20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Ultai]

Given that some people want Shep to die no matter what at the end of the trilogy, I can only imagine what that would do to Jack. Here she finally finds someone who's willing to deal with her difficult demeanor and baggage, perhaps giving love a 2nd chance, then ends up leaving her in a "blaze of glory" or whatever. If anything I'd imagine there would be multiple endings. But I was thinking if dying was the only way for Shep to go, Jack could end up going with him...but who knows.

There better be a Shep lives ending, because as my main said in the suicide mission "I'll do whatever it takes to stop the Collectors, but I plan to live to tell about it"

Modifié par Ultai, 23 mars 2010 - 04:03 .

[royceclemens]

We're beating ASHLEY, too. That's what shocks the hell out of me.

[Booglarize]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind an ending where Jack and Shepard go down together. In fact, if it's well done, it could potentially be the most awesome end to a BioWare game ever.

Modifié par Booglarize, 23 mars 2010 - 04:07 .

[Jackal904]

Booglarize wrote...

Honestly, I wouldn't mind an ending where Jack and Shepard go down together. In fact, if it's well done, it could potentially be the most awesome end to a BioWare game ever.

This is what I picture happening. I picture them isolated in some small space together as everything is going to hell and the reapers are invading. Explosions are going on outside, everything is falling apart, and they're just sitting together, waiting for the end.

Modifié par Jackal904, 23 mars 2010 - 04:17 .

[adriano_c]

Booglarize wrote...

You know, this is precisely why I get the sneaking suspicion that the Jack saga won't end happily. It would just be too... perfect. And BioWare seem to have a knack for writing some tragic and/or frustrating conclusions every so often, especially when it comes to the darker and more complex characters. 

With that said, wouldn't it be a bit predictable if Jack (the "darker and more complex character" of this story) had a less than happy ending? Bioware's played that card a few times now.

Hopefully they try and do something different.

Perhaps Tali ends up in a pine box ejected from a flotilla ship?

That'd be quite novel.

[Occams Razor 17]

Jackal904 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

Honestly, I wouldn't mind an ending where Jack and Shepard go down together. In fact, if it's well done, it could potentially be the most awesome end to a BioWare game ever.

This is what I picture happening. I picture them isolated in some small space together as everything is going to hell and the reapers are invading. Explosions are going on outside, everything is falling apart, and they're just sitting together, waiting for the end.

I could see a similar ending, though definitely not with them "just sitting together"...if there are foes within slaying range, then they'll go down shooting, if not... 

@adriano_c:  Yeah, Bioware has played that card quite a lot, but they don't seem inclined to stop playing that card anytime soon.  It would be nice if, for once, the romance that was darker didn't have to end completely bittersweet though.

Modifié par Occams Razor 17, 23 mars 2010 - 04:19 .

[Noilly Prat]

Damn, 100+ pages.  I'm a little late with this, but-- good show, Jack people!

I agree with Mondo's assessment of the qualities of the romance characters.  I am a fan of Tali (though I feel a bit strange saying it here, after learning what that label means on these boards), and I like her romance because I like her character and because, as we learn, it is building off of a relationship that was started in the first game, making it a nice bit of service for us fans.  I also like that the difficulties presented by the physiological differences between the characters plays a major part in the romance; this is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to see in the Liara romance in ME1.  (Not that asari are subject to the same sorts of physical limitations that quarians are, but I thought that interspecies differences and the issue of the big shot Alliance soldier slash first human Spectre getting involved with an alien-- and the spawn of a villain, at that-- should have been afforded more attention.)

At any rate, I like Jack's romance more, because, as much as I like Tali and as sweet as her romance may be, I'm just thoroughly put off by videogame romances (or any other kind, actually) in which the guy assumes the mantle of Great Protector to the girl.  (The roles could theoretically be reversed, but usually aren't.)  In fact, I'd call it a testament to the tasteful handling of the Tali romance and her qualities as a character that I still managed to like the whole thing.

This attitude also informed my choices of love interest in Baldur's Gate 2 quite heavily.

Edit: Wow, I took a long time getting this posted.  I'l already a bit behind things.  Oh well.

Modifié par Noilly Prat, 23 mars 2010 - 04:23 .

[adriano_c]

Occams Razor 17 wrote...

@adriano_c:  Yeah, Bioware has played that card quite a lot, but they don't seem inclined to stop playing that card anytime soon.  It would be nice if, for once, the romance that was darker didn't have to end completely bittersweet though.

A shame, as well. As much as I enjoy most of their games, they're often really formulaic. Sure, why fix what isn't broken, but it's getting on to broken record status, I feel.

[Jackal904]

Occams Razor 17 wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

Honestly, I wouldn't mind an ending where Jack and Shepard go down together. In fact, if it's well done, it could potentially be the most awesome end to a BioWare game ever.

This is what I picture happening. I picture them isolated in some small space together as everything is going to hell and the reapers are invading. Explosions are going on outside, everything is falling apart, and they're just sitting together, waiting for the end.

I could see a similar ending, though definitely not with them "just sitting together"...if there are foes within slaying range, then they'll go down shooting, if not... 

If they die in the end I think it would be much more powerful if they weren't fighting and instead were on some planet, preferable Earth, as the reapers are invading, no geth or collectors, just reapers. There is nothing their guns can do against a fleet of reapers. The Normandy is gone, they know it's over. Shepard and Jack are in a small room, you can hear people screaming outside as the reapers are destroying everything, Chaos surrounds them. They're holding eachother during their last few minutes as the camera very slowly zooms out and the screen fades to black.

Now that would be a pretty emotional ending. At least I think so .

Modifié par Jackal904, 23 mars 2010 - 04:41 .

[Azint]

Here is what I thought of Jack;

A rather boisterous woman with powers to match her foolhardy nature, she is abrasive but confident. She is one of the boldest and more memorable characters from ME because of her attributes and appearance. I thought she was one of the most beautifully designed characters, her history is very spotty and not much is told of it, but her appearance reveals everything you needed to know about her. Jack is quite lean and due to her clothing or lackoff you can see how diminutive she really is. Most people view her as a shallow attempt at fanservice because of how much skin you can see when the point was it was the tattoos that were really meant to be revealed. The way the tattoos are designed I thought was the best feature about her, appearance-wise, I myself am rather fond of that large omega symbol on her back.

Her loyalty mission, while short, was one of the best ones because it was one of the few loyatly missions where it was about exploring the character themself and not just a problem they have. Jack states that she was abused and tested on for her capabilites as a biotic, this is also what lends to her hate torwards Cerberus. But upon investigation, her bewilderment and confusion on the background of her history adds depth to her, Jack was so sure of herself and who she was, she could not take the truth of what really happened. This I thought was one of the best cases of a character in denial, she literally forced herself to remember things differently so she can accept who she is. Sparing Aresh was also a crowning moment for her because that was her first step torwards acceptance.

The romance path for Jack was also one of the best part of Mass Effect 2. Initially temperamental, she views everyone as callous as herself, but showing genuine interest in her, Jack begins to recee that outlook. Jack is insecure about having feelings because of what happened to her last lover, after so much anguish and betrayal she was so shocked to find someone who actually cared for her. This guilt is what keeps her from getting attached to people, and reassuring her that she will be taken care of really shows Jack as she truly is.

That's why I think Jack is one of the best characters.

Modifié par Azint, 23 mars 2010 - 04:44 .

[Booglarize]

  

Jackal904 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

Honestly, I wouldn't mind an ending where Jack and Shepard go down together. In fact, if it's well done, it could potentially be the most awesome end to a BioWare game ever.

This is what I picture happening. I picture them isolated in some small space together as everything is going to hell and the reapers are invading. Explosions are going on outside, everything is falling apart, and they're just sitting together, waiting for the end.

That could work. Or perhaps it could be something a bit more frantic. Like the bit during the ME2 ending where someone looks like they're about to fall off the platform - but now, someone (Jack, perhaps) actually does fall off, seemingly into oblivion. 

Only this time Shepard, in one final fit of emotion, decides to jump in after her - knowing full well that there's no surviving this. Or who knows, perhaps it's the only rational thing left to do if coming back alive was out of the question to begin with. 

He steadies himself, streamlining his body so as to cut through the air faster in order to close the gap between himself and Jack. After a few agonizing seconds, he does catch up to her. He reaches out and pulls her towards himself - they remain locked in one last embrace as they spiral downwards, gazing into each other's eyes right up until the final apocalyptic moment. 

[tommyt_1994]

Hey guys and gals I just dropped by to show my suport for jack. She's an extremely interestng character and one of my favorite LIs. I'm really hoping her fanbase explodes before ME3 so her likelihood for retuning as a squadmate/LI will greatly increase. Keep jack alive

[Barrendall]

I like the tattoo that resembles a compass sign for a map. It's probably only cosmetic but I wonder if there is a deeper meaning behind it about her character. Crazy the things you think about when a character in a game grabs you.

[Jackal904]

Booglarize wrote...

  

Jackal904 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

Honestly, I wouldn't mind an ending where Jack and Shepard go down together. In fact, if it's well done, it could potentially be the most awesome end to a BioWare game ever.

This is what I picture happening. I picture them isolated in some small space together as everything is going to hell and the reapers are invading. Explosions are going on outside, everything is falling apart, and they're just sitting together, waiting for the end.

That could work. Or perhaps it could be something a bit more frantic. Like the bit during the ME2 ending where someone looks like they're about to fall off the platform - but now, someone (Jack, perhaps) actually does fall off, seemingly into oblivion. 

Only this time Shepard, in one final fit of emotion, decides to jump in after her - knowing full well that there's no surviving this. Or who knows, perhaps it's the only rational thing left to do if coming back alive was out of the question to begin with. 

He steadies himself, streamlining his body so as to cut through the air faster in order to close the gap between himself and Jack. After a few agonizing seconds, he does catch up to her. He reaches out and pulls her towards himself - they remain locked in one last embrace as they spiral downwards, gazing into each other's eyes right up until the final apocalyptic moment. 

That would be really good too, but I would be irritated by why Jack doesn't use her biotics to fly. It bugged me a little bit that she doesn't use her biotics to prevent her falling at the part you mentioned, but you could argue that it happened so fast she couldn't really get a grip on things. But if your falling for a while you'd think you would be able to get a hold of yourself and whip out those super biotics and grow some blue wings so to speak.

I guess any apocolyptic scenario where they're holding eachother during their final minutes would be pretty powerful and emotional.

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

Ok, I think it's time for me to have another little rant about Jack...

::Expert analysis follows::

Sterling.  Absolutely sterling.  I've noticed that we here at Into The Bad Girl take a very externalized view of Jack.  While everyone else talks about how pretty or physically endowed their chosen LI is, we talk about tattoo texture.  We talk about dialogue quality.  We talk about the voice actress.  We've even talked about the lighting.  But it's nice to know that in our discussions, we haven't lost sight of the baseline emotional attachment to this character that BioWare has allowed us to have.

The way this male gamer sees it, a great love story involves one or both parties being, well, better than they were before.  Any idiot can fall in love, but only the great can reach into themselves and be the hero they read about when they were kids.  If Rick got on the plane with Ilsa, after all, we'd have been denied a legend.

And with Jack, it's two-fold.  Can we as gamers brook Jack's firewalls?  Look past the ink and foul mouth and defense mechanisms and see the angel?  Can we say no to the girl upstairs who will walk away with us, no questions asked?  Also, can Jack finally defeat the psychic assault  that is every single memory she has?  Cerberus set out to make the ultimate weapon, damn the consequences... And they won.  They did what they set out to do.  And they've kept winning every day since she escaped, as long as she holds into it, letting it corrode her from the inside out.

More than that, though, is that the overriding themes of the entire franchise are distilled into Jack.  Man's uncertain future in an uncaring universe, and Jack is the worst case scenario.  A single human being the victim of every single political oversight, greedy impulse and lust for power that we dared comprehend.  If this can be defeated in the amphitheater of the psyche of one girl, then it gives us hope that it can be defeated on the larger scale. 

Or, y'know... Something like that... Just me talkin', though.

Wow... I blather on and you manage to distil it all into a couple of paragraphs. That's pretty damn fine, my friend
Personally I have a point of view like Morgan Freeman at the end of Se7en - it might be an ugly, revolting and unfeeling world man inhabits, but underneath all the **** that it's too easy to dwell on, it's a good place at heart, and worth fighting for. The best weapon you have is hope... and if you hope, you can slay any dragon over time.

I'm hoping Bioware are kind to our girl... you can only kick the puppy so much. She's earned a little respite. I'm a fan (and a lot of folk say I'm insane for this) of the old original cut of Blade Runner... that Marlowe voiceover made it for me. That and the end... "however much time we might have"... even if it has to be something that bittersweet, it'll be better than the shotgun behind the barn, you know?

So, Hope for Jack everyone... hey, we could start a charity... like Ramones-Aid

[Mondo47]

Booglarize wrote...

  

Jackal904 wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

Honestly, I wouldn't mind an ending where Jack and Shepard go down together. In fact, if it's well done, it could potentially be the most awesome end to a BioWare game ever.

This is what I picture happening. I picture them isolated in some small space together as everything is going to hell and the reapers are invading. Explosions are going on outside, everything is falling apart, and they're just sitting together, waiting for the end.

That could work. Or perhaps it could be something a bit more frantic. Like the bit during the ME2 ending where someone looks like they're about to fall off the platform - but now, someone (Jack, perhaps) actually does fall off, seemingly into oblivion. 

Only this time Shepard, in one final fit of emotion, decides to jump in after her - knowing full well that there's no surviving this. Or who knows, perhaps it's the only rational thing left to do if coming back alive was out of the question to begin with. 

He steadies himself, streamlining his body so as to cut through the air faster in order to close the gap between himself and Jack. After a few agonizing seconds, he does catch up to her. He reaches out and pulls her towards himself - they remain locked in one last embrace as they spiral downwards, gazing into each other's eyes right up until the final apocalyptic moment. 

I've got my own idea for a good tear-jerking dying-together moment... something for me to pop in here tomorrow methinks...

[Booglarize]

Jackal904 wrote...

That would be really good too, but I would be irritated by why Jack doesn't use her biotics to fly. It bugged me a little bit that she doesn't use her biotics to prevent her falling at the part you mentioned, but you could argue that it happened so fast she couldn't really get a grip on things. But if your falling for a while you'd think you would be able to get a hold of yourself and whip out those super biotics and grow some blue wings so to speak.

Hmm... I always thought of biotic 'flight' as more a kind of temporary levitation, which wouldn't really be as useful if there wasn't anything stable to land/grab on to nearby. If it actually could enable to fly then there's quite a few scenes from the games that wouldn't make sense (including Shepard's own death scene, assuming you picked a biotic class).

[royceclemens]

The more I think about it, though, the more I think whether you romanced a certain character will have a bearing on whether said character lives or dies. I don't think it'll uniform to all of them, but it could happen.

But if there's anyone on a dark path that's headed towards death, it isn't Jack. It's Liara.

Think about it, she's already compromised her morals to bring you back from the dead, so there's no telling where she might stop. If you romanced her, you can "pull her from the brink," so to speak. If you didn't then it's tragedy of Shakespearian proportions.

Jack on the other hand? Even if you didn't romance her, you had to gain her loyalty for her to live into ME3. Which means she blew up Teltin, which means she's on the road to some kind of recovery. I'm not saying she will die or she won't, but I am saying it's about as likely as, oh... Jacob.

So Jack is at least relatively safe, I think.

Modifié par royceclemens, 23 mars 2010 - 04:56 .

[Booglarize]

Mondo47 wrote...

I've got my own idea for a good tear-jerking dying-together moment... something for me to pop in here tomorrow methinks...

Oh dear... I'm simultaneously looking forward to this and dreading it at the same moment. Of course, I don't think any such scene would be truly complete without a few closing remarks between the characters - but I didn't bother to try for it because I generally suck at dialogues (well, dialogues for characters that I haven't made myself, at any rate). 

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

The more I think about it, though, the more I think whether you romanced a certain character will have a bearing on whether said character lives or dies. I don't think it'll uniform to all of them, but it could happen.

But if there's anyone on a dark path that's headed towards death, it isn't Jack. It's Liara.

Think about it, she's already compromised her morals to bring you back from the dead, so there's no telling where she might stop. If you romanced her, you can "pull her from the brink," so to speak. If you didn't then it's tragedy of Shakespearian proportions.

Jack on the other hand? Even if you didn't romance her, you had to gain her loyalty for her to live into ME3. Which means she blew up Teltin, which means she's on the road to some kind of recovery. I'm not saying she will die or she won't, but I am saying it's about as likely as, oh... Jacob.

So Jack is at least relatively safe, I think.

Logical... maybe we're just scared Bioware are going to be mean to us and take our favorite ball away

And in case you're too young, let Joey explain what I was going on about when I said Ramones Aid

[Ultai]

Mondo47 wrote...

I've got my own idea for a good tear-jerking dying-together moment... something for me to pop in here tomorrow methinks...

Oh no...if your past fanfics were any indication... >_>

Modifié par Ultai, 23 mars 2010 - 05:06 .

[Ilzairspar]

royceclemens wrote...

The more I think about it, though, the more I think whether you romanced a certain character will have a bearing on whether said character lives or dies. I don't think it'll uniform to all of them, but it could happen.

But if there's anyone on a dark path that's headed towards death, it isn't Jack. It's Liara.

Think about it, she's already compromised her morals to bring you back from the dead, so there's no telling where she might stop. If you romanced her, you can "pull her from the brink," so to speak. If you didn't then it's tragedy of Shakespearian proportions.

Jack on the other hand? Even if you didn't romance her, you had to gain her loyalty for her to live into ME3. Which means she blew up Teltin, which means she's on the road to some kind of recovery. I'm not saying she will die or she won't, but I am saying it's about as likely as, oh... Jacob.

So Jack is at least relatively safe, I think.

Thanks for thinking of a glimmer of hope for our Jack in ME3.  All this tragedy was starting to make me a bit depressed, Jack's had enough bad in her life after all.

EDIT: On a completely unrelated point, Jack seems to be beating Miranda in the overall votes (one less in the male player category) and is still only 6 votes under Liara overall. 

Yes I know it's petty but we have to take what we can get. 

Modifié par Ilzairspar, 23 mars 2010 - 05:57 .

[royceclemens]

Booglarize wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

I've got my own idea for a good tear-jerking dying-together moment... something for me to pop in here tomorrow methinks...

Oh dear... I'm simultaneously looking forward to this and dreading it at the same moment. Of course, I don't think any such scene would be truly complete without a few closing remarks between the characters - but I didn't bother to try for it because I generally suck at dialogues (well, dialogues for characters that I haven't made myself, at any rate). 

Okay, now this is bugging the hell out of me...

-Booglarize apparently writes.

-Mondo47 writes (and damned well).

-BobbyTheI said something about fifteen pages back, saying if I recall correctly that he "wants to get back into writing."

-Axl's an artist.

-We have a graphic designer trying to retexture Jack.

-Epantiras rocks the comics.

-And I'm a [EDITED FOR SAFETY].

So... Is this the Jack fanbase?  Artists and writers?  Creative types?

Modifié par royceclemens, 23 mars 2010 - 06:43 .

[BobbyTheI]

royceclemens wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

I've got my own idea for a good tear-jerking dying-together moment... something for me to pop in here tomorrow methinks...

Oh dear... I'm simultaneously looking forward to this and dreading it at the same moment. Of course, I don't think any such scene would be truly complete without a few closing remarks between the characters - but I didn't bother to try for it because I generally suck at dialogues (well, dialogues for characters that I haven't made myself, at any rate). 

Okay, now this is bugging the hell out of me...

-Booglarize apparently writes.

-Mondo47 writes (and damned well).

-BobbyTheI said something about fifteen pages back, saying if I recall correctly that he "wants to get back into writing."

-Axl's an artist.

-We have a graphic designer trying to retexture Jack.

-Epantiras rocks the comics.

-And I'm a [EDITED FOR SAFETY].

So... Is this the Jack fanbase?  Artists and writers?  Creative types?

I guess you could say that.  I used to be way into internet roleplaying games.  (Started out in efedding, got sick of wrestling, joined a few other groups).  Have always held a secret hope to write professionally, but can't find the big idea for a novel.  Was thinking about writing a Jack fanfic just to get back into the groove of writing again.

Oh, and of course, there's my ever-creative audio comps.  Funniest thing, I was trying to get together a MaleShep/Garrus compilation just now, but Shepard doesn't want to play ball.   

[Gethforceone]

royceclemens wrote...

Booglarize wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

I've got my own idea for a good tear-jerking dying-together moment... something for me to pop in here tomorrow methinks...

Oh dear... I'm simultaneously looking forward to this and dreading it at the same moment. Of course, I don't think any such scene would be truly complete without a few closing remarks between the characters - but I didn't bother to try for it because I generally suck at dialogues (well, dialogues for characters that I haven't made myself, at any rate). 

Okay, now this is bugging the hell out of me...

-Booglarize apparently writes.

-Mondo47 writes (and damned well).

-BobbyTheI said something about fifteen pages back, saying if I recall correctly that he "wants to get back into writing."

-Axl's an artist.

-We have a graphic designer trying to retexture Jack.

-Epantiras rocks the comics.

-And I'm a [EDITED FOR SAFETY].

So... Is this the Jack fanbase?  Artists and writers?  Creative types?

I guess so.