20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Ultai]

Yea, lot of fang bearing going on...as Jack would say, "I like it, we still recruiting?" But only in small doses.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Hello everyone. Just dropping by to support one of my favorite characters.

adriano_c wrote...


I've always been curious about this, particularly as I've seen it repeated ad nauseam across the forums.

As someone who didn't follow the game's development at all, let alone the character's promo vids (until after I had actually completed a playthrough), can I ask what was so bad about the Subject Zero one? I honestly don't see anything there that could legitimately cause so many people to revile a character...

I believe the title of the video was The Psychopath, which of course is kind of off-puttting. The video also made her look cocky and foul-mouthed to some people.

Modifié par drunken pyromaniac, 03 avril 2010 - 06:24 .

[Barrendall]

adriano_c wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Honestly, I thought I would hate Subject Zero based on the promotion trailers, but all that hate melted away in two instances.

I've always been curious about this, particularly as I've seen it repeated ad nauseam across the forums.

As someone who didn't follow the game's development at all, let alone the character's promo vids (until after I had actually completed a playthrough), can I ask what was so bad about the Subject Zero one? I honestly don't see anything there that could legitimately cause so many people to revile a character...

I would say it was misleading.  They marketed her as a psyochopath which she clearly isn't.  Her fashion and style didn't help either.  It was the perfect package of craziness on the bookcover.  For the few of us who looked at the bookcover and decided to read anyway, it ended up being the perfect surprise.  Well for the few of us that liked her anyway.

[adriano_c]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

I believe the title of the video was The Psychopath, which of course is kind of off-puttting. The video also made her look cocky and foul-mouthed to some people.

I don't know...to hate a character because it had the appearance of being "cocky" and "foul-mouthed" in a two minute trailer? I mean, I just don't get that. This is Bioware, afterall, a company with a track record of churning out complex, memorable and landmark characters. You'd think people would have some degree of foresight, rather than being so outrightly dismissive...or shallow, for that matter.

Barrendall111 wrote...

I would say it was misleading.  They marketed her as a psyochopath which she clearly isn't.  Her fashion and style didn't help either.  It was the perfect package of craziness on the bookcover.  For the few of us who looked at the bookcover and decided to read anyway, it ended up being the perfect surprise.  Well for the few of us that liked her anyway.

As for the mislabeling her as psychopath (when she doesn't rightly fit that qualification) explaining the hatred, I can't sign off on this as appropriate reasoning either. I'd wager the majority of the people even thinking to use this as an excuse aren't even aware of what being a psychopath actually entails, behavior-wise.

So, thus far, I can only gather that people "hate(d)" her because of the visual design shown off in the reveal trailer.

-edit for weird text wrapping.

Modifié par adriano_c, 03 avril 2010 - 06:44 .

[Pacifien]

adriano_c wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Honestly, I thought I would hate Subject Zero based on the promotion trailers, but all that hate melted away in two instances.

I've always been curious about this, particularly as I've seen it repeated ad nauseam across the forums.

As someone who didn't follow the game's development at all, let alone the character's promo vids (until after I had actually completed a playthrough), can I ask what was so bad about the Subject Zero one? I honestly don't see anything there that could legitimately cause so many people to revile a character...

In my case, it's because it felt like they were trying to make the atmosphere of Mass Effect EXTREEEEME! Like, look at Shepard now: he's badass, he hangs out with badasses, they go do badass things together. My own Shepard was a more sedate Paragon -- I didn't see how I was going to fit with what the promos were showing me.

[Chaos-fusion]

Nice to see so many who aren't regulars here. Hi all. :happy:

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

adriano_c wrote...


I've always been curious about this, particularly as I've seen it repeated ad nauseam across the forums.

As someone who didn't follow the game's development at all, let alone the character's promo vids (until after I had actually completed a playthrough), can I ask what was so bad about the Subject Zero one? I honestly don't see anything there that could legitimately cause so many people to revile a character...

I believe the title of the video was The Psychopath, which of course is kind of off-puttting. The video also made her look cocky and foul-mouthed to some people.

The language was one to me. I don't mind swearing, but within reason. 

Pacifien wrote...

In my case, it's because it felt like
they were trying to make the atmosphere of Mass Effect EXTREEEEME!

And then there was this too. Having disliked what I'd seen on the direction ME2 was taking at that
point, it just seemed to me that they were trying too hard with this new
girl.

[Pacifien]

Barrendall111 wrote...
We kind of got derailed there for a bit...but before we were discussing Jack's ink.<snip>

I'm curious about the ones Jack says are for things she's lost and are nobody's business. I wonder if you romance her if she eventually relents to tell Shepard.

[adriano_c]

Pacifien wrote...

In my case, it's because it felt like they were trying to make the atmosphere of Mass Effect EXTREEEEME! Like, look at Shepard now: he's badass, he hangs out with badasses, they go do badass things together. My own Shepard was a more sedate Paragon -- I didn't see how I was going to fit with what the promos were showing me.

This I can understand.

[drunken pyromaniac]

adriano_c wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

I believe the title of the video was The Psychopath, which of course is kind of off-puttting. The video also made her look cocky and foul-mouthed to some people.

I don't know...to hate a character because it had the appearance of being "cocky" and "foul-mouthed" in a two minute trailer? I mean, I just don't get that. This is Bioware, afterall, a company with a track record of churning out complex, memorable and landmark characters. You'd think people would have some degree of foresight, rather than being so outrightly dismissive...or shallow, for that matter.

Yeah, it's a Bioware game but no one has ever accused online forums of being erudite and clear-thinking.
I was a little concerned at first but I watched it another time and I decided to give her a chance. As I thought about it I realized exactly what you're saying. Bioware very rarely disappoints with their character's complexity.

[Jackal904]

Azint wrote...

We really should try to do more than just get along, if we all the fans just band together, I think we all will be much better off for it.

Not to sound childish, but they started. I never ripped on any other character until I kept seeing people post about how they think Jack is a dumb ugly **** and how they kill her off every playthrough and how they wish they could leave her on the Purgatory to die.

Mondo posted a motivational in the motivational thread about Jack's eye and some guy quoted it and was like, "Actually no, just no..." And for every one person saying something good about Jack, there are two who rip on her. And I never rip on other characters outside of this thread for no reason. I only ever do it when someone makes some deuchbag comment about Jack, then I rip on whatever character they like.

[Barrendall]

Pacifien wrote...

Barrendall111 wrote...
We kind of got derailed there for a bit...but before we were discussing Jack's ink.

I'm curious about the ones Jack says are for things she's lost and are nobody's business. I wonder if you romance her if she eventually relents to tell Shepard.

I've yet to see anymore conversation about her ink further in the romance and I've romanced her a bunch of times.  Maybe in ME3 she'll divulge some more info about it.  It seems to be one of those private things or a topic that just bores her to death.  All speculation on my part of course.

[Jackal904]

Barrendall111 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Barrendall111 wrote...
We kind of got derailed there for a bit...but before we were discussing Jack's ink.

I'm curious about the ones Jack says are for things she's lost and are nobody's business. I wonder if you romance her if she eventually relents to tell Shepard.

I've yet to see anymore conversation about her ink further in the romance and I've romanced her a bunch of times.  Maybe in ME3 she'll divulge some more info about it.  It seems to be one of those private things or a topic that just bores her to death.  All speculation on my part of course.

That would be an interesting conversation in ME3. There's so much about Jack we don't know, there's a lot they can do with her in ME3.

[NovenseiWarden]

royceclemens wrote...

Pauravi wrote...

Stick to discussing Jack's many merits, not why you think you're better than other people because you like Jack and because you're so non-mainstream.

Peace.

No.  No, I don't think we will.

We aren't mainstream.  It's a Talimancer's world and we just toil in it.  In a forum where we can't go so much as three feet without tripping over some munch who mentions how much they hate Jack, how her tattoos are ugly and how they consider Jacob's ship upgrade completely optional we, the raggediest and meanest of us come to seek shelter and solace.  We discuss camerawork, backstory, what she says as opposed to what she means, what the tattoos might mean, how good the renderwork on her skin is and whatever else might come into our heads about this character.

We do not, however, post when nothing is going on about the very fact that nothing is going on.  When we go to the bathroom or go to bed, we do so, and keep it to ourselves instead of posting about it to an echo chamber of like-minded souls.  We do not post suggestive fan-art, we do not write deathly serious fanfiction that cannot be confined to a forum post. 

And we do not, under any circumstances, go into another character's thread and tell them how their business should be conducted as though we were possessed by divine right.

You are in the majority.  We are a very small, very passionate minority.  But being in the minority comes with certain privileges.  It goes part and parcel with all the sweating we have to do.  Fans of Miss Zorah are unaware of how much all their efforts are a mere formality at this point, as Tali will be in ME3 come hell or high water.  We're the ones teetering near the edge of uncertainty in the face of blind, shallow, petty hatred .   

So we will say whatever the hell we want about whoever the hell we want.  If this offends your sensibilities then I'd strongly recommend not coming back here. 

I have to agree. Us Jack fans have much more at stake. And if some Jack fans consider themselves superior, maybe it's because we had to chip away at her armor to get one scene of true emotion. In my opinion, Tali nearly threw herself at Shepard. When you talk to Kelly, she says Tali wants to be "more than friends", and when she started talking about merging suit atmospheres it was too much for me. It was Liara all over again but without the good looks. I don't think I even have to go into Miranda...  Anyway, Jack fans only got a glimpse of the true Jack, and if we want more than a two minute cameo of her in ME3, it's going to take a lot of effort on our part. So forgive the passion of the minority, Pauravi.

[Urdaniel]

My own contribution to the motivational images that have been posted recently.  I apologize in advance for my poor image manipulation skills as well as the clumsy paraphrase of a Thane quote.

[Jackal904]

NovenseiWarden wrote...

I have to agree. Us Jack fans have much more at stake. And if some Jack fans consider themselves superior, maybe it's because we had to chip away at her armor to get one scene of true emotion.

It has to do with the fact that we don't treat our fan thread like a chat room and we actually have intelligent conversations here. And we don't rip on other characters in other threads for no reason.

Btw. I found this really funny Tali pic that someone posted in the Tali fan thread to ******'m off . I thought I'd share it with you guys. http://i39.tinypic.com/mrwnlh.jpg

Modifié par Jackal904, 03 avril 2010 - 07:23 .

[Neccrid]

It seems like alot of people were put off by her reveal trailer and that other CGI trailer. I was intrigued by her from the getgo.

[Neccrid]

NovenseiWarden wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

Pauravi wrote...

Stick to discussing Jack's many merits, not why you think you're better than other people because you like Jack and because you're so non-mainstream.

Peace.

No.  No, I don't think we will.

We aren't mainstream.  It's a Talimancer's world and we just toil in it.  In a forum where we can't go so much as three feet without tripping over some munch who mentions how much they hate Jack, how her tattoos are ugly and how they consider Jacob's ship upgrade completely optional we, the raggediest and meanest of us come to seek shelter and solace.  We discuss camerawork, backstory, what she says as opposed to what she means, what the tattoos might mean, how good the renderwork on her skin is and whatever else might come into our heads about this character.

We do not, however, post when nothing is going on about the very fact that nothing is going on.  When we go to the bathroom or go to bed, we do so, and keep it to ourselves instead of posting about it to an echo chamber of like-minded souls.  We do not post suggestive fan-art, we do not write deathly serious fanfiction that cannot be confined to a forum post. 

And we do not, under any circumstances, go into another character's thread and tell them how their business should be conducted as though we were possessed by divine right.

You are in the majority.  We are a very small, very passionate minority.  But being in the minority comes with certain privileges.  It goes part and parcel with all the sweating we have to do.  Fans of Miss Zorah are unaware of how much all their efforts are a mere formality at this point, as Tali will be in ME3 come hell or high water.  We're the ones teetering near the edge of uncertainty in the face of blind, shallow, petty hatred .   

So we will say whatever the hell we want about whoever the hell we want.  If this offends your sensibilities then I'd strongly recommend not coming back here. 

I have to agree. Us Jack fans have much more at stake. And if some Jack fans consider themselves superior, maybe it's because we had to chip away at her armor to get one scene of true emotion. In my opinion, Tali nearly threw herself at Shepard. When you talk to Kelly, she says Tali wants to be "more than friends", and when she started talking about merging suit atmospheres it was too much for me. It was Liara all over again but without the good looks. I don't think I even have to go into Miranda...  Anyway, Jack fans only got a glimpse of the true Jack, and if we want more than a two minute cameo of her in ME3, it's going to take a lot of effort on our part. So forgive the passion of the minority, Pauravi.

I really hope people aren't labeling me as an 'elitist' or think I believe myself as superior.  I admit it was poor choice of words on my part but to the contrary I make no excuses.  Wouldn't you say that Jack is of a different category of a character? If you say yes then doesn't it make sense that fans within a certain similar category would be able to more strongly relate and connect with said character? 

Modifié par Neccrid, 03 avril 2010 - 07:40 .

[BobbyTheI]

 

Neccrid wrote...

It seems like alot of people were put off by her reveal trailer and that other CGI trailer. I was intrigued by her from the getgo.

Getting back into that discussion, I think a lot of people were still smarting from ARE YOU MOTHER***ERS READY FOR THE NEW S***?!?!" and worried that BioWare games were trying too hard to be badass and, as others have said, EXTREME.  It seemed like she was trying way too hard to be the Dark Action Girl with an attitude, which turned a lot of folks off.  Interesting in the end, it turned out she WAS trying too hard, but there was an in-character reason for it.

My initial reactions kinda ran the gamut.  My first reaction when I saw the first trailer was, "Ooh, yeah, I'm gonna dig this character!"  But as I watched it more and more, I began to see why others weren't feeling it.  So by the time the game came out, I was interested in Jack, but not as much as I was when she was first announced.

And I'll still never forgive BioWare's marketing department, for spoiling who the mysterious "Jack" was before the game came out.  Sure, they tried to call her "Subject Zero" in all the advertisements to throw us off the track, but too little, too late.

[Barrendall]

[quote]Neccrid wrote...

[quote]NovenseiWarden wrote...

[quote]royceclemens wrote...

[quote]Pauravi wrote...

Stick to discussing Jack's many merits, not why you think you're better than other people because you like Jack and because you're so non-mainstream.

          Neccrid wrote...

I really hope people aren't labeling me as an 'elitist' or think I believe myself as superior.  I admit it was poor choice of words on my part but to the contrary I make no excuses.  Wouldn't you say that Jack is of a different category of a character? If you say yes then doesn't it make sense that fans within a certain similar category would be able to more strongly relate and connect with said character? 

[/quote]

It wasn't a poor choice of words.  He took your words and twisted it into what he wanted it to say.  And yes I personally agree with you.

Edit: What did I do to this post??

Modifié par Barrendall111, 03 avril 2010 - 08:12 .

[revan11exile]

Say guys when you look at Jack does she remind you of Morrigan from Dragon Age a little?

[Jackal904]

revan11exile wrote...

Say guys when you look at Jack does she remind you of Morrigan from Dragon Age a little?

No. Morrigan ****es about everything I say and do. If it weren't for her outfit she would never be in my party.

Modifié par Jackal904, 03 avril 2010 - 08:14 .

[Pauravi]

Well well, my commentary seems to have stirred up some rather heated responses.
I didn't mean to make anyone angry, but I do want to defend my words a bit.

royceclemens wrote...

We discuss camerawork, backstory, what she says as opposed to what she means, what the tattoos might mean, how good the renderwork on her skin is and whatever else might come into our heads about this character.

Areyou under the impression that those things haven't been discussed in the Tali thread?  I guarantee that they have, at least 10 times over.  I've been in on the discussions.

We do not, however, post  when nothing is going on about the very fact that nothing is going on.  When we go to the bathroom or go to bed, we do so, and keep it to ourselves instead of posting about it to an echo chamber of like-minded souls.  We do not post suggestive fan-art, we do not write deathly serious fanfiction that cannot be confined to a forum post. 

And we do not, under any circumstances, go into another character's thread and tell them how their business should be conducted as though we were possessed by divine right.

1.  The Tali thread has pointless  posts like that because it has become more like a chatroom than a discussion thread.  People go there to socialize, not ONLY to share ideas.  You can ridicule that idea if you like, but I don't see anythingwrong with it.  Also -- isn't gathering like-minded people the very point of having a thread?  It isn't as if Tali fans agree on everything, certainly no more so than you do here.

2. I don't personally write or read fanfics.  That said, I hardly see the desire to make artwork or write about a character to be some sort of indictment against the fans and especially the character herself.  If you value being passionate about your character, as you seem to be, then I would think you wouldn't belittle such efforts.  Perhaps you consider such things juvenile, but that is entirely your opinion.

3. I was not trying to tell everyone in the thread what to do.  But you should know just as well as I that entire groups of fans are often judged by the words of a few of their posters.  Just as you have formed a (wrong) opinion of what all Tali fans are like by witnessing a few pages during busy posting/trolling hours, I was simply suggesting that people might get the wrong impression about Jack fans when they come in and see posts talking about how your character is the best, and everyone else are shallow idiots.

You are in the majority.  We are a very small, very passionate minority.  But being in the minority comes with certain privileges.  It goes part and parcel with all the sweating we have to do.  Fans of Miss Zorah are unaware of how much all their efforts are a mere formality at this point, as Tali will be in ME3 come hell or high water.  We're the ones teetering near the edge of uncertainty in the face of blind, shallow, petty hatred .

I don't think anyone ever earns the priviledge to assume that other people are idiots because they have different preferences.
That said, frankly I don't think either of our efforts are needed, and I never did.  I post in the Tali thread because I often have good discussions and I like the socializing, not because I ever believed that she would be written out
of the story.  I don't think that page count has anything to do with whether characters will survive or not, or be relegated to cameos or whatever.  I think BioWare has a good idea of where they want character development to go at this point, regardless of what we may do.

adriano_c wrote...

I can't resist taking the bait with this morcel...

Pauravi wrote...

And insinuating that people who like characters are either shallow or don't know what makes a good character? That's just rude.

Are you for real with this indignation?

No, in fact, I wasn't.  However, it simply isn't true, and if you believe as he does, then more the fool you.

-edit. Just had a look in that thread. The last two pages are, in their entirety, made up of fan art with not so clever captions.

Of course, two pages are just a few one thousandths of a percent of the threads content, and they fly by quickly during the day.  I guarantee that if you read between the posts and spend a little time lurking, you will find plenty of meaningful discussion.  Not that you'd want to, since clearly you're not a fan, but I'm just telling you: your book-cover impression is wrong.  I thought you were supposed to be good at looking past first appearances?

Neccrid wrote...

First  of all I never said once  'I'm better than anyone else'.  I simply stated that we are DIFFERENT fans.  Not BETTER fans. If the word 'class' threw you into this rave I apologize but in no shape or form did I mean class as in 'low class , Middle class'.

No, it wasn't the word "class".  It was mostly the part where you insinuate that fans of other characters are either shallow, or don't know anything about good character-writing, and that they have no interest in looking past the surface of a character.  You may not have said specifically that you were "better", but you certainly implied it.

And lastly, Don't even try and tell me you knew the person Jack was from the very getgo.  Say whatever you want but that's BULL and we all know it.

It isn't bull at all.  Did I know exactly what Cerberus did to her?  Of course not, but that isn't what I am saying.  Her tough-guy attitude comes across as a front, and it is clear from the get-go because none of her reasons for anything make sense except in that context.  She acts exactly as you would expect someone to act who was abused as a child and who has trouble forming close relationships because of it.  Her outward attitude and motivation is about nothing other than avoiding pain and surviving, and the fact that she complains about never having a choice over what to become implies quite plainly that she still has a desire for closeness lurking underneath.  Frankly it is a credit to her actress -- and she IS very well-acted -- that she does it so by-the-book
convincingly that probably any psychologist could see it in a heartbeat.

And don't try to dictate what I or anyone else discusses in this thread. Notice how I emphasis try.

I wasn't, tough guy.  I was suggesting that people are more inclined to like a character, or at least to want to join your discussion, if they don't feel like they're being insulted for liking another character.

Modifié par Pauravi, 03 avril 2010 - 08:23 .

[Barrendall]

revan11exile wrote...

Say guys when you look at Jack does she remind you of Morrigan from Dragon Age a little?

Are you commenting on Jack's acerbic tongue?  Both are strong characters but I"m sorry the similarity ends there for me.

Modifié par Barrendall111, 03 avril 2010 - 08:16 .

[revan11exile]

Barrendall111 wrote...

revan11exile wrote...

Say guys when you look at Jack does she remind you of Morrigan from Dragon Age a little?

Are you commenting on Jack's acerbic tongue?  Both are strong characters but I"m sorry the similarity ends there for me.

Not the cussing but her face i think it's her lips.