20813 réponses à ce sujet

[adriano_c]

Was looking at this poll http://social.biowar...975/polls/1722/ made about two months ago. Jack is basically tied with Jacob, which is pretty laughable to me. However, I get the impression that opinion of the character may have become more favourable. Perhaps a new poll is in order?

[Jackal904]

yfhfrg wrote...

What's the Tali bomb? Don't think I've seen it.

It will be revealed when the time is necessary.

We don't want to provoke a bunch of Talimancers for no reason.

[sm00thie88]

royceclemens wrote...

See, they went through all this trouble to engineer a suicide mission where team members can die.  Furthermore, they programmed a seemingly endless supply of permutations within the mission itself, be it whether you didn't recruit some sqadmembers or got some squadmembers killed before you even got off the Normandy.

That's a ton of trouble to go through right there, and that's just the last forty-five minutes of the game.  Wouldn't it be easier to spread all this out through a forty hour game like they would through ME3 provided all our wishes come true?  Isn't all this silly horsecrap about the resources involved in bringing everyone back really just moot?

And even if they did decide to relegate everyone to cameos and bring in a whole new squad, what are they going to do?  Plead ignorance about the product THEY made?  "Well, we didn't KNOW everyone would figure out the algorithm on how to get people killed and how not to!  Even WE didn't know what you could have done, even though we programmed the game!"

No.  I refuse to accept that.  BioWare has made mistakes in the past, but never anything on that level.

So I feel reasonably confident that Jack will be back, if for no other reason than to please the female players who have apparently taken a shine to her as of late.

What makes you unique is your antiseptic attitude when it comes to analysing patterns - I like it.

But I would also be interested how the thought occured, that female players recently got more attracted to Jack. I mean my girlfriend played me2, she really did like Jack but never thought about the possibility of romancing her (which would, of course, postulate she'd play a maleshep). But I could ask her, I actually should do that

Jackal904 wrote...

It will be
revealed when the time is necessary. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

We don't want to provoke a bunch of Talimancers for no
reason.

You're right, they some sort of assimilated with Legion and now they are many ^^ (I know it, I was there)

Modifié par sm00thie88, 14 avril 2010 - 07:45 .

[royceclemens]

yfhfrg wrote...

What's the Tali bomb? Don't think I've seen it.

From what I've heard, it's a collection of about two-to-five-hundred pictures and gifs of Tali.  So if any of the threads upset the holder of the Tali Bomb, then they will bombard that thread with all of the pictures, grinding the computers of anyone looking at that thread page to a grinding halt.

Yup.  TALIMANCERS: The North Korea of the Mass Effect Forum.

But going to Mkrgross' question as to why Jack is proving popular with female gamers, if I had to hypothesize, then it's because Tali and Miranda are obvious fanservice for male fans of the game, and Jack is so hard to chase that she even scares most male gamers off.  I think that, in an industry that bends over backwards to cater to horny young males, Jack is the least offensive option for a female gamer playing a male Shep. 

[Mondo47]

Gethforceone wrote...

But you wouldn't use it... right?

Of course not! As a fully-paid member of the Local 42 Mad Scientist's Union I'm under legislation to construct devices of evil genius but not to unleash them save in the direst of circumstances... like if the Miranda fans set robot locusts on us or something. Villainy requires reaction - someone has to make the first move to prompt the villainy. No harm in being prepared though! That's what the 80's taught us, and now we've got enough nukes to win 146 World War Threes...

Maybe I should rethink this and send them some nice cookies... I think I'm starting down a bad path

Mkrgross wrote...

Question: Why do you suppose Jack is getting more popular with the ladies? (Question for everyone).

I figure she is not your typical sterotype sex-symbol, and she actually has a personality, but I'm not female so I am not %100 positive on that.

She's a strong woman. With a few notable exceptions, women in video games are often relegated to the role of sidekicks, damsels in distress or emasculating villains. I think Jack is one of those exceptions. Sure, she's not the hero, but we see enough of her to know she's tough, takes **** from no-one, forthright, opinionated and not afraid of what anyone else thinks of her. She can stand on her own two feet and spit in the face of whatever the world throws at her. At the same time, she's not just a perfect little hero-gal; the game shows us she is vulnerable to the forces of the world around her. She can display both qualities at once; never being a pushover, but at the same time longing for acceptance and a place to just stop (to paraphrase Dr Chakwas). She won't run from a fight, but she's not afraid to cry; she'll stare down any foe, but can admit she needs someone.

That's why I thought her writer was female for so long - the whole package was pitched perfectly. Men tend to write women as being one thing or another (even the greatest writers have done this, and it's no sin really - women are hard to understand for men, just as they can be for women at times); strong to the point of being codified penis-free men, or trembling Bambi-like girl-children that vaciliate between princess and wh*re depending on which hero courts them. Jack has a foot in each camp without straying deep into what makes each side of womanhood as represented in fiction too much of a pastiche.

So in that sense, she's a real woman; women can embrace her for what she is and see a little bit of both sides of their hearts in her. Plus women tend not to judge a book based on tattoos and a shaved head as much as guys do

[Gethforceone]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Gethforceone wrote...
That is bull! They took all those lines out for what? What point was there for taking them out?
It would have a little more incentive to put more than just your favorite squadmates in your party.

JohnnyDollar wrote...
@Gethforceone
Would
you elaborate a little more on your statement?

Gethforceone wrote...
How
so?

Are you talking about unused audio like squad banter and such still in the game folders?

I was talking about the character specific lines about your other teammates falling in battle.

Modifié par Gethforceone, 14 avril 2010 - 07:48 .

[Gethforceone]

[quote]Mondo47 wrote...

[quote]Gethforceone wrote...

But you wouldn't use it... right?[/quote]

Of course not! As a fully-paid member of the Local 42 Mad Scientist's Union I'm under legislation to construct devices of evil genius but not to unleash them save in the direst of circumstances... like if the Miranda fans set robot locusts on us or something. Villainy requires reaction - someone has to make the first move to prompt the villainy. No harm in being prepared though! That's what the 80's taught us, and now we've got enough nukes to win 146 World War Threes...

Maybe I should rethink this and send them some nice cookies... I think I'm starting down a bad path [
quote]


Good to know.

Modifié par Gethforceone, 14 avril 2010 - 07:51 .

[The Uncanny]

royceclemens wrote...

I think that, in an industry that bends over backwards to cater to horny young males, Jack is the least offensive option for a female gamer playing a male Shep. 

This poll is certainly suggestive of that.

[sm00thie88]

Okay, I'm going to quote my girlfriends words, asked her right away.

"Miranda is easy, made to attract male players and stimulate their fantasies. My guess would be, the most pretending they liked the melting ice queen are just using that to defend the simple fact, that they wanted to see some action in the technic quarter. Tali is a bit different, she's not easy. But she reveals the wish of male power, in a sexual way. Unexperienced, willing to somehow learn from the migthy shepard. You can teach her, you probably even can form her. Innocence attracts, 'causing such wishes. Jack is different at that point. And she might even point out an important understatement. Rebellation against a male dominated society. She is, or at least seems, tough and strong and not willing to take futile orders or wishes from neither males (important) nor females. Besides that, she is overdrawn when facing the problem, that a lot of women are scared little girls inside, insecure and not sure how to explain what they want."

So this is, summarized, what my girlfriend just told me. Kind of her first thoughts on that question, but she said she wanted to look deeper into that, into Jack.

[Epantiras]

Mkrgross wrote...

Question: Why do you suppose Jack is getting more popular with the ladies? (Question for everyone).

I figure she is not your typical sterotype sex-symbol, and she actually has a personality, but I'm not female so I am not %100 positive on that.

Well, being one of the few (?) women here on the Jack thread, I can answer your question

You're right about the "not the typical stereotype sex-symbol" and the "has a personality" thing. I'd also like to add that I like Jack because she's surived things like toruture, rape, being experimented upon, growing up alone without parents in an hostile environment, and so on - and that made her stronger. Yet she's not a "stereotype feminist" such as Shar-Teel ("men are pathetic"), and she's not there to impress you either (when she brags about her past crimes she's just trying to scare you away). She's a badass and - unlike other badass characters such as Grunt or Zaeed - you can acutally see that there's more below the surface. Yes we women tend to like complicated things (just look at Thane's face).

And, just in case Bioware people were reading my words, thanks for NOT including a Femshep/Jack renegade romance. It would have me yell "fanservice!" at the screen and would have hated Jack as much as I hated the asari consort. Yes I do still bear grudge for that.

yfhfrg wrote...

Jack also fits the 'bad boy that all the
girls go for'  stereotype to a T.Except for that trifling detail of
being female. She's evasive and rude but seems like she's in pain and
just needs someone to love. She likely brings out the maternal instincts
in some female gamers.

Damn you're right! I've just noticed that's she's not that far from being a female version of Bishop

Modifié par Epantiras, 14 avril 2010 - 08:03 .

[Mondo47]

I didn't even know you could have sex with the Asari consort until about a month ago! Laughed my ass off.

I had the same issue with Jack re. potential bisexuality. I've no issue with it in reality, but on a "bad girl" character, it's not so much fanservice as Godzilla-sized cliche. Potentially worse.

[sm00thie88]

Mondo47 wrote...

I didn't even know you could have sex with the Asari consort until about a month ago! Laughed my ass off.
I had the same issue with Jack re. potential bisexuality. I've no issue with it in reality, but on a "bad girl" character, it's not so much fanservice as Godzilla-sized cliche. Potentially worse.

Same here, didn't know that about the consort... well I nearly pissed myself.

I love fanservice, I love when developers listen to the community but I also love it, when characters stay believable and not get tuned to (sry for the expression following) universal-usable-f*c*-machines pouncing everything that isn't on the tree when counting to three.

So I'm with you, glad bioware didn't make Jack bi... and wanted to add, I have absolutely nothing against bi- oder homosexuality.

[Mak999]

I think Jack likes those guys who are not afraid of difficulties and obstacles.
I'm sorry if someone hurt.

Sorry for my english

Modifié par Mak999, 14 avril 2010 - 08:05 .

[sm00thie88]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

sm00thie88 wrote...
So this is, summarized, what my girlfriend just told me. Kind of her first thoughts on that question, but she said she wanted to look deeper into that, into Jack.

Deeper character to me is the key. 

As I quoted my girlfriend I didn't keep in mind that probably I'm understanding what she means when others potentially are not, so things may misslead. That's why she first started with miranda and tali, just to show that Jacks character is a lot deeper

[The Uncanny]

Mondo47 wrote...

I had the same issue with Jack re. potential bisexuality. I've no issue with it in reality, but on a "bad girl" character, it's not so much fanservice as Godzilla-sized cliche. Potentially worse.

But why? A stereotype is about a lot more than just visual appearance and her
character is genuinely three dimensional - more than you can say
about most of the other characters in the game. The great thing about
Jack is that it would have been
easy for her to turn out to be a stereotype... but she isn't.

[Mkrgross]

Mondo47 wrote...

I didn't even know you could have sex with the Asari consort until about a month ago! Laughed my ass off.
I had the same issue with Jack re. potential bisexuality. I've no issue with it in reality, but on a "bad girl" character, it's not so much fanservice as Godzilla-sized cliche. Potentially worse.

I agree, since "cliche" and "sterotype" are the only arguements Jack-haters have, I give kudos to BW for not adding anymore ammunition to the haters arsenal. BW walked a fine line with Jack, but I think they did good by her. Too bad they did not put that much detail into a few other characters. Maybe 12 squadies were too many.

[LiquidGrape]

Epantiras wrote...
And, just in case Bioware people were reading my words, thanks for NOT including a Femshep/Jack renegade romance. It would have me yell "fanservice!" at the screen and would have hated Jack as much as I hated the asari consort. Yes I do still bear grudge for that.

Isn't that a prerequisite that comes with buying either Mass Effect game?

- "Step right up! Spot the chauvinist-wet dream! Is it hidden behind door number one, door number two or inside Miranda's wardrobe malfunction? Only the imagination of our frat boy demographic sets the limits to what we are willing to do for your money!
Step right up!"

[BobbyTheI]

Gethforceone wrote...

I was talking about the character specific lines about your other teammates falling in battle.

Really, it could be any number of reasons.  Having done some coding in my time, I know that sometimes the best laid plans can not work out due to one issue or another.  Maybe having the code to having squadmates detect when another went down was making the game run slowly, or some other reason.

And to answer somebody's question from a few pages back, yes, somebody did listen to all the squadmate dialogue: this guy with nothing better to do right here.   And yes, pretty much all the squadmates have "teammate fallen" dialogue.  Not all of them have responses to every other possible teammate; there are a few generic "friendly down!" quotes that I assume would have been used in their place.  Even if they weren't in the game, I'm glad they're there, because they're a good source of teammates saying other teammates' names for use in my audio edits.

And yes, that was the Liara/Shadow Broker dialogue I was referring to posted earlier.  That and the Kasumi lines left in the files were pretty much the two big discoveries to be found. 

I remember one time, I got all excited because I noticed that in the romance conversations, there were 0 second conversation lines in there where the same-sex dialogue options for Shepard would be.  I thought, "Wow, here's evidence that they were going to do same-sex romances, but removed the dialogue!"  But then it occurred to me that they were probably just place-holder sounds, to make sure the game didn't crash out if somebody glitched or hacked their way into a same-sex romance.

Still, quite a few early romance scenes for same-sex romances were voiced, but it's usually just the first conversation where romance can come up, which usually happens for both sexes, but gets steered in a platonic direction if you're of the same sex.  They probably just had Mark and Jennifer read the same sex dialogue for those to make the recording sessions less complicated.

Of course, since the first potential romance conversation with Jack is the same one where the "casual sex" option comes up, we get this.

I still wonder what the whole "I am not screwing Garrus" line is about, though.  Since Meer read it off in even more of a monotone than usual, I assume it wasn't even meant to be heard in the game, and was maybe just a placeholder sound to mark the spot where MaleShep/Garrus romance talk would have gone, if it existed.