20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Occams Razor 17]

BobbyTheI wrote...

Well... it's done.  After all the buildup, and the perusal through the entire ME2 sound file library, here it is, my magnum opus audio edit.

I apologize in advance to everyone. 

The Rite of Passage.

That was awesomeness incarnate; I got quite a good laugh out of it.  Massive kudos on seaming everything together that well!

[stormrain]

Mondo47 wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

One of my favorite tropes.

"Touch me and I will smear the walls with you, ****!"  

"You sound like a ****." 

Don't tell me this didn't go through your head when first meeting Jack.

Modifié par Captain Uccisore, 31 mars 2010 - 01:21 .

[Ilzairspar]

BobbyTheI wrote...

One of my favorite tropes.  

I hate it when you link this site on here.  I've just spent the last hour on there.....

It drags you in.... like a fishing show....or the Japanese version of the Iron Chef...

[Dominus5412]

I always have to promote the most extreme psychological vigilance when I visit TVTropes to make sure I stay just long enough to read the linked article, and no more.

[stormrain]

Ilzairspar wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

One of my favorite tropes.  

I hate it when you link this site on here.  I've just spent the last hour on there.....

It drags you in.... like a fishing show....or the Japanese version of the Iron Chef...

It's like Rickrolling, but you're trapped all day!

[Epantiras]

Mondo47 wrote...



 

Best use of the Alternate Costumes DLC ever ;-)
BTW this really should go in the first post

[royceclemens]

I am heartened by the fact that while Talimancers apparently have NO SENSE OF HUMOR WHATSOEVER, Miranda and Jack being hot for each other has become our running gag.



I hate comparing threads and all, but... Clearly our code is superior. We talk of serious business while not letting it become "seriuz bizniss."



One of the cool things is that we can analyze and discuss the component parts of Jack's scenes instead od the whole, which I will attempt to do, if you'll indulge me. Check out 0:28-1:00 of the video gneissguy put up a couple of weeks back.







It isn't the conversation in and of itself, but the way it's shot. With the exception of the one cut to focus on her face at 0:51, they pulled off a sweet-as-all-hell 360 degree camera pan around Jack as she told her story. A lesser person, a cretinous person, would have turned this into three or four shots.



To me this really lends to how cornered Jack feels in this situation. This is her Break-Glass-In-Case-Of-Emergency story to ward off anyone she might think will get too close. How many people you think she told that story to? Parting with it means letting Shepard in, and she might as well let the whole world in. The way the camera almost invasively moves around her in a full circle underlines that this is the one thing she can't run from.



It's the little things like that which add up to the bigger picture. Well, I'm a film guy, so I thought it was interesting at least.

[adriano_c]

royceclemens wrote...

The way the camera almost invasively moves around her in a full circle underlines that this is the one thing she can't run from.

That's pretty insightful.

[MHRazer]

royceclemens wrote...

I am heartened by the fact that while Talimancers apparently have NO SENSE OF HUMOR WHATSOEVER, Miranda and Jack being hot for each other has become our running gag.

I hate comparing threads and all, but... Clearly our code is superior. We talk of serious business while not letting it become "seriuz bizniss."

One of the cool things is that we can analyze and discuss the component parts of Jack's scenes instead od the whole, which I will attempt to do, if you'll indulge me. Check out 0:28-1:00 of the video gneissguy put up a couple of weeks back.



It isn't the conversation in and of itself, but the way it's shot. With the exception of the one cut to focus on her face at 0:51, they pulled off a sweet-as-all-hell 360 degree camera pan around Jack as she told her story. A lesser person, a cretinous person, would have turned this into three or four shots.

To me this really lends to how cornered Jack feels in this situation. This is her Break-Glass-In-Case-Of-Emergency story to ward off anyone she might think will get too close. How many people you think she told that story to? Parting with it means letting Shepard in, and she might as well let the whole world in. The way the camera almost invasively moves around her in a full circle underlines that this is the one thing she can't run from.

It's the little things like that which add up to the bigger picture. Well, I'm a film guy, so I thought it was interesting at least.

That's actually really cool, I never thought of it that way. To tell the truth, whenever I watch that scene all I can think is "Stop spinning!" but next time I should be able to appreciate it more 

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

I am heartened by the fact that while Talimancers apparently have NO SENSE OF HUMOR WHATSOEVER, Miranda and Jack being hot for each other has become our running gag.

I hate comparing threads and all, but... Clearly our code is superior. We talk of serious business while not letting it become "seriuz bizniss."

One of the cool things is that we can analyze and discuss the component parts of Jack's scenes instead od the whole, which I will attempt to do, if you'll indulge me. Check out 0:28-1:00 of the video gneissguy put up a couple of weeks back.



It isn't the conversation in and of itself, but the way it's shot. With the exception of the one cut to focus on her face at 0:51, they pulled off a sweet-as-all-hell 360 degree camera pan around Jack as she told her story. A lesser person, a cretinous person, would have turned this into three or four shots.

To me this really lends to how cornered Jack feels in this situation. This is her Break-Glass-In-Case-Of-Emergency story to ward off anyone she might think will get too close. How many people you think she told that story to? Parting with it means letting Shepard in, and she might as well let the whole world in. The way the camera almost invasively moves around her in a full circle underlines that this is the one thing she can't run from.

It's the little things like that which add up to the bigger picture. Well, I'm a film guy, so I thought it was interesting at least.

Circles like a shark, don't it? Poor little Jack's heart, bobbing in the water while Shepard bides his time waiting to roll his eyes back and take a bite...

Way back I did two years of film at college, and my chops are so ingrained and rusted-solid I never even noticed the camera tracking around her until you pointed it out. Seriously, I hate the way that I was only taught to notice pretentious bull**** like seven minute crane shots or seven minute continuous static camera or contrazooms, or my pet hate (it's like shearing teeth in half with a dremel tool to me) - screen-wipes... people that use them in the 21st century without irony need to be fed to the varren, that means you, George ****ing Lucas!

I digress. My point being, I never even noticed how nice the camerawork is in general in Jack's basement - thanks Uncle Royce. There's limited space, the walls, ceiling and floor intrude constantly, the lighting is not exactly friendly (being dull red or a single-point bare-lightbulb glare)... would have been nice to see some long shadows getting in on the act. It makes all the other 'relationship' locations (and the scenes within them) seem really restrained creatively-speaking.

Thinking about it, Miranda and Shepard's scenes go back and forth like a tennis match; the shots matching up (framing wise) a lot of the time. Tali's seem to have a lot of closeups (as does Thane's, but his has some inward tracking too, framing him and a Femme-Shep a couple of times.) and makes a lot of Shep and her being close (there's more touching in their scenes too, even prior to the big 'confession' scene that precedes the Omega 4 Hot Action Commander sequence. There's a tiny bit of touching in Miranda's one (I kept shrieking "Stop pawing me!") and none in Jack's... all very interesting, how these visual relationships are built up by interaction and camera work, and how much they suit the 'lovestyles' of the characters who are hot for Shepard.

And I feel even more stupid now, learning that my 'denial' quote is actually a Mark Twain, and I've been using it for years without knowing it!



Sorry Bobby, but it is Twain after all!

I could make these things all day...

Modifié par Mondo47, 31 mars 2010 - 11:53 .

[royceclemens]

You're welcome, Mondo, and thank you one and all.

And furthermore, Jack's is, if I recall correctly, the only romance that doesn't have the "tinkly-tink" love theme playing over any of the preliminary dialogue. This is a really sedate approach for a subplot and a character that desperately needs it. There are no bells, there are no whistles. Just the acting and the writing.

Compare that to this...



Painful to watch in more ways than one. I mean seriously, was there any point to turning this scene into a Michael-Bay-emulating-Jean-Luc-Godard salad of shots? That's just... amateur.

Modifié par royceclemens, 31 mars 2010 - 12:46 .

[Jackal904]

royceclemens wrote...

It isn't the conversation in and of itself, but the way it's shot. With the exception of the one cut to focus on her face at 0:51, they pulled off a sweet-as-all-hell 360 degree camera pan around Jack as she told her story. A lesser person, a cretinous person, would have turned this into three or four shots.

To me this really lends to how cornered Jack feels in this situation. This is her Break-Glass-In-Case-Of-Emergency story to ward off anyone she might think will get too close. How many people you think she told that story to? Parting with it means letting Shepard in, and she might as well let the whole world in. The way the camera almost invasively moves around her in a full circle underlines that this is the one thing she can't run from.

It's the little things like that which add up to the bigger picture. Well, I'm a film guy, so I thought it was interesting at least.

Yeah I thought the camera work on that scene was exceptional. The rotating camera at that part adds an additional sense of drama and significance to what Jack is saying. I really like how they rotate in when Jack was talking about Murtock's message, and how they zoom in perfectly right after that. The camera work during the entire scene is simply amazing. This scene with Jack is a great example of how BioWare goes above and beyond to make an incredible deep game.

[royceclemens]

You're right, the cut to that tight angle of Jack's eyes welling up WAS perfect. With added emotion because that's why she turned away form Shepard in the first place. Her last refuge in her bad girl persona. Turning away so the boy she likes wouldn't see her cry.

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

Compare that to this...



Painful to watch in more ways than one. I mean seriously, was there any point to turning this scene into a Michael-Bay-emulating-Jean-Luc-Godard salad of shots? That's just... amateur.

Never seen that before, since I play nice with LIs so much - it's another Horizon Moment!


Shep: You were right. We can't allow anything to jepardize the mission.

Tali: (hurt) What? So... everything you said was... and you're just casting it all aside because it's incovenient? Just... go. Leave me alone.

Shep: Erm... I was agreeing with you. You know, as in the opposite of disagreeing. Less than 30 seconds ago you said you'd understand if wanted to sleep with someone else, but I say I think you're right that I can't allow romantic feelings and risks to one of my crew's health endanger a mission to save the galaxy and I'm suddenly the biggest tool in engineering?

Gabby: Actually, Ken's the biggest tool down here.

Ken: I have the biggest tool, that's fer sure. If any of ye ladies are interested...

Gabby: As if. Jus' sayin'. As if.

Ken: Ach... thank ye so much...

Tali: (angrily) That's not the point and you know it, Shepard! Go away!

Shep: But -

Tali: GO!

Shep: (sighing) I thought women liked it when you agreed with them... at least my goldfish aren't this complicated...

[Barrendall]

royceclemens wrote...

I am heartened by the fact that while Talimancers apparently have NO SENSE OF HUMOR WHATSOEVER, Miranda and Jack being hot for each other has become our running gag.
I hate comparing threads and all, but... Clearly our code is superior. We talk of serious business while not letting it become "seriuz bizniss."
One of the cool things is that we can analyze and discuss the component parts of Jack's scenes instead od the whole, which I will attempt to do, if you'll indulge me. Check out 0:28-1:00 of the video gneissguy put up a couple of weeks back.



It isn't the conversation in and of itself, but the way it's shot. With the exception of the one cut to focus on her face at 0:51, they pulled off a sweet-as-all-hell 360 degree camera pan around Jack as she told her story. A lesser person, a cretinous person, would have turned this into three or four shots.
To me this really lends to how cornered Jack feels in this situation. This is her Break-Glass-In-Case-Of-Emergency story to ward off anyone she might think will get too close. How many people you think she told that story to? Parting with it means letting Shepard in, and she might as well let the whole world in. The way the camera almost invasively moves around her in a full circle underlines that this is the one thing she can't run from.
It's the little things like that which add up to the bigger picture. Well, I'm a film guy, so I thought it was interesting at least.

I kind of see this thread as the "Country Club"  of the forums where as Tali's is the "Public Course".  Sure they see much more traffic, whereas this thread has much more quality.  Are you guys accepting applications for membership?  

[adriano_c]

Have to disagree with that analogy.



The 'Tali thread' would be more of a disappointed mother's basement, wherein her son and friends gather asking one another inane questions, making trite comments, and filled with braying laughter. Meanwhile, the PGA might be showing on the television in some neglected corner. If that.

[Mkrgross]

Barrendall111 wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

I am heartened by the fact that while Talimancers apparently have NO SENSE OF HUMOR WHATSOEVER, Miranda and Jack being hot for each other has become our running gag.
I hate comparing threads and all, but... Clearly our code is superior. We talk of serious business while not letting it become "seriuz bizniss."
One of the cool things is that we can analyze and discuss the component parts of Jack's scenes instead od the whole, which I will attempt to do, if you'll indulge me. Check out 0:28-1:00 of the video gneissguy put up a couple of weeks back.



It isn't the conversation in and of itself, but the way it's shot. With the exception of the one cut to focus on her face at 0:51, they pulled off a sweet-as-all-hell 360 degree camera pan around Jack as she told her story. A lesser person, a cretinous person, would have turned this into three or four shots.
To me this really lends to how cornered Jack feels in this situation. This is her Break-Glass-In-Case-Of-Emergency story to ward off anyone she might think will get too close. How many people you think she told that story to? Parting with it means letting Shepard in, and she might as well let the whole world in. The way the camera almost invasively moves around her in a full circle underlines that this is the one thing she can't run from.
It's the little things like that which add up to the bigger picture. Well, I'm a film guy, so I thought it was interesting at least.

I kind of see this thread as the "Country Club"  of the forums where as Tali's is the "Public Course".  Sure they see much more traffic, whereas this thread has much more quality.  Are you guys accepting applications for membership?  

All are welcome, we respect most opinions here and we are quite civil. We may, from time to time, poke fun at other characters but we love most all the ME characters, we just love Jack more.

Man I step away from the forums for awhile and BAM! Bobby releases his Opus, (quite funny btw), and more Mondo fanfic, (always good). I need to lurk a little more often.

[Booglarize]

Whatever our personal opinions of the Tali thread may be, one thing is beyond doubt - the numbers there are staggering, and they dwarf just about everything else (and probably everything else combined as well). Assuming that the trends observed on these forums hold for the population at large (and beyond a few systematic biases, I see no reason why they wouldn't), I think there's something... interesting to be said about the more general human condition based on what we see here.

Modifié par Booglarize, 31 mars 2010 - 05:15 .

[adriano_c]

Booglarize wrote...

Assuming that the trends observed on these forums hold for the population at large (and beyond a few systematic biases, I see no reason why they wouldn't)....

I have no hard data to back me up, but...I think it's pretty obvious that people posting regularly on a game-dedicated forum would be the more "hardcore" of fans, especially two months after said game's release. This behaviour alone is already enough to separate these from the more casual players (the majority), along with their (the minority's) particular idiosyncrasies.

Being "hardcore", they're naturally more vociferous about their likes and/or dislikes, and it's not uncommon to see off-topic threads like the 'Tali' one spiral out of control (afterall, it's basically their own live chat room). I'm extremely curious as to just how many unique individuals are actually posting in there on a regular basis. It really just strikes me as a group of diehards thinking they're on AIM or some such.

Interestingly, I've also noticed that fans of that particular character are by far the most belligerent and intolerant on these boards. Just watching them hijack and derail threads they perceive as besmirching the "honour" of their favourite is embarrassing.

-edit.

Anyway, enough of that, I might incur their wrath upon this thread...

Modifié par adriano_c, 31 mars 2010 - 05:50 .

[Geth Knight]

The Rite of Passage audio thing.......................................dear god. That is the funniest thing I've heard ever. Love the ending.

[Epantiras]

Mondo47 wrote...
Shep: (sighing) I thought women liked it when you agreed with them... at least my goldfish aren't this complicated...

I vote this for "Quote of the Day"

[gneissguy2003]

Kind of nice to see a video I posted being used for in-depth analysis. Thanks "Uncle" Royce. That was probably just about the last thing I would have thought someone would get out of it.

If by chance there are any other scenes, with or without Jack, that people are interested in possibly having recorded and posted up on the "Tube" for checking out, let me know. I'm more than happy to fire up Fraps and make some recordings.

[Mondo47]

Epantiras wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...
Shep: (sighing) I thought women liked it when you agreed with them... at least my goldfish aren't this complicated...

I vote this for "Quote of the Day"

I'm all for complex female characters, and I know that the script needs to bend in the wind as it were, as we (the players) are selecting the lines that go into the blanks, but damn... some consistancy would be nice. I mean, not pissed off about being usurped by another woman, but pissed off about someone agreeing with her appraisal of the relationship's chances? Sorry, that is not the Tali we spent the last fourteen hours romancing; because woman or not, Tali just isn't that complicated. She's too nice to flip-flop like that (she just told you a beat ago she doesn't mint you screwing around on her, for Chrissakes). Miranda, sure. Not Tali. That's a line there just to slam the door on further conversation. A little more nuance would be nice.

[gneissguy2003]

Mondo47 wrote...

Epantiras wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...
Shep: (sighing) I thought women liked it when you agreed with them... at least my goldfish aren't this complicated...

I vote this for "Quote of the Day"

I'm all for complex female characters, and I know that the script needs to bend in the wind as it were, as we (the players) are selecting the lines that go into the blanks, but damn... some consistancy would be nice. I mean, not pissed off about being usurped by another woman, but pissed off about someone agreeing with her appraisal of the relationship's chances? Sorry, that is not the Tali we spent the last fourteen hours romancing; because woman or not, Tali just isn't that complicated. She's too nice to flip-flop like that (she just told you a beat ago she doesn't mint you screwing around on her, for Chrissakes). Miranda, sure. Not Tali. That's a line there just to slam the door on further conversation. A little more nuance would be nice.

It might sound odd, but ever since I first completed ME1 I've had this feeling that Tali has a somewhat subdued side of herself that is rather malicious, self-serving, and indecisive. For instance, I recall the first time I ever completed ME1 I had taken Liara and Tali with me to beat Saren. When it came time to make the decision on whether or not to save the Council, Liara was emphasizing the big picture while Tali was basically telling me "Screw the Council. What have they ever done for you?" Needless to say, after having played for a number of hours and having created this idea of her being a young, sweet, somewhat naive girl I was a bit taken aback. Where did this hostility come from?

Skip forward to ME2. From the moment we meet her she has a vendetta against Cerberus and openly offers to blow them all to hell. Now, I can understand where those feelings come from even though I haven't read the book concerning the conflict between the Quarians and Cerberus. However, what really threw me for a loop was her loyalty mission, more specifically the conversation you can have with her after she scans a terminal and truly begins to discover what her father was doing. While talking with her you either favor regaining the Quarian homeworld or colonizing a new one... but no matter which one you choose, Tali argues against you. She plays devil's advocate in the worst of ways, and it leaves me wondering what her true stance is on the whole issue.

And then there's the whole issue of whether or not to tell the Admirals about her father's experiments. This part urks me to no end because you have to understand that I'm the type of person that places honesty extremely high on my moral ladder. I can understand her not wanting her father to be hated by others, but she herself understands the implications of what he was doing and that it was inexcusable. When you compare her situation with that of Jacob, it's like night and day (in regard to their reactions). Personally, I prefer Jacobs reaction. I guess I've just never really seen Tali as a very strong person because I keep finding flaws in her personality that make me second guess her motives.

Sorry for the rant.

Modifié par gneissguy2003, 31 mars 2010 - 07:24 .

[Booglarize]

 

Mondo47 wrote...

That's a line there just to slam the door on further conversation. A little more nuance would be nice.

I agree; I think a slightly less erratic response would've been more appropriate - showing some obvious disappointment on her part, sure, but not the complete 180 she does in that clip. Though I guess in the scheme of things, it's not that significant - after all, they may have bet (correctly. it would seem) that very few people would actually select certain conversation options during their own playthroughs and thus were a bit lax with those scenes, in terms of the dialogue as well as the cinematic presentation.

Still, would've been better if they kept these things in mind and applied the same level of care even during the less 'important' scenes - it's little things like this that really add to the level of immersion in a game. 

Modifié par Booglarize, 31 mars 2010 - 07:24 .