233 réponses à ce sujet

[Graunt]

Malidinus wrote...

In ME1 the combat didn't have much to offer, but it was easy enough for me to brush aside. The combat wasn't really in the way. In ME2 the whole game is based on combat system that just doesn't work. No, I haven't yet tried Adept on insanity and I probably won't either as the class just isn't appealing to me on any level. Also, in the original ME the squad mates were a big help. One would also develop the characters so that you had the same squad in use most of the time. Now in ME2 they are just in the way all too often and at the very least it makes no darn difference who you take with you. Before your squad mates had specific skills and now they don't display any skills until at the very end where you can use them as 'specialists'.

Eh, the original game's squad AI was horrible and the new AI is a tremedous improvement.  They are still dumb, but nothing like in the first game, and the only reason you brought them along in the first was so you could have 2-4 unique abilities that were essentially skill points on YOUR character since you had to manually control them anyway for them to be of any use while they were merrily shooting boxes, walls, the Mako and even each other.  Of course, there were also the elevator rides that people complain about, where you actually got to hear some banter between squadmates.  They don't have much to say at all this time around.

I do agree with you about the combat in general though, and it's not harder it's just different.  What I really don't like is how every new area looks like it was intentionally designed to be a military training ground each time you enter a "combat" area no matter where it is just so they cover system would work.  It makes everything look so contrived.

Get outta here with this ****.
You just don't get it. Plain and simple.
You DON'T get it.

He actually summed it up quite fine.  ME2 is nothing more than a console shooter with some nice interactive cut scenes and a really fantasitc art design and realized universe.

Modifié par Graunt, 05 février 2010 - 10:07 .

[SithLordExarKun]

Malidinus wrote...



The combat is quite broken on many levels. ME1 combat definitely wasn't a gem either but it still worked out better. Making the cover less effective (for players) and a major AI overhaul could tip the scale to favor ME2 combat.. but for now the combat system is among the worst I've seen. I do admit that I was excited during the first 2 fights in the game but it soon hit me that the combat was just different, not at all better. And soon enough you knew exactly what to expect even before you even saw any enemies.

Are you serious? The combat in ME1 was utter turd and clunky along with the fact that the AI was absolutely retarded.

Coldcall01 wrote...



Sorry mate but both Oblivion
and Fallout 3 are far more deeper complex games than ME2. But ya
Fallout 1 & 2 were even better.

You must be kidding, fallout 3 was far from a "complex" game.

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 05 février 2010 - 12:05 .

[Ibby1kanobi]

Cool story, bro. Cya around.

[DarthCaine]

I wish someone from BioWare would come and say:

You're welcome!

Modifié par DarthCaine, 05 février 2010 - 12:22 .

[Satanicfirewraith]

SparhockOnline wrote...

Think of the first mission in ME1, where you find the smugglers who found a pistol. Apparently it is a big deal that they even found ONE pistol, yet scattered in every persons handbag is a veritable arsenal of everything you need to be a galactic bad #$@. Think about it.

Oh you mean the civilain that was napping before the attack and hid during the attack because he was a dock worker not a solider??
Yeah I think that would be right... I sure as hell wouldn't be trying to fight heavily armer geth even if I had alot of weapons! I aint no solider, I sure as hell aint going to get killed for that when I could hide my ass out till it was over!

[Satanicfirewraith]

Anticitizen1 wrote...

Get outta here with this ****.
You just don't get it. Plain and simple.
You DON'T get it.

lol no sir I believe its you who should get the **** out as your the one who does not get it.

ME 2 is good, but it has just as many flaws and very bad design choices as ME1 had.
90% of what made ME a great game was downgraded, so they could make it more shooterish to draw in more people. Which is a bad thing. You gut most of what makes the base game good, instead of improving the bad elements, and all you do is hurt the game, and ****** off your fanbase of the game.

[sedrikhcain]

Veex wrote...


You might want to seriously consider the fact that Mass Effect wasn't ever intended to be a Dragon Age or Baldur's Gate, and that BioWare is simply refining on a concept they failed to implement in the first.

Yeah see this is what it boils down to. Varying definitions of what constitutes an RPG. I can understand that if you're the type of hardcore RPG person who just isn't happy without being able to lute everything in sight and customize your armor more than a Nascar driver then ME2 isn't going to be your thing.

The only part of the equation that doesn't add up for me is that ME1 wasn't exactly Neverwinter Nights in these respects either, so I don't understand why some of you were expecting this one to be.

Another poster who considers himself a big RPG guy told me he actually felt that since the game has a story to tell it limits the extent to which you can mold Shepard's character. He also felt that the inventory didn't need to be as large as in the first one but it should have FAR more meaningful variety -- different weapons that actually create significant gameplay choices.

These are valid complaints. I wouldn't change too much about the ways you can or can't affect Shep's character, because then you start messing with the franchise's greatest strength, its story and how it's told. But his suggestion about the inventory, while not essential to my enjoyment is one i would welcome.

By contrast, so many posts just seemed bummed about because they can't raid every box/locker and dead body. That's not what makes any kind of game to me, let alone an RPG. Everyone likes what they like and that's fine but I sure hope we don't have to pick through everything we see in ME3, just to appease that group.

[GHOST OF FRUITY]

sedrikhcain wrote...

Veex wrote...


You might want to seriously consider the fact that Mass Effect wasn't ever intended to be a Dragon Age or Baldur's Gate, and that BioWare is simply refining on a concept they failed to implement in the first.

Yeah see this is what it boils down to. Varying definitions of what constitutes an RPG. I can understand that if you're the type of hardcore RPG person who just isn't happy without being able to lute everything in sight and customize your armor more than a Nascar driver then ME2 isn't going to be your thing.

The only part of the equation that doesn't add up for me is that ME1 wasn't exactly Neverwinter Nights in these respects either, so I don't understand why some of you were expecting this one to be.

Another poster who considers himself a big RPG guy told me he actually felt that since the game has a story to tell it limits the extent to which you can mold Shepard's character. He also felt that the inventory didn't need to be as large as in the first one but it should have FAR more meaningful variety -- different weapons that actually create significant gameplay choices.

These are valid complaints. I wouldn't change too much about the ways you can or can't affect Shep's character, because then you start messing with the franchise's greatest strength, its story and how it's told. But his suggestion about the inventory, while not essential to my enjoyment is one i would welcome.

By contrast, so many posts just seemed bummed about because they can't raid every box/locker and dead body. That's not what makes any kind of game to me, let alone an RPG. Everyone likes what they like and that's fine but I sure hope we don't have to pick through everything we see in ME3, just to appease that group.

Well said. 

What exactly constitutes an RPG seems to be very broad in terms of opinion.  Everyone has a different expectation of what they believe an RPG is, and if something doesn't measure up to that expectation - the bottom lip starts to wobble.

ME2, as great as it is, can certainly be improved upon for when ME3 appears - and no doubt Bioware themselves will be thinking that.  But they'll also know that no matter what they do with ME3, someone somewhere will be unhappy - and you can bet that they'll make sure the whole world knows it.

I'd like to see more character customisation and a greater emphasis on exploration like other people would - but only if having these elements is enjoyable and enhances the gaming experience.  I don't want these elements just because they fit into what an RPG is supposed to be.   Having tried and trusted RPG elements in a game will only make that game an RPG in name  - they won't neccesarily make it a 'good' RPG. 

Either way, Bioware will do as they will with ME3, and I'll enjoy it for what it is.  Many others won't but all power to them - that's choice.

[Selvec_Darkon]

It's a different experience, not at all the one I expected after ME1, which left me disappointed also. But once you get past the fact that it is very different to ME1, and enjoy it for a shooter with RPG elements instead of an RPG with Shooter Elements, the game becomes better.

[SerenityRebirth]

[TheConfidenceMan]

They should have Obsidian make Mass Effect 3.

[jtd00123]

Graunt wrote...

jtd00123 wrote...

PestiPasta wrote...

It's a great game no doubt, but 90% of responses to criticisms of the game on this forum are greeted with fanboy-esque responses, even if the poster is making valid points.

It's pretty sad.

Don't equate valid with nitpicking.  I will say that many of his points are true, but I thought that most of the changes he is pointing out are for the better.  It is quite common fans to hate any changes made in sequels, no matter how small or trivial.  This rant is fairly consistent with a person who, once attached to a game, is completely resistant to change. 

He is right about the text however.

Unless the changes are actually an improvement over what a person enjoyed in the previous game in a series it's not just being resistant to change, it's being resistant to bad changes.  I'd have to say they made about as many bad changes to this game as they did good, and because of the bad changes the replayability factor just isn't there for me like it was in the first.

Bad changes on whose standard?  Most of the changes were made because the vast majority thought the inventory was clunky, the ammo system blew, the AI blew, the shooter elements weak, there was too much junk to collect, etc.  Some of those the OP mentioned are legitimate, but some are definitely resistance to good changes. 

I have to laugh that fans of the original ME are elevating themselves to RPG purists. 5 years ago, by "purist" standards Mass Effect would be the antithesis of an RPG.   I've been an RPG fan since Ultima, and I've seen this "imma hardcore rpg fan" pattern since  Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, etc.

I mean, you are defending the sanctity of a shooter-RPG for crying out loud.  If they are upset at the shooter elements, by their own standards they shouldn't have played the original Mass Effect to begin with.  

  Hell, at one time Baldur's Gate was attacked by "purists" as a simplified RPG meant to target the mainstream.  And it was, but it was still one of the greatest RPGs ever made.

The RPG genre has changed and has gradually become more user-friendly since the original Bard's Tale in the 80s.  The "purists" do like mainstream changes to the genre (otherwise they wouldn't be on a Bioware forum), just not when the changes don't meet their personal standard.

Most of the greatest RPGs of all time (Planescape included) were and still are very mainstream friendly. 

Modifié par jtd00123, 05 février 2010 - 03:56 .

[AntiChri5]

Hasnt Obsidian dropped the ball with enough Bioware sequals?

[WillieStyle]

Gatt9 wrote...

3.  Honestly,  if anyone thinks the combat is "Insanely intense" you're either intentionally deluding yourself,  or this is the first game you've ever played.  The AI makes no effort to use cover,  flank you,  flush you out,  or anything other than follow a path without interruption.  You can shoot it all day long as it follows said path without it responding or altering course.  It won't use team tactics,  it won't try to draw you out,  it won't take advantage of your fire being on someone else.  It's late 1990's AI,  Quake era.  Basically,  it'll follow a predestined path and then stand there stupidly and occasionally shoot in your general direction. 

This entire quote is a lie.
Look, if you feel that looting items to sell to vendors is the quintessential RPG feature, feel free to say so.  If you think unlimitted ammo is the only way to make a true RPG, feel free to say so.  But you don't get to make things up.  You are entitled to your own opinions but not your facts.

The enemy AI in ME2 is VASTLY improved over ME1.  The AI does everything you claim it doesn't.  Regular mobs will use cover carefully.  They will dive out from cover to shoot bursts of fire and go back under again.  If they need to come at you (because they use shot guns or are melee mobs for instance) they will take a strafing path, using what cover lies in the way to protect themselves.

Also, regular mobs WILL try to flank you.  If you don't keep track of all the enemies in the fight, and try to pin them down with suppressing fire, they will use cover to circle around your position, and the next thing you know, you'll be taking shotgun shells in the back.

And enemies switch targets intelligently.  If your squad mates dive behind cover and you break out in the open, you have about 2 seconds before enemies train their weapons on you and try to take you down.

And this doesn't even count enemies like [Spoiler] who will charge your position to flush you out, or [Spoiler] who will use biotic abilities to pull you out of cover.

Like I said, complain about ME2 all you like.  But don't lie to people who may not have bought the game yet.  The combat in ME2 is intense; and the newly improved enemy AI is a big reason why.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 05 février 2010 - 04:10 .

[medlish]

Yes, the franchise is messed because you didn't buy glasses.

[sedrikhcain]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

They should have Obsidian make Mass Effect 3.

LOL! With Darth Treya as the ultimate threat to organic life in the galaxy?

[Warlock Angel22]

Running out of clips is a great thing. Unlimited ammo is tres gay. Some of the stuff people are complaining about would make the game less of an rpg.

[Akinra]

sedrikhcain wrote...

Veex wrote...


You might want to seriously consider the fact that Mass Effect wasn't ever intended to be a Dragon Age or Baldur's Gate, and that BioWare is simply refining on a concept they failed to implement in the first.

Yeah see this is what it boils down to. Varying definitions of what constitutes an RPG. I can understand that if you're the type of hardcore RPG person who just isn't happy without being able to lute everything in sight and customize your armor more than a Nascar driver then ME2 isn't going to be your thing.

When I read this, the salarian games seller in the citadel comes to mind. There's a comment he makes along the lines of how he hates people who want RPGs to be like they were in the old days, when you had to remember to drink water and you had travel for 5 hours in real time to get anywhere.

[Matterialize]

Ibby1kanobi wrote...

Cool story, bro. Cya around.

This.

Weren't most of these changes based on player feedback, anyway? OP is welcome to his opinion but he's definitely part of the minority.

[Dr. Impossible]

corebit wrote...

99% of the these incoherent whining posts are started by unregistered newbies. OP you want us to take you seriously, register the game.

What would that accomplish? Oh that's right, nothing. If his game was registered you would just come up with another excuse.

[Suron]

BS Veyron wrote...

About the Thermal clip bit, read the Codex about thermal clips and how the Geth developed them. A trained rifleman can swap out a clip in under a second and keep firing instead of waiting many seconds for his rifle to cool. More seconds than you would have available when under fire.

yah...this...great...oh wait..that is until you run out of "coolant" and now CAN'T FIRE AT ALL...anyone in their RIGHT MIND would trade extra cooloff time to be able to be able to fight instead of NOT BEING ABLE TO FIGHT AT ALL.

no..the codex entry and explanation of this "upgrade" is stupid...makes no common sense...and is just poorly put in.

Hey I LIKE having to worry about ammo..but it doesn't change the fact that you gotta be ALL kinda of SIMPLE to accept any civilization in their right MINDS would accept this as an "upgrade."

Because now instead of having to hide behind cover while waiting for your weapon to "cool down" before you can get back into the fight..you now have to hide behind cover and hope the enemy forget's you're there because you are TOTALLY DEFENSELESS.

I can't believe anyone actually thinks this is an acceptable explanation.

[Darth Drago]

To add more fuel to the fire…

-I’m not to pleased that when I started the game (not importing one from ME1) with a male Shepard that the game went with the renegade outcome and already chose who I let die on Virmire including Wrex apparently. That seems a rather extreme and dark default start.

If I play as a female Shepard does the game choose the paragon ending from ME1?

To me, these options should have been available to choose before the game started while in the character create section. Even if the player never played the first game these would be just options for them to choose and change on their next run through the game. Then you could have fine tuned the details with a longer questioning session with Miranda on the shuttle.

-The missing mini map is now annoying in a few situations. In combat I like to know where my companions are so I can adjust what I’m doing for where they are. Also just from walking around with the mini map I can easily tell what direction I’m heading and just as important if one of my companions got stuck someplace.

-Not being able to zoom in on the map, when I actually get access to one it a bit of a let down as well.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 05 février 2010 - 07:54 .

[Anticitizen1]

I look forward to Darth Drago Videogame studios. Where all titles are A+++ and flawless.

Modifié par Anticitizen1, 05 février 2010 - 08:00 .