20813 réponses à ce sujet

[KendallX23]

Pauravi wrote...

Tali fan here, just coming in to support one of my more favorite characters.

Had to respond to this though

Neccrid wrote...

It just shows that Jack fans compared to whoever else fans are of a different class. We don't look at whats only presented on the outside but we like to delve deep into characters and look to what makes them tick.

Jack is BioWare's type of character. She is that character that the player needs to chip away at to fully understand. And it shows that either players don't care about engaging with characters who they don't deem attractive or they simply don't know what makes a good character.

Oh, come on now, don't get all elitist.

The fact that Jack is your favorite character doesn't make you deeper than anyone else, it simply means you have different tastes.  Many (probably most) of Bioware's characters are multi-layered affairs, even the ones you don't like.  Honestly, getting a read on Jack isn't that difficult from the very start.  The specifics are waiting to be uncovered, certainly, but people who put up tough-guy shields like she does are usually hiding from a  damaged childhood.  Don't get me wrong, I love Jack as a character, but she isn't a surprise, nor does she require much "chipping away at" to understand.  And insinuating that people who like other characters are either shallow or don't know what makes a good character?  That's just rude.

I'm primarily a fan of Tali, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate Jack as a character.  Jack is my 2nd favorite; I find it rewarding to crack her shell, and
her romance is surprisingly sweet and very emotional.  I myself don't
find the shaved head OR the ink attractive in the least, but she is
beautiful despite them and it is a part of her character.  Removing them
would be ridiculous.  As much as I like her, though, I identify more with Tali, and she has a personality that I find more endearing.  And you know what?  Sometimes people might not like Jack's personality at all and STILL appreciate her as a character.

Stick to discussing Jack's many merits, not why you think you're better than other people because you like Jack and because you're so non-mainstream.

Peace.

        well agreed sort of..jack isn't the only char well written..but tali....my God..how many times do we have to save her...i am proposing we start a thread to guess how many times we will save her in ME3...
         about ME3...i do hope we get more Jack and Miranda..just love the interaction between them...

[royceclemens]

Pauravi wrote...

Stick to discussing Jack's many merits, not why you think you're better than other people because you like Jack and because you're so non-mainstream.

Peace.

No.  No, I don't think we will.

We aren't mainstream.  It's a Talimancer's world and we just toil in it.  In a forum where we can't go so much as three feet without tripping over some munch who mentions how much they hate Jack, how her tattoos are ugly and how they consider Jacob's ship upgrade completely optional we, the raggediest and meanest of us come to seek shelter and solace.  We discuss camerawork, backstory, what she says as opposed to what she means, what the tattoos might mean, how good the renderwork on her skin is and whatever else might come into our heads about this character.

We do not, however, post when nothing is going on about the very fact that nothing is going on.  When we go to the bathroom or go to bed, we do so, and keep it to ourselves instead of posting about it to an echo chamber of like-minded souls.  We do not post suggestive fan-art, we do not write deathly serious fanfiction that cannot be confined to a forum post. 

And we do not, under any circumstances, go into another character's thread and tell them how their business should be conducted as though we were possessed by divine right.

You are in the majority.  We are a very small, very passionate minority.  But being in the minority comes with certain privileges.  It goes part and parcel with all the sweating we have to do.  Fans of Miss Zorah are unaware of how much all their efforts are a mere formality at this point, as Tali will be in ME3 come hell or high water.  We're the ones teetering near the edge of uncertainty in the face of blind, shallow, petty hatred .   

So we will say whatever the hell we want about whoever the hell we want.  If this offends your sensibilities then I'd strongly recommend not coming back here. 

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

Pauravi wrote...

Stick to discussing Jack's many merits, not why you think you're better than other people because you like Jack and because you're so non-mainstream.

Peace.

No.  No, I don't think we will.

We aren't mainstream.  It's a Talimancer's world and we just toil in it.  In a forum where we can't go so much as three feet without tripping over some munch who mentions how much they hate Jack, how her tattoos are ugly and how they consider Jacob's ship upgrade completely optional we, the raggediest and meanest of us come to seek shelter and solace.  We discuss camerawork, backstory, what she says as opposed to what she means, what the tattoos might mean, how good the renderwork on her skin is and whatever else might come into our heads about this character.

We do not, however, post when nothing is going on about the very fact that nothing is going on.  When we go to the bathroom or go to bed, we do so, and keep it to ourselves instead of posting about it to an echo chamber of like-minded souls.  We do not post suggestive fan-art, we do not write deathly serious fanfiction that cannot be confined to a forum post. 

And we do not, under any circumstances, go into another character's thread and tell them how their business should be conducted as though we were possessed by divine right.

You are in the majority.  We are a very small, very passionate minority.  But being in the minority comes with certain privileges.  It goes part and parcel with all the sweating we have to do.  Fans of Miss Zorah are unaware of how much all their efforts are a mere formality at this point, as Tali will be in ME3 come hell or high water.  We're the ones teetering near the edge of uncertainty in the face of blind, shallow, petty hatred .   

So we will say whatever the hell we want about whoever the hell we want.  If this offends your sensibilities then I'd strongly recommend not coming back here. 

Whoa, Uncle Royce, light up several smokes at once and start huffing... you're showing a lot of teeth today! It's not my job to undermine, because what you say is pretty dead on, but take a little of the crocodile outta it. We're not better or smarter than everyone else because we sit in here like savages around a carcass on a fire, snarling if someone gets a bit too close to our zebra-leg. I once dropped by the Miranda thread just to say I tried but I just couldn't make myself like her as any more than a coleague and I got the same response Godzilla gets when he goes for a stroll by Tokyo: the little rockets - they sting! And much like Godzilla, I laughed it off as a pitiful attempt to school me and went on my way. We don't do that.

It's all horses for courses. There's no need to drop the hammer. We can leave that to the Taliban and Branch Miridians (heh... you see what I did there). We're not militant fans here. We don't man the barricades with flamethrowers because someone disagrees with us; in fact, we should welcome the trolls and disingenuous assertions of the serious fanbois because ****, they make us look like ****ing electronic genii. This though wasn't either. Maybe it came off harsher in text than speech - you know how ambiguous intention is in the typed word.

I'm pretty sure we're not better or smarter than everyone else. The content of our thread however does tend to be a lot smarter than other fan threads. We discuss stuff, go off on tangents and post videos of RuPaul and Elton John, and then meander back. We don't have a pulpit and benches in here - we have lazyboys and a bar. We don't wage TGTW over what an alien might or might not look like because hey, if we liked the girl with the bucket on her head she could be a Kephri under there and we wouldn't care. And we certainly don't say Lime is better than Strawberry.

We are in the trenches for our girl, however. She's got more depth than most women in the game (and it works for me that she's unconventional and not easy to gauge in comparison to every other female love interest int the game), and sure, it feels sometimes like we're that little commando guy from C&C; fighting an insurmountable foe with intellectual plastique and a Barrett made of theory and loaded with .50 HEAP words. We fumble through the fog of war and for what? To probably have the object of our affections benched in ME3 because the majority of the audience doesn't like a girl with more balls than them (come on, it's true). There's no need for us to become the foe.

So I'll end where I came in - let's share a few more happy moments with the Tali-fans (or whoever fans) that pass by and are civil and promote that discussion-thing we thrive on here. The others? Weeeeeell...

Modifié par Mondo47, 03 avril 2010 - 01:24 .

[Chaos-fusion]

Personally, I couldn't care less who people like. You like what you like, and that's fine. It doesn't matter one whit, until they start getting fanatical. I love all the characters, but I can still understand they're nothing more than audio files and lines of code.

I have screenshots of several of them dieing on the suicide run in fact. Both Jack getting err, lazered, and Tali being incinerated are pretty funny to me (granted, that must seem wierd to some people). People who get sensitive about those things though, those are the only fans that wind me up, but I still can't like them. I do like the ocasional jab at Talimancers though, but that's purely the stereotype, and if you can't laugh at whatever group you can be stereotyped as, then that's a shame.

/pointless musing

But, in all honesty, I'm too scared to post my Tali being incinerated screenshot in her fan thread. Moreso than any other characters fan threads anyway. I know it's not something most people would even appreciate, but still. *Shrug*

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 03 avril 2010 - 01:29 .

[adriano_c]

Well, two residents seem to have it covered, saving me the hassle of coming up with a stinging retort.

However, I can't resist taking the bait with this morcel...

Pauravi wrote...

And insinuating that people who like characters are either shallow or don't know what makes a good character? That's just rude.

Are you for real with this indignation? Who are you fooling? Lol...

Now, granted, the original poster did seem to have some sort of self-aggrandizing intent with his comments, but I can't even say he was off-base.

The vast quantity of posts contained within the character thread in question are the very definition of shallow, lazy and mindless. Meaningful, engaging or constructive conversation? Scarce...at best. Massive chain-quotes, disturbing fan art splattered about indiscriminately, announcements of sleep-related activities? You can't browse two posts without being accosted by these.

So really, it all boils down to whether or not you want to "call a spade a spade", as it were.

-edit. Just had a look in that thread. The last two pages are, in their entirety, made up of fan art with not so clever captions.

Modifié par adriano_c, 03 avril 2010 - 01:35 .

[Weiser_Cain]

weird...

Modifié par Weiser_Cain, 03 avril 2010 - 01:39 .

[Weiser_Cain]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

You guys do realize we're on the same board?
Say what you will about the Tali thread, at least it's about Tali.

[badrobot2]

There's no need to get so defensive, can't we just get along?

Modifié par badrobot2, 03 avril 2010 - 02:11 .

[Jackal904]

[quote]Pauravi wrote...

[stuff]

Peace.
[/quote]

We're not saying every non-Jack fan is shallow, but based on everyone in these forums, it's usually true. Is it a generalization? Of course, but it's often correct. Clearly you are not one of those people since you can make a post about something other than going to the bathroom or leaving for work. It's rare to find a passionate Tali fan who also finds Jack as one of their favorite characters. When talking about Jack, usually anyone with a "Tali for ME3" sig makes a post a long the lines of, "Ew Jack is gross. Tali is the best!" Not all Talimancers are like that but most are, therefore we make these generalizations.

In this thread we discuss much more than what we ate for breakfast and when we're going to bed. We often have long, in-depth, posts related to something specific about Jack. Frist time posters in this thread are often intimidated by how verbous and analytic we are, and they feel they won't be able to contribute much. Then we have to tell them it's ok and that every post doesn't have to be an analysis essay. There is more substance in the 130ish pages of this thread than the 5000+ pages in the Tali thread.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but what I'm saying is simply fact. And you can't blame us for getting a little defensive when so many people go around on these forums saying stuff like, "Jack is ugly, I wish I could leave her on the Purgatory to die. Why wouldn't you prefer Miranda? Look at dat ass!" And then there's the Talimancers who remind us every 5 seconds how amazing Tali is, and how we're silly to not literally be in love with her.

[quote]Weiser_Cain wrote...

You guys do realize we're on the same board?
Say what you will about the Tali thread, at least it's about Tali.[/quote]
[/quote]

Obvious troll attempt since everyone knows the Tali fan thread is an offtopic chat room. There are pages in that thread that don't mention Tali once.

Modifié par Jackal904, 03 avril 2010 - 02:23 .

[Neccrid]

Pauravi wrote...

Tali fan here, just coming in to support one of my more favorite characters.

Had to respond to this though

Neccrid wrote...

It just shows that Jack fans compared to whoever else fans are of a different class. We don't look at whats only presented on the outside but we like to delve deep into characters and look to what makes them tick.

Jack is BioWare's type of character. She is that character that the player needs to chip away at to fully understand. And it shows that either players don't care about engaging with characters who they don't deem attractive or they simply don't know what makes a good character.

Oh, come on now, don't get all elitist.

The fact that Jack is your favorite character doesn't make you deeper than anyone else, it simply means you have different tastes.  Many (probably most) of Bioware's characters are multi-layered affairs, even the ones you don't like.  Honestly, getting a read on Jack isn't that difficult from the very start.  The specifics are waiting to be uncovered, certainly, but people who put up tough-guy shields like she does are usually hiding from a  damaged childhood.  Don't get me wrong, I love Jack as a character, but she isn't a surprise, nor does she require much "chipping away at" to understand.  And insinuating that people who like other characters are either shallow or don't know what makes a good character?  That's just rude.

I'm primarily a fan of Tali, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate Jack as a character.  Jack is my 2nd favorite; I find it rewarding to crack her shell, and
her romance is surprisingly sweet and very emotional.  I myself don't
find the shaved head OR the ink attractive in the least, but she is
beautiful despite them and it is a part of her character.  Removing them
would be ridiculous.  As much as I like her, though, I identify more with Tali, and she has a personality that I find more endearing.  And you know what?  Sometimes people might not like Jack's personality at all and STILL appreciate her as a character.

Stick to discussing Jack's many merits, not why you think you're better than other people because you like Jack and because you're so non-mainstream.

Peace.

First of all I never said once  'I'm better than anyone else'.  I simply stated that we are DIFFERENT fans.  Not BETTER fans. If the word 'class' threw you into this rave I apologize but in no shape or form did I mean class as in 'low class , Middle class'.  I simply meant as a group of people with different feelings.  Secondly I was kind of hinting at the fact that because of the smaller fan base towards Jack as compared to Tali or Garrus she isn't able to shine the way we see her. And lastly, Don't even try and tell me you knew the person Jack was from the very getgo.  Say whatever you want but that's BULL and we all know it. 

And don't try to dictate what I or anyone else discusses in this thread. Notice how I emphasis try.

That's the end of this 'Elitists' rant.  Let me go back to my golf course and start drinking champagne with my Blond haired supermodel wife and go take laps around the lower areas of town in my red sports car.

Modifié par Neccrid, 03 avril 2010 - 02:34 .

[Mkrgross]

Generalizations are generally true.

[iNixiRir]

Jackal904 wrote...
Obvious troll attempt since everyone knows the Tali fan thread is an offtopic chat room. There are pages in that thread that don't mention Tali once.

Every single fanthread on this board has had their share of offtopic crap. Yes, even this one. As a matter of fact, we're doing it know  .

Modifié par iNixiRir, 03 avril 2010 - 02:25 .

[Chaos-fusion]

royceclemens wrote...

We're the ones teetering near the edge of uncertainty in the face of blind, shallow, petty hatred .  

Somewhat ironically, in my 'get everyone killed' playthrough, guess whose was the first to cop it? Not that I see that as some ill omen, or anything, it just striked me as cruelly amusing.

iNixiRir wrote...

Every single fanthread on this board has
had their share of offtopic crap. Yes, even this one. As a matter of
fact, we're doing it know [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Indeed! So, I bring more screenshots. I hope nobody minds. I know we've had alot (from.. was it adriano_c? Please correct me if I'm wrong.), so I hope I'm not adding any repeats here. And I'm not addinf the dead Jack one I mentioned. Don't know if anyone would care for that, hehe. :happy: Please forgive my ugly-bug sheperd.

On Pragia:




Meeting the Biotic God:



Misc. from the Normandy:






After finding Legion aboard the reaper:

"I'm not carrying s**t" She says:



But, she did anyway:

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 03 avril 2010 - 02:44 .

[adriano_c]

Lol, what's that green thing across his left eye?

[Chaos-fusion]

It's a visor. I think Eddie Lang, the C-Sec guy in the first game used it. Had to do some modding to make it an option.

Personally, I prefer the floating head/torso with a beret, but it makes a poor screenshot.

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 03 avril 2010 - 03:03 .

[adriano_c]

Ah, I still haven't gotten around to trying any mods myself.



Regardless, some nice captures. I like the last one, myself.

[Jackal904]

iNixiRir wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...
Obvious troll attempt since everyone knows the Tali fan thread is an offtopic chat room. There are pages in that thread that don't mention Tali once.

Every single fanthread on this board has had their share of offtopic crap. Yes, even this one. As a matter of fact, we're doing it know  .

There's a difference between occasionally going offtopic and treating a thread like a chat room.

Anyway. Really nice screenshots Chaos .

[Pacifien]

I think I'll do a quick pass through this thread to show my love for Jack. She's foul-mouthed, she's a bit unhinged, and my Shepard and her will probably never be best friends. But she is a lively character that brings a new perspective into the world of Mass Effect. The more varied that world, the better!

[Epantiras]

Welcome Pacifien ;-)

[Jackal904]

Pacifien wrote...

I think I'll do a quick pass through this thread to show my love for Jack. She's foul-mouthed, she's a bit unhinged, and my Shepard and her will probably never be best friends. But she is a lively character that brings a new perspective into the world of Mass Effect. The more varied that world, the better!

Thanks for the support . It's nice to see someone who isn't a die hard fan of Jack that can still appreciate the uniqueness that she brings to Mass Effect.

[Azint]

I remember my first post on this thread. It went something along the lines of "Hi guys! I really liked Jack and- eep big discussion, sorry for interrupting."

Anyways, it's become the general rule of that thread that we discuss whatever we want and the amount of usuals posting really overwhelm people who don't frequent it. But you guys are not as alone as you think you are, many people do like Jack, but each thread has its own community and it does feel awkward for many to post in threads they do not frequent. I've posted here several times, added my own contributions to the topic and I do see why it's just as intimidating here as it is on the Tali thread. You guys have a small but very strong community, the few that are here are all familiar and while you are welcoming, there is an added second-party factor for new people.

And in terms of reputation on the boards, you guys have a rep for being very judgemental about everyone else and you view yourselves as better. Of course that is not true for all of you but that is the impression others are getting, and it is wrong to stereotype like that, for any reason and for any group. You can't blame us for being defensive either when people state that we are mindlessly posting, there have been lots of big discussions and we do meander off-topic, but of course a 5000+ page thread will not always be on-topic, and the sheer size accentuates that fact.

I'm not here to advocate the Tali thread, I'm here because I think we all really should try to bond. It looks bad for any fandom when the fans are arguing over subjective issues like who is a better or more likeable character, and I'm not saying that you guys do. We really should try to do more than just get along, if we all the fans just band together, I think we all will be much better off for it.

[Barrendall]

Jackal904 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

I think I'll do a quick pass through this thread to show my love for Jack. She's foul-mouthed, she's a bit unhinged, and my Shepard and her will probably never be best friends. But she is a lively character that brings a new perspective into the world of Mass Effect. The more varied that world, the better!

Thanks for the support . It's nice to see someone who isn't a die hard fan of Jack that can still appreciate the uniqueness that she brings to Mass Effect.

^^This....Welcome Pacifien to our humble little hall.  I don't speak for everyone (or anyone really:).  Hell there are times I stop listening to myself)  but  we would welcome any input from your perspective on Jack and what role you see her in the ME universe.

[Pacifien]

Jackal904 wrote...
Thanks for the support . It's nice to see someone who isn't a die hard fan of Jack that can still appreciate the uniqueness that she brings to Mass Effect.

Honestly, I thought I would hate Subject Zero based on the promotion trailers, but all that hate melted away in two instances. First, hearing Grunt get so enthusiastic about Jack's prison escape is comedy gold. Second, Jack's instant dislike of Cerberus made a good first impression.

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but the Illusive Man sending Shepard a dossier on a person who the Illusive Man knew had been a test subject of Cerberus seems to me like him cashing in on his investment. He wanted to build the most powerful biotic soldier, and the time had come to put her in the field. I won't buy any excuse that he wouldn't have approved of what the Pragia cell did to Subject Zero, because Miranda has said that the Illusive Man gives each cell a particular goal and then leaves them to achieve it how they wish. He might have done the experiments in a... more humane manner, but he chose to put someone else in charge to get it done, they got it done, and he used what they gave him.

[Barrendall]

We kind of got derailed there for a bit...but before we were discussing Jack's ink. There is a picture of what looks like a compass you would put on a pirate's map or a star with what looks like skeletal fingers around it....umm just above her...busom? Anyway it always sort of made me think.

Edit: Sorry Pacifien you posted while I was typing, your post is way more interesting for discussion than mine is.

Modifié par Barrendall111, 03 avril 2010 - 06:17 .

[adriano_c]

Pacifien wrote...

Honestly, I thought I would hate Subject Zero based on the promotion trailers, but all that hate melted away in two instances.

I've always been curious about this, particularly as I've seen it repeated ad nauseam across the forums.

As someone who didn't follow the game's development at all, let alone the character's promo vids (until after I had actually completed a playthrough), can I ask what was so bad about the Subject Zero one? I honestly don't see anything there that could legitimately cause so many people to revile a character...