leliana, Allistair and Wynne for most of my time. I was easily sidetracked and lol'ed when I got that achievement! Now I'm going through and trying out a different origin story and will hopefully get a similar amount of time, perhaps less as I already know a lot of the history and such now perhaps more as I may change my roster a bit and give different npcs a chance.



I figure on going through each of the 6 different origins I should end up with well over 300 hours of enjoyment, which to me is easily reason enough to look forward to maybe another 100 or more from the expansion.



I know everyone probably doesn't try to squeeze as much out of their games as I, though many will. One of the things I've always loved about this genre of games (and Bioware partcularly in this genre) is the ability to try different combinations of party, gear, conversation in such a way that one wants to delve deeper and see what else may be hidden within the folds of the game.

[Stompi]

I was surprised that the first expansion will be released only 4 month after the main game.
But "the biggest expansion we will be releasing" can really mean anything. Stone Prisoner's length isn't that hard to beat.

[Demx]

I see so the expansion could be 15 hours for those who only do the main quests and know what they are doing.

[Offkorn]

RangerSG wrote...

As I noted before, you do realize that 15 hours is the standard hours rating for an RPG's expansion?

Both NWN2 expansions were rated for 15 hours.
Both NWN1 expansions were rated 15hours.
BG2: Throne of Bhaal was rated 15 hours.

All of which were cheaper than 4/5th the price of the parent game.

Posioned wrote...

I really don't see the big deal over $40 for a exp. I've paid that for many games I play. It's standard for me.

You normally pay $40 for an expansion? I find that hard to believe since this is the first expansion to cost that much.

Squeaker Squeak wrote...

there's no excuse or justification for piracy. You wouldn't walk into a store and steal something just because you thought it was overpriced

Apples and oranges. Digital Piracy is not theft; it's copywrite infringment.

With theft, one item is lost. With digital piracy, one item is created.

[Ponce de Leon]

Stompi wrote...

I was surprised that the first expansion will be released only 4 month after the main game.
But "the biggest expansion we will be releasing" can really mean anything. Stone Prisoner's length isn't that hard to beat.

For a standard player, I am sure Stone Prisoner has a good 3-4 hours of gameplay.

[Giant ambush beetle]

I am a standard player with about 85 hours of playing time of DAO, I beat the Stone Prisoner in about 120 minutes and I wasnt rushing anything, I even got stuck in the !SPOILER! puzzle you have to complete for 20 minutes. 

Modifié par The Woldan , 05 février 2010 - 10:31 .

[ericsa]

flem1 wrote...

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

Translation:  it's short.

This.

And btw, only a retarded goose would take 240 hours.