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[Jackal904]

Urdaniel wrote...

[Stuff]

First of all, welcome! I'm amazed you actually went through every page, that's dedication. I had a similar attitude that you did going into ME2. I didn't hate her going into ME2, I just didn't care for her. I have to say I actually liked it when she called me a **** because I found it a breath of fresh air that someone had the balls to insult Shepard, unlike everyone else who unconditionally kisses your ass. But just after a few conversations I started to become really interested in her, then her loyalty mission completely won me over. I went into my first playthrough on ME2 with my mind dead set on romancing Tali, but that flew out the window after doing Jack's loyalty mission. I have no remote interest in romancing anyone else with my male Shepards. If I want to see any other squadmate's romance dialogue or scene, I just youtube it.

Again, welcome. I've noticed a lot of first time posters in this thread like yourself feel like they have to read every page in this thread in order to contribute to it. I just want to let people know that they shouldn't worry about having not read every post, and to not worry about posting something that may have already been mentioned. We've gone over the same thing a bunch of times and no one is going to make you feel like an outcast if you post in this thread for the first time whether or not you've been following along.

So to any other lurkers of this thread, please feel free to post whether it's a sentence or an essay.

Booglarize wrote...

Jack was definitely the most poorly marketed character out of the lot, and it's a tad depressing to think about the degree to which that alone is responsible for her having the (relatively) small number of fans that she does.

Ya it is frustrating because I think she would be much more popular if she wasn't marketed like a female version of Marcus Fenix. But part of me likes that she isn't as popular as Tali or Miranda. It's like that feeling you have when you really like a band that not many people know about. Like it's more of yours because just you and a few other people know about it and appreciate it.

Modifié par Jackal904, 28 mars 2010 - 03:48 .

[Mkrgross]

Well Urdaniel, welcome. The more, the merrier I say.

[Barrendall]

Booglarize wrote...

Barrendall111 wrote...

Hey guys I read this article from NPR news and I thought it held some relevance and maybe some insight into Jack's behavior as Bioware dubbed her the "Psychopath" I know it's a subject we have probably discussed to death but I figured what the hell, some of you might be interested.

http://www.npr.org/t...137&ft=1&f=1001

I certainly was an eye opener for me.

If anything, I think that just further shows how misapplied the "psychopath" label is on Jack (at least going by the term's technical definition). She doesn't really meet any of the conditions needed to actually be a psychopath - it seems like a buzzword they threw on her just for the heck of it. Almost as bad as her preview video, which Urdaniel touched upon*. Jack was definitely the most poorly marketed character out of the lot, and it's a tad depressing to think about the degree to which that alone is responsible for her having the (relatively) small number of fans that she does.

*Great post, by the way. I heartily welcome you, good sir/madam.

Thanks!    I heartily agree with your assessment too.  Jack's personality seems to lean towards a search for acceptance than what the article stipulates a "Psychopathic persona".  I'm certainly oversimplifying it and leaving much out what makes Jack "Jack", but I'm sure most of the Jackolytes understand what I'm trying to get at.  
Oh and I'm a sir.  

Edit:  oops that wasn't directed at me sorry.  Welcome to the thread Urdaniel!

Modifié par Barrendall111, 28 mars 2010 - 03:47 .

[Chaos-fusion]

Barrendall111 wrote...

Thanks!    I heartily agree with your assessment too.  Jack's personality seems to lean towards a search for acceptance than what the article stipulates a "Psychopathic persona".  I'm certainly oversimplifying it and leaving much out what makes Jack "Jack", but I'm sure most of the Jackolytes understand what I'm trying to get at.  
Oh and I'm a sir.  

A search for acceptance? I'd say the opposite. I always got the feeling Jack wants people to **** off, and leave her alone. The attitude, the way she looks, her going to the quietest, most out-of-the-way part of the ship all give me that impression .. But I've never claimed to be good at people in any way, so I could be way off with my 'assessment'.  It could even be me projecting my feeling on people onto her.

.. I'll just go crawl back under my un-informed rock now..

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 28 mars 2010 - 03:55 .

[Booglarize]

Barrendall111 wrote...

Edit:  oops that wasn't directed at me sorry.  

Well, you've been contributing nicely to this thread for a while, so I guess it kind of went without saying for you. And I actually did particularly enjoy that post of yours as well - I do quite like it when people actually seek out the science behind something, as opposed to simply accepting a label. 

So, all in all - good job, sir 

Modifié par Booglarize, 28 mars 2010 - 04:41 .

[InStereoWhereAvailable]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Barrendall111 wrote...

Thanks!    I heartily agree with your assessment too.  Jack's personality seems to lean towards a search for acceptance than what the article stipulates a "Psychopathic persona".  I'm certainly oversimplifying it and leaving much out what makes Jack "Jack", but I'm sure most of the Jackolytes understand what I'm trying to get at.  
Oh and I'm a sir.  

A search for acceptance? I'd say the opposite. I always got the feeling Jack wants people to **** off, and leave her alone. The attitude, the way she looks, her going to the quietest, most out-of-the-way part of the ship all give me that impression .. But I've never claimed to be good at people in any way, so I could be way off with my 'assessment'.  It could even be me projecting my feeling on people onto her.

.. I'll just go crawl back under my un-informed rock now..

Want to visit my un-informed rock? We can play un-informed poker, and drink some un-informed soda.

Seriously though, Jack definitely wants to be alone, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't want to belong. She talked about being part of an outlaw colony, and a cult, and if I have the slightest idea of how cults work, its that cults tend to prey on those who want to fit in, the misfits, the loners. Of which Jack seems to be. She doesn't really have a place to belong, and her prior experiences with groups have all ended disasterously, so being alone is the best way to protect herself from when she will inevitably be tossed aside, or from killing everyone when she realizes she's been used. She can't form an emotional connection, so she can't be hurt, despite the fact that she does want to belong, is the TL;DR, version of what I'm saying I guess. Am I doing it right, guys?

Reading that back, I am really inarticulate, and I tend to ramble...

Modifié par InStereoWhereAvailable, 28 mars 2010 - 04:22 .

[Booglarize]

Jackal904 wrote...

Ya it is frustrating because I think she would be much more popular if she wasn't marketed like a female version of Marcus Fenix. But part of me likes that she isn't as popular as Tali or Miranda. It's like that feeling you have when you really like a band that not many people know about. Like it's more of yours because just you and a few other people know about it and appreciate it.

Well, on the one hand I guess there is a certain satisfaction which comes with the feeling of being privy to a little-known secret. However, I'd have to say for me, that's outweighed by my apprehension at the thought that if BioWare ends up making development decisions for ME3 based on the overall popularity (or lack thereof) of aspects of ME2, Jack may well end up being one of the casualties. 

Modifié par Booglarize, 28 mars 2010 - 04:26 .

[Jackal904]

Booglarize wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Ya it is frustrating because I think she would be much more popular if she wasn't marketed like a female version of Marcus Fenix. But part of me likes that she isn't as popular as Tali or Miranda. It's like that feeling you have when you really like a band that not many people know about. Like it's more of yours because just you and a few other people know about it and appreciate it.

Well, on the one hand I guess there is a certain satisfaction that comes with the feeling that you're privy to a little-known secret. However, I'd have to say for me, that's outweighed by my apprehension at the thought that if BioWare goes on to make development decisions for ME3 based on the overall popularity (or lack thereof) of aspects of ME2, Jack may well end up being one of the casualties. 

I don't think BioWare is that shallow. They know how great of a character she is and the devs love her. She's the lead concept artist's favorite character, Casey Hudson said she is the most interesting character and that she has a lot of depth, and Christina Norman said her favorite romance is Jack's. I'm confident that BioWare will not eliminate a character just because more people like other squadmates. And they wouldn't eliminate one character you can have as a LI, yet keep other LI's.

Modifié par Jackal904, 28 mars 2010 - 04:28 .

[royceclemens]

With Jack, I've found that it's never really about what Jack means, but how she can communicate what she means. Her backstory is littered with attempts to fit in with anyone, anywhere and none of them have turned out right. They've either used her or died.



The thing is, she won't just come out and say it because, quite frankly, she doesn't know how. She's never made the human contact that can allow her to learn how to express herself outside of double-entendre fortifications of her emotional defenses. This is where the dialogue comes in, as it comes off as a weird kind of jazz music where the notes that aren't being played are every bit as important was the ones that are.



And this is where the guy who wrote for Jacob should have taken notes. The person who wrote for Jack is a master at saying stuff without actually... y'know... Saying stuff.

[Ultai]

Jackal904 wrote...

I don't think BioWare is that shallow. They know how great of a character she is and the devs love her. She's the lead concept artist's favorite character, Casey Hudson said she is the most interesting character and that she has a lot of depth, and Christina Norman said her favorite romance is Jack's. I'm confident that BioWare will not eliminate a character just because more people like other squadmates. And they wouldn't eliminate one character you can have as a LI, yet keep other LI's.

I knew about the first two, nice to know we got 3 important devs on our side...helps keep the hope burning strong.  

[Booglarize]

Ultai wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

I don't think BioWare is that shallow. They know how great of a character she is and the devs love her. She's the lead concept artist's favorite character, Casey Hudson said she is the most interesting character and that she has a lot of depth, and Christina Norman said her favorite romance is Jack's. I'm confident that BioWare will not eliminate a character just because more people like other squadmates. And they wouldn't eliminate one character you can have as a LI, yet keep other LI's.

I knew about the first two, nice to know we got 3 important devs on our side...helps keep the hope burning strong.  

Yeah, that is quite reassuring to hear... but for some reason, I just can't shake my paranoia on this topic. I don't think I'll be able to rest easy till we get some kind of official update on what to expect in ME3 - which won't be for a while, I reckon. 

[Barrendall]

InStereoWhereAvailable wrote...




Want to visit my un-informed rock? We can play un-informed poker, and drink some un-informed soda.

Seriously though, Jack definitely wants to be alone, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't want to belong. She talked about being part of an outlaw colony, and a cult, and if I have the slightest idea of how cults work, its that cults tend to prey on those who want to fit in, the misfits, the loners. Of which Jack seems to be. She doesn't really have a place to belong, and her prior experiences with groups have all ended disasterously, so being alone is the best way to protect herself from when she will inevitably be tossed aside, or from killing everyone when she realizes she's been used. She can't form an emotional connection, so she can't be hurt, despite the fact that she does want to belong, is the TL;DR, version of what I'm saying I guess. Am I doing it right, guys?

Reading that back, I am really inarticulate, and I tend to ramble...

Heh yeah that's pretty much where I was going when I said "search for acceptance".  She met and hooked up with many people and got burnt for her troubles.  I'm sure she wasn't particularly surprised by many of the betrayals but it did seem to bother her.  At least that is what I took from her some of her dialogue.  There were undertones of anger and resentment in her stories.  Maybe I'm reading too much into it because I like her character so well.  "shrug"

[Jackal904]

Well I believe it was Christina Norman who said that all ME2 squadmates will appear in ME3. She didn't specify if they would return as squadmates or not though.

[Barrendall]

Jackal904 wrote...

Well I believe it was Christina Norman who said that all ME2 squadmates will appear in ME3. She didn't specify if they would return as squadmates or not though.

It's a definite possibility that they might only appear as cameos.  I would love to hope they won't but it's all speculation until it's announced.

[KendallX23]

dam..Jack better be a squadmate...erm..then again i pretty much liked every squadmate in ME2..except Zaeed..those eyes looked like he was nuts(wait i think he is nuts)...anyway..sorry for lurking...i like stalking threads..

[InStereoWhereAvailable]

Barrendall111 wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Well I believe it was Christina Norman who said that all ME2 squadmates will appear in ME3. She didn't specify if they would return as squadmates or not though.

It's a definite possibility that they might only appear as cameos.  I would love to hope they won't but it's all speculation until it's announced.

I don't see why they would be cameos. After all, Ashley/Kaiden and Liara were only cameos to make sure they wouldn't be killed before ME3. This way, whatever happens in ME3 involving the ME1 LI will definitely happen (Including Catfights). I don't see why they would relegate anyone to cameos, seeing how there won't be any other game after ME3, and there won't be any suicide mission they have to miss in order to get them there unscathed. Everyone (including Jack) is going on to the final round, provided they weren't voted off in the second (Sorry, bad reality show pun).

[BobbyTheI]

Jackal904 wrote...

Well I believe it was Christina Norman who said that all ME2 squadmates will appear in ME3. She didn't specify if they would return as squadmates or not though.

Unless we're thinking of different comments, I think folks are reading a bit too much into that whole "same team" line in her presentation.  Considering the context of it all, and considering she's more involved on the gameplay side than the writing side, I'm willing to bet she meant "same design team."

But that said, I'm cautiously optimistic Jack will have a big role to play in ME3.  If nothing else, I've said this before, but there's already been a big deal made about how romancing somebody in ME2 will have consequences if you had a previous LI from ME1, and it's not going to have much resonance if the person that Ashley/Liara is pissed about you for screwing is barely even in the game.

[Booglarize]

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about the dire consequences they promised us for cheating in ME2. Going to be pretty hard for them to pull that off without bringing all the LIs back, at the very least - so I guess that's a good sign.

[TheLostGenius]

Her romance sub-plot is probably the more interesting ones. I prefer to carry over my Liara one from ME1.

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

The thing is, she won't just come out and say it because, quite frankly, she doesn't know how. She's never made the human contact that can allow her to learn how to express herself outside of double-entendre fortifications of her emotional defenses. This is where the dialogue comes in, as it comes off as a weird kind of jazz music where the notes that aren't being played are every bit as important was the ones that are.

So Jack is a King Crimson album! I knew I loved her for a reason!

[Booglarize]

Mondo47 wrote...

So Jack is a King Crimson album! I knew I loved her for a reason!

Hah... would it be fair to say that Jack's a 22nd Century Schizoid Woman, then? 

Modifié par Booglarize, 28 mars 2010 - 05:42 .

[Jackal904]

BobbyTheI wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Well I believe it was Christina Norman who said that all ME2 squadmates will appear in ME3. She didn't specify if they would return as squadmates or not though.

Unless we're thinking of different comments, I think folks are reading a bit too much into that whole "same team" line in her presentation.  Considering the context of it all, and considering she's more involved on the gameplay side than the writing side, I'm willing to bet she meant "same design team."

No the comment I'm refering to was not from her presentation. I believe it was from an interview. I think it was on IGN but I'm not sure.

Booglarize wrote...

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about the dire consequences they promised us for cheating in ME2. Going to be pretty hard for them to pull that off without bringing all the LIs back, at the very least - so I guess that's a good sign.

Where is everybody hearing that there will be dire consequences for "cheating" on your ME1 LI in ME2? I did hear Casey Hudson say there would be some kind of conflict in ME3 if you "cheat" on your ME1 LI in ME2, but I never heard a dev say there would be dire consequences. And I keep seeing posts from people saying how there will be some crazy consequences in ME2 for cheating on your ME1 LI.

Modifié par Jackal904, 28 mars 2010 - 05:50 .

[BobbyTheI]

If we're doing musical comparisons, Jack reminds me a lot of Frank Zappa.  A lot of people can get turned off by the vulgar sentiments he/she sometimes expresses, but if you can get past that, you'll find something surprisingly complex and extremely satisfying underlying it all. 

[Barrendall]

 Did Mondo do her daily Jackfiction post today?  I'm looking back and not seeing anything....