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Has the 15 hours rumor been adressed yet?


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#151
spark420

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Feraele wrote...

I'm not saying that codexes are not useful and/or interesting, particularly the ones referring to npcs and quests. I'm more concerned with the historical background, lore, and game controls, as they are directed more at the player's lack of knowledge of the world they are playing in, rather than my character's. I would imagine that my character would be a lot more knowledgeable of the world he/she inhabits than I, the player, am. Therefore, that information is not strictly a part of the game.

The only thing that has changed is that, in newer games like DA:O, all this information now must be found in the game world. In the past, most of this information, and in particular that which refers to game controls, would have been contained in a manual, the reading of which would not be included in the estimated gaming hours.

I have no problems with the change of delivery as such (though I do enjoy reading a good game manual I confess), because I realise that boxed games, complete with massive manuals, are probably becoming a thing of the past. Putting it in the game saves the developers, and probably the players, quite a bit of money after all. But at the same time, I still maintain that it's a bit cheeky to then include the reading of that information in estimated gaming hours.

The change in delivery of player information should, imo, be taken into account when comparing the length of DA:O and older rpgs like BG and NWN. Also, what I don't want to see, is this information steadily overtaking the "real" game play due to budget and/or time constraints.

------------------------------END QUOTE

@ Peeker

I think and believe that the reason its done that way..is to encourage people to explore, not rush through it as if its some sort of fast action shooter, get to the end and proclaim..Voila!! I beat the game. Its an rpg, its about discovery, about the story, about the people in it, and about how it affects your character in the whole scheme of things.

And..really the codex is there ..SHOULD you choose to have a look at it. If thats not interesting to you...you don't have to. I'm just saying if you don't you might miss a quest opportunity...or the whys and wherefores of how something happens...good example: how broodmothers come to be.

I think its a clever way to present information, especially in this day and age, where alot of folks, myself included, tend to go for the digital deluxe downloads, as opposed to having masses of manuals and cardboad game boxes filling up their computer room/den.

I see it as an adjustment to how people buy the games these days. There's always the walkthroughs and such that pop up on IGN..if you are more interested in that. Or buying manuals from Prima Games (personally I don't bother would rather discover things for myself.)

do your fingers ever get sore?Image IPB just asking not being mean.

#152
Feraele

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@ spark



Nope....never ..specifically when there are topics on these boards that interest me. :) I love discussion...how about you? :)

#153
Wournos

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spark420 wrote... do your fingers ever get sore?Image IPB just asking not being mean.

Most of it was a copied quote. ;)

#154
Wonderllama4

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I don't have a problem with 15 hours. that's a long time. it's the price that bothers me

#155
T1l

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Considering some people forked out 120AUD for Modern Warfare, which had an 8 hour main campaign, I'm not complaining about any Bioware product in the near future in regards to value. Except maybe Pinnacle Station. By the Ancestors, did that suck a nug.

#156
LolaRuns

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I guess I'm weird, but 15 hours (though is that with or without replay value?) sounds pretty fair to me. Compared to how short most shooters are these days...

As long as it feels like fully fleshed out story and not something that feels like it's been cut short I'd consider it an acceptable price (though I agree 30 would be better). IMO they should deal with it by throwing in some neat geeky stuff that fans appreciate maybe one of the novels in pdf format or a pdf guide to the world of DAO that will soothe the tempers.

Modifié par LolaRuns, 07 février 2010 - 05:46 .


#157
spark420

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Feraele wrote...

@ spark

Nope....never ..specifically when there are topics on these boards that interest me. :) I love discussion...how about you? :)

yes I do. and I agree with most of your points. but back on topic: I would gladly drop 40 on awakeing if it is 15 hrs long. I usally spend 60 for games that last only 8 hours and has very little replayablity so if the ps3 is out on time with the rest I would gladly purchase it.Image IPB

#158
Wishpig

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LolaRuns wrote...

I guess I'm weird, but 15 hours (though is that with or without replay value?) sounds pretty fair to me. Compared to how short most shooters are these days...

As long as it feels like fully fleshed out story and not something that feels like it's been cut short I'd consider it an acceptable price (though I agree 30 would be better). IMO they should deal with it by throwing in some neat geeky stuff that fans appreciate maybe one of the novels in pdf format or a pdf guide to the world of DAO that will soothe the tempers.

No, length is expected in an RPG like multiplayer is expected in an FPS. Most shooters have multplayer that makes up for shorter single player length... much like how RPG's tend to have longer single player campiegns to make up for lack of multiplayer.

Bash games like Modern Warfare for their length if you want, but many players have spent just as much time playing MW2 as DA:O thanks to multiplayer... and have had just as much fun.

U agree with your latter point though. IF the game feels fleshed out and well paced. If the game provides as much replay value as DA:O then I'll be happy. But the "average" gameplay in DA:O was cliamed to be 40-60 hours... DA:A's is claimed to be 15. It will be a challenge to make that 15 stand up to the 40-60, and justify the mere $10 diffrence.

Modifié par Wishpig, 07 février 2010 - 06:31 .


#159
Monstruo696

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Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

I'm honestly a little puzzled by some folks obsession with game length. What seems more important are: Did I have a ripping good time? Did it tell a tell a gripping tale that I got lost in? I hope the answers for Awakening will be "yes" to both. And game length is a bloody tough thing to gauge - some folks can finish Origins in 24 hours and some 240 hours. That's a factor of 10 difference.

Plan on having a good time and a chance to get lost in Ferelden again. Your gameplay length mileage will vary.


There's nowhere near enough content or dialog for someone to have played 240 hours.

They're also comparing the expansion to the two DLC you guys released.  $7 for a place to put your stuff in, a new set of armor, and some 2 hours of gameplay and $5 for an hour of gameplay and a recycled set of golden armor.  Don'tr try to justify yourself, you'll only end up burying yourself in the hole you dug up.

Modifié par Monstruo696, 07 février 2010 - 08:39 .


#160
JKJEDIKNIGHT

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Everyone plays games at their own speed, that's been well documented over the years. I've seen someone beat Super Mario Bros in 8 minutes. Can any of you do that? As I've said before and Fer said, it's all in what you do in the game. A person could very well spend 80+ on DAO. Me personally, I don't have a game over 40 and those are the ones that I consider having done just about everything. My fastest is 12 hours something. That was with avoiding as many side quests as possible and skipping through dialogues and cut scenes.

#161
Wishpig

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JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...

Everyone plays games at their own speed, that's been well documented over the years. I've seen someone beat Super Mario Bros in 8 minutes. Can any of you do that? As I've said before and Fer said, it's all in what you do in the game. A person could very well spend 80+ on DAO. Me personally, I don't have a game over 40 and those are the ones that I consider having done just about everything. My fastest is 12 hours something. That was with avoiding as many side quests as possible and skipping through dialogues and cut scenes.


Bottom line is average time of DA:O was 40-60. Average time for DA:A is 15. Obviously people who played DA:O for 80+ hours will also get more time out of DA:A... but time will also relate to the 15 hour time. HOPEFULLY they can squeeze 20-25 hours out of it. Reguadless their still getting far far far less time. Still relatible to someone who plays around the average speed.

Granted this is all prediction and nothing substanial... but hell most threads and discussions are cause frankly we don't know to much about the game.

#162
Offkorn

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Feraele wrote...

Here's a question for you...if you don't buy the expansion pack..how are you being "screwed"?


Not buying the expansion pack is not the problem. Buying the expansion pack and having it not be worth its price tag is the problem.

I don't know if you're aware of it or not, but the majority of PC and digital content purchases cannot be refunded.

Modifié par Offkorn, 07 février 2010 - 09:11 .


#163
Wishpig

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Offkorn wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Here's a question for you...if you don't buy the expansion pack..how are you being "screwed"?


Not buying the expansion pack is not the problem. Buying the expansion pack and having it not be worth its price tag is the problem.

I don't know if you're aware of it or not, but the majority of PC and digital content purchases cannot be refunded.


Yup only way you can be sure if it's worth the price is either pirating it or buying it. Say it isn't good, then I bought a lacking product for more then it should cost. I consider that being screwed over... if only on a small scale.

Of course you may not consider it being screwed over, and thats just as legit as my opinion.

#164
LolaRuns

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U agree with your latter point though. IF the game feels fleshed out and well paced. If the game provides as much replay value as DA:O then I'll be happy. But the "average" gameplay in DA:O was cliamed to be 40-60 hours... DA:A's is claimed to be 15. It will be a challenge to make that 15 stand up to the 40-60, and justify the mere $10 diffrence.




I think Return To Ostagar vs. The Stone Prisoner (or even Warden's Keep) is a good example of this.



*technically* Stone Prisoner gave you a handful of fights, a puzzle and some conversations.

Return To Ostagar probably gave you even some more fights than Stone Prisoner and a bunch of cut scenes.



Yet Stone Prisoner felt like a real story while RTO left me feeling pretty empty. Which is odd since there was plenty of chance for RTO to give you closure. Ok, even if we say the comparison is unfair because so much of Shale was already recorded, even Warden's Keep felt more of a story.



SPOILERS FOR ALL THREE: In Stone Prisoner you have the chance to learn something about Shale and give her some closure. In Warden's Keep you meet that guy trying to find out more about his family (even though he is pretty annoying) and even the people in flashbacks seem to have some personality. [interestingly both Stone Prisoner and Warden's Keep had a puzzle and both had an antagonist where you can make a moral choice whether to let them go that is at least somewhat non obvious. While the choices about Cailan's body are mostly whether to be normal or be a total dick]. They probably all clocked in around the same lenght but to me Ostagar felt the most pointless to me. Both others had at least some personality and some "story" you could bring to an end.



Maybe Ostagar would have been able to be much more satisfying with some minor tweaks, like more in depth companion conversations about what happened. Or maybe make Cailain's ghost a temporary party member. Maybe that would have created some deeper emotional connection.





Errr, bottom line: story matters, personality/character matters.

#165
Blackstaff425

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I have been really happy with how long Dragon Age was. I am so tired of games that only have 20 hours of content in them at best. Just to let you know BioWare that is why I always buy your games because I know I will have a indepth experience.

#166
Guest_Ermehtar_*

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Meh, 15 hours of gameplay is well worth the money. I don't buy the logic that game time = $. You can probably beat Uncharted in 8 - 10. When you get a Expansion longer than many retail games, you have to understand that the price tag will be at the same price range.



The production cost of such a game is probably pretty high. The staff has to get paid, voice overs, music scores,advertising etc. etc. Cost money.. CEO's,boards etc wants to see money coming back into the company. You can't simply give away your product to please the fans. You have to earn back the wages and bring in cash to continue doing buisness.

#167
sonlockdon

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well i guess it;ll be safe to say awakening will be basically a new game but keep in mind it mainly depends on the players , weather they do all the side quest dont skip conversations dont cheat, and dont use the power that makes you run fast. so id estimate for me cus i try to do everything possible , about 20-30 hours , plus they'll probably make add ons for awakening, lol add ons for an add on.

#168
Wishpig

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Ermehtar wrote...

Meh, 15 hours of gameplay is well worth the money. I don't buy the logic that game time = $. You can probably beat Uncharted in 8 - 10. When you get a Expansion longer than many retail games, you have to understand that the price tag will be at the same price range.


I don't get it... everyone uses FPS examples to justify the short time.

"15 hours in longer the MW2"

"15hours is longer then uncharted"

"15 hours is longer then FPS's"

THEY HAVE MULTIPLAYER! It's a poor poor comperison. Single player RPGs are long because often their IS no multiplayer and they need to be long. FPS single player modes are often SHORT because theres hours upon hours of multiplayer fun.

This debait is NOT a one sided debait, both sides can be right...

But for the love of god stop comparing this to games like MW2 and conveniently leaving out the multplayer aspect.

Modifié par Wishpig, 08 février 2010 - 02:14 .


#169
Dragon Age1103

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Wishpig wrote...

Ermehtar wrote...

Meh, 15 hours of gameplay is well worth the money. I don't buy the logic that game time = $. You can probably beat Uncharted in 8 - 10. When you get a Expansion longer than many retail games, you have to understand that the price tag will be at the same price range.


I don't get it... everyone uses FPS examples to justify the short time.

"15 hours in longer the MW2"

"15hours is longer then uncharted"

"15 hours is longer then FPS's"

THEY HAVE MULTIPLAYER! It's a poor poor comperison. Single player RPGs are long because often their IS no multiplayer and they need to be long. FPS single player modes are often SHORT because theres hours upon hours of multiplayer fun.

This debait is NOT a one sided debait, both sides can be right...

But for the love of god stop comparing this to games like MW2 and conveniently leaving out the multplayer aspect.


   While I agree with your point I think the level cap quote from bioware already proves this expansion will be well over 15 hours. I understand everyone's concern & I know everything is technically speculation BUT we do have facts 1 Bioware stated if you start as the Orlesian you will start at level 20 2 they stated the level cap will be mid-high 30's so lv35-39 3 I just logged 12 hours from lv1-10 4 we all also KNOW every level requires even more XP so 12 hours for 10 easy levels & we'll be doing 10 or more levels. Other facts my 12 hours are logged on a rush play through. I skipped the last couple sentences of most dialogue b/c this is my 4th play through, I know where anything & everything is saving time navigating through what will be new unexplored areas of Awakening, & I didn't read most of my codex's b/c i've already read them on previous play throughs.
   Entire point being 15 hours is the very bare minimum it could ever be & honestly from what we experienced with Origins we KNOW Bioware will blow us all away with Awakening!
    Just kind of sad to see the community slowly get at each other's throats over something we know so little about & I'm am sure they won't disappoint. Besides guys relax!!! Gop enjoy some Bioshock 2, AVP, or Battlefield until Awakening!! lol I know I am going to!!! oh & new halo maps...well classic remakes mostly I think.

#170
Wishpig

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Dragon Age1103 wrote...

Besides guys relax!!! Gop enjoy AVP


Ur right...

And as for the above quote...


F*** YA!

#171
NinjaKingKiller

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I beat the game in 30 hours so 15 hours if enough for me atleast

#172
Dragon Age1103

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NinjaKingKiller wrote...

I beat the game in 30 hours so 15 hours if enough for me atleast



   wow really? I've never understood how people enjoy an RPG without knowign much of the lore or finding as many ide quests & hidden items as possible. Even my 4th play through will probably still end up being around 50 hours at least.

#173
NinjaKingKiller

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Dragon Age1103 wrote...

NinjaKingKiller wrote...

I beat the game in 30 hours so 15 hours if enough for me atleast



   wow really? I've never understood how people enjoy an RPG without knowign much of the lore or finding as many ide quests & hidden items as possible. Even my 4th play through will probably still end up being around 50 hours at least.


Eh.... I dont know I just finish video games really fast I am dumbfounded at the fact that people can play games for over 100 hours than there are the few with 500 one of my favorite games Fallout I only have 50 hours in. But if you add up all of my other Characters I have 49 hours and some odd minutes but since my Human Noble was my Main Character I count that time as my total

#174
David Gaider

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Offkorn wrote...
Not buying the expansion pack is not the problem. Buying the expansion pack and having it not be worth its price tag is the problem.

I don't know if you're aware of it or not, but the majority of PC and digital content purchases cannot be refunded.

Then it's up to you to be certain that what you're expecting is what you're paying for. There is likely to be more information coming from us on details regarding the expansion as the release date draws nearer, and failing that you can turn to reviews (both commercial as well as from other people who have played it) to inform your opinion.

If a game's overall length is the only thing you're interested in knowing, that's certainly up to you -- but I think it would be worthwhile tempering some expectations knowing:

a) Awakening is an expansion, not a full game. Nor is it intended to be.

B) Origins was already a very content-filled game, especially compared to almost every other game out there. If one honestly expects the price point for any additional content to match the playing length of the original game and take nothing else into consideration (such as the smaller audience) then the solution would seem to be that we need to make smaller games if we wish to continue making additional content for purchase.

Regardless, no matter what we put out it's up to you to determine if it's worth the money you'll pay. Value is not based on length alone, which I think is all Ferret was suggesting -- and the focus on it by some is disconcerting at times. Personally, I think Origins could have been much, much shorter. It would probably have been better paced, story-wised, and maybe even been more enjoyable for some. YMMV, as always, especially considering some put a lot of value into wide-open exploration (which is not the kind of game we make), but I think if anyone's expectation is that every product we make must contain 100+ hours of content no matter the scope you're going to be sorrily disappointed. Not to put too fine a point on it, but that's simply the way it is.

Modifié par David Gaider, 08 février 2010 - 08:01 .


#175
spark420

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David Gaider wrote...

Offkorn wrote...
Not buying the expansion pack is not the problem. Buying the expansion pack and having it not be worth its price tag is the problem.

I don't know if you're aware of it or not, but the majority of PC and digital content purchases cannot be refunded.

Then it's up to you to be certain that what you're expecting is what you're paying for. There is likely to be more information coming from us on details regarding the expansion as the release date draws nearer, and failing that you can turn to reviews (both commercial as well as from other people who have played it) to inform your opinion.

If a game's overall length is the only thing you're interested in knowing, that's certainly up to you -- but I think it would be worthwhile tempering some expectations knowing:

a) Awakening is an expansion, not a full game. Nor is it intended to be.

B) Origins was already a very content-filled game, especially compared to almost every other game out there. If one honestly expects the price point for any additional content to match the playing length of the original game and take nothing else into consideration (such as the smaller audience) then the solution would seem to be that we need to make smaller games if we wish to continue making additional content for purchase.

Regardless, no matter what we put out it's up to you to determine if it's worth the money you'll pay. Value is not based on length alone, which I think is all Ferret was suggesting -- and the focus on it by some is disconcerting at times. Personally, I think Origins could have been much, much shorter. It would probably have been better paced, story-wised, and maybe even been more enjoyable for some. YMMV, as always, especially considering some put a lot of value into wide-open exploration (which is not the kind of game we make), but I think if anyone's expectation is that every product we make must contain 100+ hours of content no matter the scope you're going to be sorrily disappointed. Not to put too fine a point on it, but that's simply the way it is.

but most people would be happy if it was 15 hrs but if it is shorter like only 5 hrs than that would be really disappointing. and alot of people are taking length into consideration since bioware wants people to pre-order. no offense but it seems like bioware is side stepping mention any length which has not been the case for everything else that has been released for DA.Image IPB