382 réponses à ce sujet

[Wishpig]

TheMadCat wrote...

I am? I thought I was arguing the differences, or lack thereof, between stand alone and traditional expansions. Let me look back and double check. Yeah, done nothing but compared stand alones and traditionals. And please, PLEASE, PLEASE, do not drag me into another "comparative value" argument, I have wasted enough of my life on this forum debating those stupid arguments.

Then lets end the argument by agreeing to disagree. Ultimatily it is your money. Ultimatily YOU decide if it was worth it. Just be aware, that on a very very very very very small scale, that as a buyer you DO effect the swing of prices. A year  or two from now, it's very likley $40 will become the new average price for expansions, and then it will begin to add up...

Like I said, I am mainly concerned with bioware and ea digging themselves a ditch and sullying their names (well EA's already done that)... and that will happen if they keep trying to get away with charging THAT much more.

On one hand, I want the game and I do think it will be fun. On the other hand, I am fed up with EA's money grubbing tactics... it's a tough call.

Modifié par Wishpig, 06 février 2010 - 05:36 .

[DraconisCombine]

Im also in Canada.Fourty bucks you say?Plunk.There you go.Ill get more out of that fourty bucks than spending on anything else save groceries at the store.I have yet to see independant developers put out a quality game of bioware's caliber AND price it cheaper than the going market rate for games OR expansions.Free games or pirated ones?Please dont make me laugh.Pirated versions instantly become obsolete with one patch.Nevermind the hoops you have to jump through just to get the free/cracked games.I gave up on piracy 10 years ago.So did alot of friends of mine.Not worth the time or the effort when i can own a copy legitimately.



P.S.If you under the age of 17 you shouldnt be playing the game anyways.Frequently ones who cant afford it are not the adults but the teenagers....no offense of course.

[Adanu]

Wishpig wrote...

Adanu wrote...

The only real question anyone should ask is if the game is fun. If it isn't, don't play it.

So companies should start pricing games on how "fun" they predict their gonna be. Great idea. I don't see that ending badly.

YOu're putting words in my mouth, and I do not appreciate it.

If you want to infer something I've never even implied, that's on you. Don't pass it off as fact. Companies can and should price their games as they wish to maximize their sales.

[1079036]

They were very accurate on the game length of the DLC though, which was 1 hour.

[Feraele]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

I think game length time ..has entirely to do with, if a player explores the game properly, reads everything, tries to do all the side quests etc.  

Its literally that.   Some folks prior to RTO finally being available, stated it was "30 minutes and not worth it".

I have to disagree with that.....I timed my own adventure, using level 12 characters, it took me 2 hours and 15 minutes exactly to finish it, first time through.   But then I tend to make sure I haven't missed anything, because I know I won't be able to go back again if I did..for that particular run-through.

Also some folks went through RTO at epilogue save.  That would mean their characters were level 20 and up.  

Big difference in fight scenarios and win/loss with level 20ish characters as opposed to level 12. 

I think those differences should be taken into consideration, before someone pronounces a dlc or expansion...as "too short not worth it".

[Feraele]

Wishpig wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

I am? I thought I was arguing the differences, or lack thereof, between stand alone and traditional expansions. Let me look back and double check. Yeah, done nothing but compared stand alones and traditionals. And please, PLEASE, PLEASE, do not drag me into another "comparative value" argument, I have wasted enough of my life on this forum debating those stupid arguments.

Then lets end the argument by agreeing to disagree. Ultimatily it is your money. Ultimatily YOU decide if it was worth it. Just be aware, that on a very very very very very small scale, that as a buyer you DO effect the swing of prices. A year  or two from now, it's very likley $40 will become the new average price for expansions, and then it will begin to add up...

Like I said, I am mainly concerned with bioware and ea digging themselves a ditch and sullying their names (well EA's already done that)... and that will happen if they keep trying to get away with charging THAT much more.

On one hand, I want the game and I do think it will be fun. On the other hand, I am fed up with EA's money grubbing tactics... it's a tough call.

I will agree with you on EA, having had prior bad experiences with their ...CSRs in a far away land.

Hopefully, Bioware will keep on keeping on with the good quality they have produced thus far with DA:O.  (now if we could only get Bioware to have their own tech support..we'd be laughing.)

As for the price of this expansion vs the length of time.    As I saw the Bioware rep state...your mileage may vary, according to how you play the game.

I am the type that takes my time, doesn't rush through to "beat the game".   I am interested in everything going on around me, and specifically things like finding stray notes in odd places etc.

So I usually do not rush, and just allow things to unfold normally in the time its meant to.

If people are in a big rush to gobble up content as fast as they can, then of course, it will end up shorter than you originally thought and probably disappointing.

But everyone has their own playstyle..and thats definitely not a fault.   Just maybe put the "blame" where it belongs..with a little perspective on how folks tend to play.

[Feraele]

Upper_Krust wrote...

Kal Jenko wrote...

http://www.destructo...ng-160613.phtml

“However, for a single play-through someone sticking to the main story arc I would expect to fall in around 12-15 hours depending on their play style. A completionist that enjoys solving every quest along the way will easily exceed 20 hours of the same level of richly detailed experience they got in Origins.”

That was from an interview posted on the 15 January, so looks to be around the 15 hour mark.

I'm calling them out on that because it just doesn't add up. That would mean you were levelling up (on average) every hour. In Dragon Age you typically level-up after about 25-30 battles (less at lower levels, more at higher levels), and in DAO it made sense to let you level-up fast at the lower levels because you had very few powers at that point. But at higher levels you have lots of powers. Added to which Bioware is letting you rebuild your character at 17-20th level, so its not like you will be missing out on experiencing new powers and spells even from the beginning.

Not saying you couldn't speed run-through it in 12-15 hours (because people can finish DAO in less than 30 hours), but on your first playthrough I fully expect this game to be about 30 hours for the majority of gamers.

If you take into account you'll need to overcome approx. 300+ battles just to complete the game then it doesn't make sense you would be having a fight every 3 minutes (including the time taken to fight the battle that is), which is the frequency needed to defeat 300 battles in 15 hours. If you look at the pacing of DAO, its far more like 10 battles per hour (on average, slightly more in dungeons, obviously less when exploring/questing).

LOL?? 20 hours?    My first play through was 110 hours.   My subsequent ones were in the 80ish hours.   How can you possibly do that in 20 hours, unless you don't sleep, eat..and have nothing to do but play games.

I doubt very much the average gamer ( I consider myself to be average)  who plays DA:O and actually reads the codex, and does most of the side quests, is going to finish in 20/30 hours first time out.

I am working on my tenth and eleventh characters, still ends up about 80ish hours for me all told.

A Dev did mention its possible to finish faster (although I don't think they meant 20 hours) if you don't read anything, don't do side quests etc.    But if you play it that way, you haven't accessed everything available to you.

That seems like just attempting to "beat the game" without accessing the major part of the content.   Which to me, doesn't seem like "beating the game" at all...more like skipping huge chunks to get to the end. 

[hexaligned]

If I GET 15 hours out of it, I will be satisfied. I think people are just worried based on Biowares past advertising. DAO took me about 50 hours to beat, and that was with doing all the sidequests, however that's an acceptable amount of time to expect out of an RPG, so I wasn't let down even if it was advertised as being more. However if I end up paying 40 bones for an 8 hour expansion.... I am going to be miffed to say the least.

[Feraele]

I think bottom line is this: its going to take varying amounts of time depending on the player themselves, and THAT..Bioware has no control over. If you're better than "the average bear" of course it will take you less time to go through it.



Its like eating a hamburger, some take tiny bites, some wolf it down..all depends on the person.

[TheLion36]

I have no clue what games / expansions cost in the US normally, however in Europe 25 - 35 euros for an expansion is quite normal, new games usually go for 49 - 60 euros depending on the game. If you turn 40 dollars into euros now you end up 30 euros and that seems to be the price awakening is going for on european pre-order websites, on Play.com the PC version is even going for 19,99 euros which would around 27 dollars...



As an example the new expansion for World of Warcraft (Cataclism) is listed at Play.com for 32 euros (around 43 dollars), which I personally find very expensive for a game that also takes in a monthly fee.



It is however your money and in the end everyone decides for themselves what is a good price and what is too expensive.

[Peeker2009]

Feraele wrote:

LOL?? 20 hours? My first play through was 110 hours. My subsequent ones were in the 80ish hours. How can you possibly do that in 20 hours, unless you don't sleep, eat..and have nothing to do but play games.

Um sorry to nitpick here but I can't see the figure of 20 hours mentioned in the post you quoted. Perhaps it was a typo, or a late edit?

Also, game time does not include sleeping, eating, or anything else. In that case my run-throughs would be well over 300 hours each. Game time can be all in one hit, or stretched over weeks; it should make little difference to the actual total hours played.

A more general point (and more blunt this time), I'm uneasy with codex-reading being included in game time as advertised by a gaming company, as it's a relatively cheap and easy way to artificially inflate the numbers imo. I see codexes as an extra enhancement for those who really get into the lore, and who enjoy reading it on a computer screen, not as game play as such. Or am I being unreasonable?

Modifié par Peeker2009, 06 février 2010 - 08:43 .

[Walina]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

It does matter to have a certain amount of time and most of games have 60 hours of gameplays if the first playthrough.

[Time4Tiddy]

I mentioned this in another thread - but people need to recognize that the $40 price tag is what you are paying for the chance to play this game the day it comes out. You pay a premium if you want to be first in line. We all know that six months from now a GOTY edition of DA:O will come out that packages the original game and the xpac for $60 together. You will also see the xpac on sale at places like Target within the first four-six weeks of its release, my guess $25-$30 on sale price, since I was able to pick up DA:O for $40 within the first month it was out (when it was still listed as $60 at Gamestop). If you are so worried about the cost of the game, wait a few weeks for a sale. If it's still too expensive, wait a few months and you'll find it on the clearance for $19.99. If you _have_ to play a game the day it comes out, you can't complain that you are "forced" to pay too much for it.

Modifié par Time4Tiddy, 06 février 2010 - 10:25 .

[Tinywolf]

I am not complainng about paying 40 bucks.... hell DA cost me 110 (Im a aussie which for same reason includes an almost 100% increase)

[Feraele]

Walina wrote...

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

It does matter to have a certain amount of time and most of games have 60 hours of gameplays if the first playthrough.

Thats for the main campaign..the first retail box or digital download on release.   I doubt you're going to get 60 hours worth of playtime out of an expansion....might be 20 or a little less.   Seems about right.

And don't forget replayability....every run through ...you are definitely getting your money's worth each time you play a different character race etc.   Same with the dlcs but of course they are much shorter,  at the same time they are adding to the lore/story and extending your game play time.   

[Feraele]

Time4Tiddy wrote...

I mentioned this in another thread - but people need to recognize that the $40 price tag is what you are paying for the chance to play this game the day it comes out. You pay a premium if you want to be first in line. We all know that six months from now a GOTY edition of DA:O will come out that packages the original game and the xpac for $60 together. You will also see the xpac on sale at places like Target within the first four-six weeks of its release, my guess $25-$30 on sale price, since I was able to pick up DA:O for $40 within the first month it was out (when it was still listed as $60 at Gamestop). If you are so worried about the cost of the game, wait a few weeks for a sale. If it's still too expensive, wait a few months and you'll find it on the clearance for $19.99. If you _have_ to play a game the day it comes out, you can't complain that you are "forced" to pay too much for it.

This is true..if folks find the price of the expansion too expensive, they can always wait a bit til they see it advertised for less somewhere else.  

[Feraele]

Peeker2009 wrote...

Feraele wrote:

LOL?? 20 hours? My first play through was 110 hours. My subsequent ones were in the 80ish hours. How can you possibly do that in 20 hours, unless you don't sleep, eat..and have nothing to do but play games.

Um sorry to nitpick here but I can't see the figure of 20 hours mentioned in the post you quoted. Perhaps it was a typo, or a late edit?

Also, game time does not include sleeping, eating, or anything else. In that case my run-throughs would be well over 300 hours each. Game time can be all in one hit, or stretched over weeks; it should make little difference to the actual total hours played.

A more general point (and more blunt this time), I'm uneasy with codex-reading being included in game time as advertised by a gaming company, as it's a relatively cheap and easy way to artificially inflate the numbers imo. I see codexes as an extra enhancement for those who really get into the lore, and who enjoy reading it on a computer screen, not as game play as such. Or am I being unreasonable?

The codex is part of the lore/story...it also occasionally is part of a quest.    I don't think its an artificial way to inflate anything.  If you don't check out the codex there is information you are missing....specifically the quest codex, and the character codex.  Character codex gives hints on what gifts that particular character might be interested in, as well as some other "trivia".

   The controls one is informational for first time users, it explains stuff that you might not have known.    There's other information there on the creatures you find in the game..and so on.  Lots of information,   but if you checked it all out the first time, then you don't have to read it every time, unless you feel there is something you missed specifically.

[Wournos]

Feraele wrote...

I think bottom line is this: its going to take varying amounts of time depending on the player themselves, and THAT..Bioware has no control over. If you're better than "the average bear" of course it will take you less time to go through it.

Its like eating a hamburger, some take tiny bites, some wolf it down..all depends on the person.

Hehe. True.
I am one of those who try to explore as much as possible and read everything quest related at least, and if that adds up to 15 hours then I would be disappointed. I would prefer if expansions were at least 50% of the original. That would mean an estimated time of 30-40 hours. It took me roughly 75-85 hours to complete DAO and I know I am one of the "slower" ones.

...and I also try not to trust rumours. Especially if it comes from one source only.

[Wishpig]

DraconisCombine wrote...
P.S.If you under the age of 17 you shouldnt be playing the game anyways.Frequently ones who cant afford it are not the adults but the teenagers....no offense of course.

Or those of us in college... back when I was a teen I had the free time to work part-time.

Adanu wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Adanu wrote...

The only real question anyone should ask is if the game is fun. If it isn't, don't play it.

So companies should start pricing games on how "fun" they predict their gonna be. Great idea. I don't see that ending badly.

YOu're putting words in my mouth, and I do not appreciate it.

If
you want to infer something I've never even implied, that's on you.
Don't pass it off as fact. Companies can and should price their games
as they wish to maximize their sales.

Sorry, I misunderstood you. But I get what you meant now, and to that I ask.

How can you TELL if it's fun before you buy it... well... unless you pirate it. i guess you can turn to reviews and feedback, but I find those increasingly difficult to beleave.

So it's really a matter of if I regret purchasing it in the end.

Modifié par Wishpig, 06 février 2010 - 05:59 .

[Peeker2009]

Feraele wrote...

Peeker2009 wrote...

Feraele wrote:

LOL?? 20 hours? My first play through was 110 hours. My subsequent ones were in the 80ish hours. How can you possibly do that in 20 hours, unless you don't sleep, eat..and have nothing to do but play games.

Um sorry to nitpick here but I can't see the figure of 20 hours mentioned in the post you quoted. Perhaps it was a typo, or a late edit?

Also, game time does not include sleeping, eating, or anything else. In that case my run-throughs would be well over 300 hours each. Game time can be all in one hit, or stretched over weeks; it should make little difference to the actual total hours played.

A more general point (and more blunt this time), I'm uneasy with codex-reading being included in game time as advertised by a gaming company, as it's a relatively cheap and easy way to artificially inflate the numbers imo. I see codexes as an extra enhancement for those who really get into the lore, and who enjoy reading it on a computer screen, not as game play as such. Or am I being unreasonable?

The codex is part of the lore/story...it also occasionally is part of a quest.    I don't think its an artificial way to inflate anything.  If you don't check out the codex there is information you are missing....specifically the quest codex, and the character codex.  Character codex gives hints on what gifts that particular character might be interested in, as well as some other "trivia".

   The controls one is informational for first time users, it explains stuff that you might not have known.    There's other information there on the creatures you find in the game..and so on.  Lots of information,   but if you checked it all out the first time, then you don't have to read it every time, unless you feel there is something you missed specifically.

I'm not saying that codexes are not useful and/or interesting, particularly the ones referring to npcs and quests. I'm more concerned with the historical background, lore, and game controls, as they are directed more at the player's lack of knowledge of the world they are playing in, rather than my character's. I would imagine that my character would be a lot more knowledgeable of the world he/she inhabits than I, the player, am. Therefore, that information is not strictly a part of the game.

The only thing that has changed is that, in newer games like DA:O, all this information now must be found in the game world. In the past, most of this information, and in particular that which refers to game controls, would have been contained in a manual, the reading of which would not be included in the estimated gaming hours.

I have no problems with the change of delivery as such (though I do enjoy reading a good game manual I confess), because I realise that boxed games, complete with massive manuals, are probably becoming a thing of the past. Putting it in the game saves the developers, and probably the players, quite a bit of money after all. But at the same time, I still maintain that it's a bit cheeky to then include the reading of that information in estimated gaming hours.

The change in delivery of player information should, imo, be taken into account when comparing the length of DA:O and older rpgs like BG and NWN. Also, what I don't want to see, is this information steadily overtaking the "real" game play due to budget and/or time constraints.

[Kuravid]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

If you're paying $40 for an expansion, you're going to want more out of your playthrough than just, say, 5 hours worth of game time. Sure, game mileage does vary for everyone, but with a price tag that big you're going to want to see at least a few days worth of content.

[Wishpig]

One thing I can't stand is how people are comparing this too modern warfare. Modern Warfare has a mere 6 hours of single player gameplay. So there for the price is justified. Right... lets compare it to Modern Warfare 2's content and length and not Dragon Age: Origin's. That makes sense.

Well I got news, length is expected in the RPG genre... much like how multiplayer is expected in the FPS genre. It's not a factor you can wave off simply because a game like modern warfare has less hours.

God, I remember when I created a thread about how Dragon Age sales would compare to Modern Warfare 2 sales. The thread wasn't negitive, I very simply asked if and how Dragon Age sales would be effected by Modern Warfare's popularity. Of course, people read Modern Warfare 2 and Dragon Age in the title, and didn't bother to read the actuall post... they assumed I was compareing the two and ripped me a new one. People who actually read the OP jumped to my defense, but the thread needed to be closed because of the flaming at the idea that Modern Warfare 2 and Dragon Age should EVER be compared in any way.

But of course, it's allright to compare the two if it furthers your point. Right.

Modifié par Wishpig, 07 février 2010 - 12:51 .

[Dargone]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.

/thread

[Feraele]

Here's a question for you...if you don't buy the expansion pack..how are you being "screwed"?



To my mind..I would say a good 90 to 95% of what Bioware develops for us, is QUALITY..how are you being screwed by a quality product? If you don't like Bioware offerings..why are you still here? Why are you still playing the game?



That does not compute.

[Feraele]

I'm not saying that codexes are not useful and/or interesting, particularly the ones referring to npcs and quests. I'm more concerned with the historical background, lore, and game controls, as they are directed more at the player's lack of knowledge of the world they are playing in, rather than my character's. I would imagine that my character would be a lot more knowledgeable of the world he/she inhabits than I, the player, am. Therefore, that information is not strictly a part of the game.



The only thing that has changed is that, in newer games like DA:O, all this information now must be found in the game world. In the past, most of this information, and in particular that which refers to game controls, would have been contained in a manual, the reading of which would not be included in the estimated gaming hours.



I have no problems with the change of delivery as such (though I do enjoy reading a good game manual I confess), because I realise that boxed games, complete with massive manuals, are probably becoming a thing of the past. Putting it in the game saves the developers, and probably the players, quite a bit of money after all. But at the same time, I still maintain that it's a bit cheeky to then include the reading of that information in estimated gaming hours.



The change in delivery of player information should, imo, be taken into account when comparing the length of DA:O and older rpgs like BG and NWN. Also, what I don't want to see, is this information steadily overtaking the "real" game play due to budget and/or time constraints.



------------------------------END QUOTE



@ Peeker



I think and believe that the reason its done that way..is to encourage people to explore, not rush through it as if its some sort of fast action shooter, get to the end and proclaim..Voila!! I beat the game. Its an rpg, its about discovery, about the story, about the people in it, and about how it affects your character in the whole scheme of things.



And..really the codex is there ..SHOULD you choose to have a look at it. If thats not interesting to you...you don't have to. I'm just saying if you don't you might miss a quest opportunity...or the whys and wherefores of how something happens...good example: how broodmothers come to be.



I think its a clever way to present information, especially in this day and age, where alot of folks, myself included, tend to go for the digital deluxe downloads, as opposed to having masses of manuals and cardboad game boxes filling up their computer room/den.



I see it as an adjustment to how people buy the games these days. There's always the walkthroughs and such that pop up on IGN..if you are more interested in that. Or buying manuals from Prima Games (personally I don't bother would rather discover things for myself.)