96 réponses à ce sujet

[huntrrz]

Series5Ranger wrote...

I didn't want a Virmire moment , I wanted a "Who am I going to sacrifice" moment. Virmire was just the situation, you had to make a choice who to save. (Strategically and logically you go for the bomb imo because that's more important than the team who agreed  to go with the Strike team on what was basically a Distraction / suicide run) 

Huh!   Just goes to show you how different people can make different decisions.

I sent Ashley with the Salarians and rescued her/them.  My reasoning was:

- The bomb is said to be essentially impervious and impossible to disarm once activated, which Kaiden took care of.

- The game doesn't specifically acknowledge it, but I wasn't ONLY rescuing Ashley, I was also rescuing the surviving STG members.  (Yeah, they thank you afterward if you talk to them before you dock anywhere, but as far as Ashley's concerned it was ALL ABOUT HER.  Sorry, friend... )

- Kaiden was an L2 biotic suffering from chronic migranes.  Why not keep the "more fit" of the two team members?

[brgillespie]

Reapers are self-described omnipotent beings that no organic could "possibly comprehend". And yet Sovereign was beaten and the cycle that has supposedly been happening for millions of years was broken.

Through talking to Legion you get the idea of how differently a machine race can process information as opposed to organic methods. The difference between geth and the heretics is a different value in their binary code, basically.

It doesn't surprise me that the Reapers want to build a human-based Reaper. They want to understand how something so comparatively puny has managed to put such a major wrench into their plan. Also, multiple times when Harbinger's "assumed direct control" he commands the Collectors to capture Shepard if possible.

Modifié par brgillespie, 05 février 2010 - 01:53 .

[Ulicus]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Yeah, first time through on the suicide mission I'd lost most of the crew because I had no idea about the mission limit. I also lost Zaeed because I put him in charge of the diversion team, not realizing that I should've stuck with Jacob or Garrus (well, from his talk about his past I knew that Zaeed had successfully led merc teams, etc. - but oops).

Successfully? 

Zaeed's a badass, sure, but leadership really isn't his thing.

1) The Blue Suns turned against him
2) He flat out tells you that on the first of his "impossible" missions - in which he led a small squad - "everyone died but me".

[jedierick]

Keep in mind that ME1 was a brand new story, it was new to everyone. ME2 doesnt have that shock value because we know what the reapers want to do.

[FlintlockJazz]

allquixotic wrote...

andy christo wrote...

I didn't look any of the answers up on the internet, I just used common sense and practical thinking.
When it asks for a tech specialist to hack the door I knew there were only two choices. Legion or Tali. I chose Legion because he's a geth, I considered him to be more expendable then Tali. (he survived by the way.)
When it asked for a leader for team 2, I always picked Garrus. He was in the Turian military for years and worked with C-sec. He succesfully led a small team of vigilantes on Omega and wrecked the mercs and gangs there. The only reason his team got killed on Omega was Sedonis betraying him.
When it asked me to choose someone to create a biotic shield to protect us from the swarms I knew you had to choose Jack or Samarra. I chose Samarra because she's a 1000-year-old Asari Justicar. Though I'm pretty sure Jack would have worked as well. Both deciding to have Garrus lead team 2 and choosing Samarra payed off for me.
When given the option to have someone guide the survivors back to the ship I chose Jack because I remembered the carnage she caused on Purgatory. She was single-handedly blasting through walls and laying battle mechs and gaurds out... Though I think you can choose any member and they will survive for this one.

My whole crew survived.

But who's to decide who is good at what? You can rationalize all you want, but some of the opportunities for loss are really cheap.

I had everyone loyal (except Miranda, but she didn't die), and lost 3 people: Zaeed, Legion and Jack.

I picked Legion to crawl through the tunnels, and IMHO I did the mission where you have to open the gates pretty quickly. I was able to tag every control panel before the bar had passed the 75% time remaining mark. But when Legion met up with my squad, he got shot right as the door was closing.

Then I had Zaeed as the second fire team leader, because he was the leader of the friggen Blue Suns for crying out loud, so why isn't he a badass leader? Right, anyway, Zaeed died basically the same way as Legion: there was a door closing and the last bullet through killed him. Kind of cheap considering I never saw his kinetic barriers go down.

Then I picked Jakob to put up the biotic shield, and he did a right fine job of that, but at the very end of the mission, Jack, who was in my party, got swarmed and carried away by the Seeker drones. WTF? She was behind the shield with me for the entire mission.

So I agree 100% with the OP that there wasn't another Vermire, and the losses I suffered in the ending were arbitrary, not based on skill, and not because I made poor choices. You can argue in favor of almost any party member serving any role, except the people with no tech powers would make a poor tech specialist, and the people with no biotic powers would make a poor biotic specialist. But I don't see how Zaeed was "teh wrong choice lulz so he has to die", and I completely fail to understand the other two deaths.

Legion died because you chose Zaeed to lead.  Though he led the Blue Suns Zaeed is self-centred and a loner, not good leader material, if you had chosen someone like Garrus then they would have provided enough covering fire to protect Legion.

Zaeed died later on for the same reasons, he's not good at leading anymore because he's more use to fighting alone now.  His actions in his loyalty mission also show that his judgement is suspect, I would never put an idiot like that in charge of anything, not even making the tea!

The shield bit I also fell for as well, but while Miranda says 'technically anyone can do it' it doesn't mean everyone can do it equally well.  Jacob would not be my first choice for it, but I did choose Miranda thinking her superhumanness included her biotics and apparently that's not the case, lost Grunt learning that, so that bit is a bit hit and miss.

[Abriael_CG]

Personally, I find that the "who are you going to sacrifice" moment was really uninteresting, ok, partly it was because both the characters involved were flat and their contribution to the enjoyment of the game was zero, but mostly because it was extremely artificial and forced.
"Hey, you're going to lose someone no metter what you do, so chose who dies" *yawns*

This isn't a choice with consequence. It's actually the opposite, because whatever you chose the outcome doesn't change. A flat, boring character survives, and another dies. The only difference is if the flat, boring character is a girl or a guy. Big deal.

On the other hand, the endgame in ME2 DID have choices with consequences. What you chose resulted in the crew and some of your companions surviving or dieing. Your choices can bring victory or disaster. You take your time while your crew is in the hands of a ruthless alien race? They die. You chose the wrong person for the task? bang, they die. You sped through the game and didn't earn the respect of your companions? Bang, they die because you lack leadership. Much less artificial and boring than the binary, but completely inconsequential choice on Virmire.

So yeah, if people die in ME1 it's just because the game forced that artificial event on you. The death of people in ME2 comes just from your poor judgement.

Even the final choice in DA:O is better than that of ME1. You can chose to let a bad guy die, a good guy die, to die yourself, or to accept a "darker" option with unforseen consequences to save everyone, with big differences in the ending. Options -> Consequences. It's a real choice, not just a boring "pick who gets shot".

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 05 février 2010 - 02:38 .

[aeetos21]

That's basically what all the reviews agreed on. Everything else was stunning except for the main storyline and yeah, the only "Oh my God" moment was learning the true fate of the protheans. That and when I saw two of my favorites characters die and how my LI nearly died twice.



Still, an epic game.

[Abriael_CG]

aeetos21 wrote...

That's basically what all the reviews agreed on. Everything else was stunning except for the main storyline and yeah, the only "Oh my God" moment was learning the true fate of the protheans. That and when I saw two of my favorites characters die and how my LI nearly died twice.

Still, an epic game.

Most of the reviews of ME2 were pure crap, despite the high scores (that were an automatic reflection of the hype, and not of the actual value of the game). ME2 is not a game to be rushed through, the final mission requires good preparation to be really fulfilling. Gaming "journalists" nornally rush through games as fast as possible to post before the others, or to get it out in time for publishing, with the result that their experience of the game is really superficial.
That's why the gaming press, both online and printed, nowadays is absolutely worthless for anything else than the news.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 05 février 2010 - 02:46 .

[Sidney]

Ulicus wrote...
2) He flat out tells you that on the first of his "impossible" missions - in which he led a small squad - "everyone died but me".

My Shep had the exact same experience with his war background so I'm not sure that should be the disqualifier.

[Gibsyfuk]

JKoopman wrote...

I just beat the game last night and after thinking about it for a bit, I realized that at no point in the game was there really a moment like on Virmire in ME1. I remember the chill that went up my spine when Sovereign's true identity was revealed, and how it completely changed your outlook on pretty much the entire game up to that point. And not only that, but shortly thereafter you had to make a very difficult decision with long-lasting effects.

In ME2, the only moment that even came close was when it was revealed that the Collectors were the descendants of the Protheans... and that was more of a "WTF? Really?" moment than a "OMG! Holy sh-t!" one. And at no point did you ever have to make a truly difficult choice with personal repercusions. It ws possible to get the "Ultimate Good Ending" where no one dies and everyone flies off happily into the sunset. Where were the life-and-death decisions? There were less casualties on this "suicide mission" than there were in your investigation of Saren in ME1...

And don't get me started on the "big twist" ending. I was expecting something epic like Sovereign's attack on the Citadel, but what we get is... a human Reaper? Again, rather than an "OMG!" moment it's just a "WTF?" one. Can anyone out there really picture a human-shaped Reaper flying around space like the freakin Iron Giant (especially when EVERY OTHER Reaper we see looks like a squid or insect) without rolling their eyes? And the fact that you take it out - partially built or no - with handguns and assault rifles in a battle that seemed more at home in Contra than in Mass Effect just made it seem so much less impressive.

People have no grasp on good story telling
This is the MIDDLE game of couse it's gonna be like that.
Hell look at The Empire Strikes Back, "I am your Father!"

And fyi that human reaper would have ended up looking just like a normal reaper after he was encased in the "Ship Armor", think about it if it was so easy for you and whichever two sqadmates you brought with you to kill him do you think they were just going to send him out into space like that?? NO 

IMO he would have ended up looking like any other reaper we have grown accustomed to.

Modifié par Gibsyfuk, 05 février 2010 - 03:01 .

[Daveastation]

WrexEffex wrote...

- When Garrus was attacked by the Gunship (thought he died)
- Jacob's loyalty mission (epic ending, depending on what you chose to do with his dad)
- Tali's recruitment mission on Haestrom (I love quarians)
- First seeing Leigon and his bad**** pose, then turning him on on the Normandy was an awesome conversation (Shepard Commander. "Can you understand me?" "Yes")  
- Thane's recruitment mission (very dark and loved the music)
- The whole suicide mission, not knowing who's going to survive (epic)
- Doing to Horizon mission (seeing the collectors for the first time)

All those were truly amazing moments for me in the game. Both ME1 and ME2 have amazing moments in it, it's such an incredible story so far. Come on ME3!!

I agree.  As far as 2nd acts go, ME2 is amazing!  I absolutely loved everything related to Legion's storyline.

Obviously when you already know about the reaper threat, finding out that the reapers are "changing it up" and trying different things isn't really a surprise.  The guy that posted the comparison to the Two Towers is right on the money.  The whole "The collectors are Protheans" thing was pretty interesting too, and Joker's Mission was also awesome.

[aeetos21]

Abriael_CG wrote...

aeetos21 wrote...

That's basically what all the reviews agreed on. Everything else was stunning except for the main storyline and yeah, the only "Oh my God" moment was learning the true fate of the protheans. That and when I saw two of my favorites characters die and how my LI nearly died twice.

Still, an epic game.

Most of the reviews of ME2 were pure crap, despite the high scores (that were an automatic reflection of the hype, and not of the actual value of the game). ME2 is not a game to be rushed through, the final mission requires good preparation to be really fulfilling. Gaming "journalists" nornally rush through games as fast as possible to post before the others, or to get it out in time for publishing, with the result that their experience of the game is really superficial.
That's why the gaming press, both online and printed, nowadays is absolutely worthless for anything else than the news.

Yes but that doesn't mean that they're automatically wrong. The main storyline was good (was even better if you did the sidequests) but it wasn't anything industry-changing.

Bioware developers have said that ME2 would be about the squadmates and their journeys and less about the main threat:



55 seconds in

[Myrmedus]

Gibsyfuk wrote...

And fyi that human reaper would have ended up looking just like a normal reaper after he was encased in the "Ship Armor", think about it if it was so easy for you and whichever two sqadmates you brought with you to kill him do you think they were just going to send him out into space like that?? NO 

IMO he would have ended up looking like any other reaper we have grown accustomed to.

Exactly.

[Sidney]

Gibsyfuk wrote...
And fyi that human reaper would have ended up looking just like a normal reaper after he was encased in the "Ship Armor", think about it if it was so easy for you and whichever two sqadmates you brought with you to kill him do you think they were just going to send him out into space like that?? NO .

I didn't think he'd get "encased" but rather this was a very, very, very early form of the Reaper that wasn't ready for prime time and that was why you could dust it so easily.

[Jontonif]

[quote]TheGreyGhost119 wrote...

"People say the choices were simple, but I disagree.

Sure, the tech expert one maybe, but the fire team leaders were a little trickier. I honestly don't see why Garrus or Jacob would be good leaders. Garrus got his whole squad killed, and Jacob is just a hired (albeit, loyal) hired gun."






Well, if you ask Garrus about his squad you will see that it wasn't his fault...

Modifié par Jontonif, 05 février 2010 - 04:10 .

[Gill Kaiser]

Garrus should definately be a fire team leader option, so I'm glad he was. Jacob I'm not too sure about, as he's not really portrayed as a leader per se. Still, I guess most of the crew probably respect him and like him more than Miranda, and he is a seasoned veteran.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 05 février 2010 - 04:17 .

[Awesome Helmet]

the thing is you cant have your mind blown twice. you loved ME1 because it was the first of its kind. its like the matrix trilogy. the first one blows your mind, you go into the second with those expectations, but its just the same thing you already saw. there was more story in ME1 it seems like but me2 is still alot of fun. its just not as immersive and dedicated as the first one.

[TepicSnowman]

Theres an anomaly mission where you have to make a pretty big choice, who knows if it will carry over into ME3 though.

[radtz]

On my first suicide mission I put the drell on the tech mission because I liked him least and thought someone HAD to die.



My OMG moment was when there turned out to be a GOOD Geth. ME1 made it sounds like they were the worst thing in the universe except for the Reapers which no oe belives in.



My first play through I did side missions after the IFF and lost my PA. I had a save right before the IFF and went straight to the legion side quest and on to the suicide mission. She STILL died. That p*ssed me off especially when my fish died (again).



My other beef is what happens after the suicide mission. No one really wants to talk about anything accept a sentence about good job on saving the universe. No one would sleep with me (becuase I turned down all of the boys thinking I was going to nail another asari). When I talked to Jack after the mission she said I'm not joining the "Girl's Club" and then won't say another word to me. I felt like I was the only "gIrl" at the party that no one would dance with.



If I could have, I would have put on my space suit, strapped myself into the cockpit chair and opened the airlocks. "GET OFF MY F*CKING SHIP *SSHOLES!" EDI and I would play solitare until we tracked down the ILLusive man so I could kick his *ss.



Other then that, I loved the game

[JKoopman]

Zentrasi wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Well in another "ooops you didn't pick the pre-determined one" I took Legion to the final fight. Makes sense, sniper, high armor penetration weapon, combat drone to help me conserve ammo, bonus shielding. Seemed logical. He survived the final battle only to die in the big explosion where you go and lift the stuff off your teammates....no achivement. %%$^%&%^ now explain that to me?

 Discussion on another thread about the ending seems to suggest that it may in fact be random at the very end. Some players have reported taking Mordin along and having him survive whilst others have had him die in the same fight.

I don't buy that it's random. Did you complete Legion's loyalty mission? Did you complete EVERYONE'S loyalty missions? Because I took Thane and Legion with me in the final mission and both survived.

Sidney wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

I too am
profoundly stumped how anyone could NOT choose Tali/Legion as the tech
specialist or Jack/Samara for the biotic specialist. If you read the
little character descriptions on the selection screen it practically
spells it out for you.

I chose Garrus on the
chance that the game would go all Resident Evil and have me jump into
his shoes for a bit he had tech skills and a better survivability than
Tali would.

Again when the game tells you "any biotic can do it"
why do you doubt that comment given the speaker? Oh right, because
Miranda has been wrong so many times before in the game or heck even in
the mission? In fact, it is her "take me as the leader" option that
actually does work in the diversionary team so she has all the
credibility on decision making.

There's no possible reason Zaeed
shouldn't be able to lead a fire team. Heck, he's the only one that has
likely held that exact job and there's nothing in game or character
story that would change that..

And as I just posted there's no
reason Legion should die in a post-mission cutscene when squishy little
meatbags do survive that crash.

I think it makes sense if you
send Zaeed as your tech specialist or assign Jack as a fire team lead
things should go wrong- and maybe if you do things go even more wrong-
but a lot of this stuff seems awfully arbitrary short of real-world
rationalizations.

Garrus has some tech skills (actually he has a tech skill) but again, the game specifically tells you that you need a tech expert and Garrus having Overload doesn't really qualify him as being an expert.

Miranda is known for being cocky to the point where she thinks she's perfect and can do anything. This is made clear pretty much in her first line of dialog, when Jacob questions her about shooting Wilson and her reply is "I'm never wrong". So when it's pointed out that you need a strong biotic to make an all encompassing barrier around the entire squad and sustain it for an unknown length of time and Miranda spits out that "Technically any biotic could do that job" I knew it was just her pride talking. Besides, I don't want someone who can technically do the job, I want someone who can do the job. Who are the strongest biotics? Samara and Jack. I could possibly understand choosing Miranda for that role (her fight scene with Jack has her pretty much standing her own ground), but choosing Jacob as the biotic specialist seems rather shortsighted.

As for Zaeed as fire team leader, that's a trickier one. I chose him on my first run through the base thinking if he led Blue Suns mercs then he must have some experience leading troops in combat. And for the most part it seemed like he did a fairly good job of it. Thane ended up dying while the door closed, but that was likely due to my ignorant choice of him as specialist my first time and when I reloaded I chose Garrus as fire team leader so I can't really say what would've happened if Zaeed had remained in charge. In my opinion, Zaeed should make a good enough leader. But Garrus seems to be the clear choice there as well in hindsight.

[mundus66]

Daveastation wrote...

I agree.  As far as 2nd acts go, ME2 is amazing!  I absolutely loved everything related to Legion's storyline.

Obviously when you already know about the reaper threat, finding out that the reapers are "changing it up" and trying different things isn't really a surprise.  The guy that posted the comparison to the Two Towers is right on the money.  The whole "The collectors are Protheans" thing was pretty interesting too, and Joker's Mission was also awesome.

The Two Towers is definitely not the same (the book). Tolkien wrote the whole story as a long book, but the publishers though it was to long and they splitted it up in 3 parts.

Middle act is usually hard to to cause it has to tie in the story very well and save some good parts for the end. The Two Towers (again the book) shouldn't be seen as the middle act, but rather as the middle part of 1 book. In fact, its considered by many, to be the best book in the trilogy. And i case you didn't know, like 40% of the Return of the King movie, is taken from The Two Towers book.

[CDClock]

The game was good up until the human reaper.