20813 réponses à ce sujet

[adriano_c]

royceclemens wrote...

Adriano, I've only ever posted on another character's thread once, and that was only because the guy who voiced Garrus was on JUSTIFIED last week. I thought the kids on the Garrus thread would like to hear that. They seem nice and decidedly not insane.

So, is it fair to say that none of the other characters appeal to you enough to discuss them (in their threads)? I suppose what I'm really curious about is whether or not people who see 'Jack' as a draw also gravitate towards other characters like-mindedly, if at all. For instance, is there a propensity for regulars here to be intrigued by a 'Mordin', a 'Samara', or whoever, as well? To enough of a degree to put in the same sort of "effort" in assessing and discussing them?

The thing, though, is that I wasn't really aware that there were factions behind the ME1 characters until a couple of weeks leading up to ME2's release. I mean, I kinda looked on all of the ME1 characters with equal ambivalence as that game was pretty much a test-run for the newfangled conversation wheel. They spent a lot of time talking and a whole lot less time really saying anything. I didn't really care about any of them nearly as much as the band of plucky outsiders in JADE EMPIRE. But that was cool, the draw was that BioWare was trying new things.

So when I found out Tali had this massive, seething throng built up around her, I was like "Really? The walking Quarian history textbook that can open crates for you?" So every once in a while I go to teh Tali thread in the futile hope that I can gain some insight into her ME1 appeal outside of the accent and Dem Hips. I've been tempted to comment, but I don't think my usual method of in-depth analysis would go over well there. It's like the dialogue in a Diablo Cody movie. No one really talks to anyone. They just emit non sequiturs to the open air.

And this is why I stay here.

A similar sentiment for me. In my opinion, ME1 had the most forgettable cast Bioware has ever written. So, when I started looking through these forums (after completing ME2), I was pretty shocked to learn that 'Tali', her role and romance angle, in the second game, were the product of some massive fan campaign. I was very surprised to see any of those characters having substantial fanbases at all, to be honest. At this point, though, I kind of just leave that aspect alone, alongside the rest of the internet's vagaries which I'll never "get".

Speaking of which, there was a pretty amusing thread somewhere around here, satirizing the demand for inconsequential NPCs to be made into full-fledged party members.

-edit. http://social.biowar...5/index/2257497

Modifié par adriano_c, 15 avril 2010 - 02:23 .

[royceclemens]

Jackal904 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Azint wrote...
how do you think it would affect her in the next game?

I paragon romanced her but I barely want her to change at all.
I like the tattoos, the shaved head, the sarcastic bitter attitude, all that I'd want to change is that Jack now knows no matter how much of an arse the world is to her and no matter what she does she'll have someone to support her and watch her back.

I too still want Jack to keep the tattoos, the shaved head, and the in-your-face attitude. But I would also like to see some changes caused by you romancing her. Like she could be less veangeful and a bit less violent. She should feel more comfortable expressing her feelings to Shepard, and she should feel more comfortable socializing with other squadmates.

About the topic of ME2 characters in ME3; There are so many variations of character dispositions that can be carried over to ME3. A character can be dead, loyal, unloyal, romanced, romanced and then broken up with, loyalty lost due to an arguement or failed loyalty quest. Some characters BioWare could get away with not having to make significant differences in their attitude and dialogue in ME3 based on your actions in ME2 that were related to them. Jack on the other hand, she tends to flow along the extremes. There should be a significant difference in her attitude and dialogue based an actions you took with her in ME2. If she is unloyal because you didn't do her loyalty mission, she may or may not leave, she may grow increasingly unstable and anxious, making her become a liability. If you lose her loyalty because you took Miranda's side then she would probably leave in ME3. She would also probably leave if you had casual sex with her or romanced her and then broke up with her, especially if you broke up with her when she comes to you in your cabin, that is just harsh. I'm not sure what she would be like if she's loyal and you don't romance her. If you do romance her then she would definitely stay and have a better outlook on life now that she has someone who she knows genuinely cares about her.

Well, if she's not loyal, she's most likely dead.  If you tried to keep her alive without her loyalty, then you can't take her with you to fight Pants.  Which leaves her holding the line, making her death a damn sight better than 50/50 if Mordin's not there.  I'm not saying it's impossible.  I'm just saying it's difficult. 

The Para/Ren decision on her loyalty will more likely be a dialogue switchout, like they did with Garrus and Saleon.

Dumping Jack in the cabin will, I think, have the same effect as dumping any of the ME1 LIs before Ilos... Which is to say none.  Provided, of course you don't shack up with anyone else after the mission's over, in which case it won't be mentioned.

The thing I'm curious about is what kind of story-oriented stuff we'll be missing out on if we off Jack.  Some of the loyalty missions lather on some heavy foreshadowing, the most obvious being Tali, Legion, Mordin and Grunt.  But some can be found elsewhere if you're attentive enough and read into things a little too much.  Like the "genetic destiny of the Asari" with Samara.  Garrus broaches the subject of what Shepard would do if someone betrayed him, and then just kinda left it there.  Kasumi's dangerous graybox, Miranda's dad, the list goes on.

So what can we glean from Jack's LM?  Ascension?  Both "Destiny" and "Ascension" seem to be the arc words in ME2, so I think that ship is gonna come into play somewhere.  I'm just a man who loves crazy-ass theories.

[royceclemens]

adriano_c wrote...

So, is it fair to say that none of the other characters appeal to you enough to discuss them (in their threads)? I suppose what I'm really curious about is whether or not people who see 'Jack' as a draw also gravitate towards other characters like-mindedly, if at all. For instance, is there a propensity for regulars here to be intrigued by a 'Mordin', a 'Samara', or whoever, as well? To enough of a degree to put in the same sort of "effort" in assessing and discussing them?

Oh, I wouldn't say that at all.  I'd love to talk about Tali, and how her romance dovetails nicely with us, as she's essentially the Quarian Shepard, whose troubles closely mirror yours with the council.  I'd love to talk about Liara, and the slippery slope she's falling into, potentially into Shakespeare-level tragedy as she's killed her mother only to, in essence, replace her as a potential accomplice to the downfall of all organic life.  This could lead to death with Liara serving somewhat as a well-intentioned Cordelia to Benezia's madness-addled Lear.

I'd love to talk about these things, but have no one to talk to them to.  I'd like to go to those threads and offer whatever I can in terms of interpretation or analysis, but fear I shall be beset upon by fans who love Tali and Liara so much that, well, they can't help but get some of it on me... Especially on my leg.

I'm not saying all the fans are like that, as York and Azint are sterling examples of both camps, but I am saying that enough of them are like that to warrant caution.

Modifié par royceclemens, 15 avril 2010 - 02:53 .

[MHRazer]

royceclemens wrote...

Oh, I wouldn't say that at all.  I'd love to talk about Tali, and how her romance dovetails nicely with us, as she's essentially the Quarian Shepard, whose troubles closely mirror yours with the council.  I'd love to talk about Liara, and the slippery slope she's falling into, potentially into Shakespeare-level tragedy as she's killed her mother only to, in essence, replace her as a potential accomplice to the downfall of all organic life.  This could lead to death with Liara serving somewhat as a well-intentioned Cordelia to Benezia's madness-addled Lear.

I'd love to talk about these things, but have no one to talk to them to.  I'd like to go to those threads and offer whatever I can in terms of interpretation or analysis, but fear I shall be beset upon by fans who love Tali and Liara so much that, well, they can't help but get some of it on me... Especially on my leg.

I'm not saying all the fans are like that, as York and Azint are sterling examples of both camps, but I am saying that enough of them are like that to warrant caution.

That's okay, it just means we get you all to ourselves 

[Jackal904]

adriano_c wrote...

So, is it fair to say that none of the other characters appeal to you enough to discuss them (in their threads)? I suppose what I'm really curious about is whether or not people who see 'Jack' as a draw also gravitate towards other characters like-mindedly, if at all. For instance, is there a propensity for regulars here to be intrigued by a 'Mordin', a 'Samara', or whoever, as well? To enough of a degree to put in the same sort of "effort" in assessing and discussing them?

I like all the characters, but Jack is the only character I care about enough to post in her fan thread. In my book Jack is far ahead of all other characters, but the next few would be Garrus, Grunt, and Samara. I like Kasumi a lot too. BioWare did a great job with her. The reason I like them is not because of any similarities they have to Jack. I've just always been a big fan of badass chicks. Especially badass chicks that show some vulnerability after a while.

Modifié par Jackal904, 15 avril 2010 - 03:00 .

[Azint]

So the general reception from my post is that you would like Jack to remain consistent.

You seem to worry that she may change too much. I doubt that Jack will go through a radical change in events outside of the game like Liara did, so I'm sure any change in character will be due to choices made by the players in their own games. Bioware has good writers, to believe that Jack will actually drastically change as a character into something she clearly wasn't is poor writing, unless a good explanation is used-- but any explanation still would not justify why it would actually be done. There is a fine line between character developement and character derailment, Liara's change is still up in the air, but seeing the reception, I don't think any other character will get the same treatment, I would not worry for Jack.

What I do worry about is how Jack may be presented in the next game, I am trying to get input in how much she actually would change. Between paragon romance, the renegade fling, and simply not romancing her do lead to quite different outcomes in the end, what would become of her?

[Jackal904]

Azint wrote...

Between paragon romance, the renegade fling, and simply not romancing her do lead to quite different outcomes in the end, what would become of her?

Yeah, those three scenarios should lead to significantly different outcomes. BioWare couldn't use the same outcome for any two of them and have it make sense, unless she simply leaves unless you paragon romance her, which I think would be kind of lazy on BioWare's part. This is a slight concern for me, because there are so many different outcomes for Jack in ME3 based on actions taken with her in ME2. And that will be a lot of work for BioWare to create different outcomes for each scenario. But I have faith in BioWare. I just hope they do her "continued" romance in ME3 justice.

[royceclemens]

Azint wrote...

So the general reception from my post is that you would like Jack to remain consistent.

You seem to worry that she may change too much. I doubt that Jack will go through a radical change in events outside of the game like Liara did, so I'm sure any change in character will be due to choices made by the players in their own games. Bioware has good writers, to believe that Jack will actually drastically change as a character into something she clearly wasn't is poor writing, unless a good explanation is used-- but any explanation still would not justify why it would actually be done. There is a fine line between character developement and character derailment, Liara's change is still up in the air, but seeing the reception, I don't think any other character will get the same treatment, I would not worry for Jack.

What I do worry about is how Jack may be presented in the next game, I am trying to get input in how much she actually would change. Between paragon romance, the renegade fling, and simply not romancing her do lead to quite different outcomes in the end, what would become of her?

Well, here's the thing: Jack is a very definitely formed character, but her motivations are hazy.  We still don't know a whole lot about her.  Jack, for all her virtues, isn't one for straight answers.  And being that we leave her in a state of transition at the end of ME2 no matter whether you roamnce her or not, Jack could go any number of ways.

We've talked about Jack settling down and having kids.  We've talked about her going Paragon Robin Hood.  We've talked about her going Renegade pirate.  We've talked about her getting a teaching job at Ascension.  We've even talked about the possibility that Jack may commit suicide in the interrim if you took the Renegade option with her loyalty mission.

The thing is that Jack is so unpredictable that none of these things are strictly out of character.  Jack could go any number of ways, and outside of her becoming a ballet dancer who farts sunshine, rainbows, sugarless cupcakes and high-paying union jobs, I don't see how they could go in any direction that could completely derail her.

If Jack meets a downfall, however, it will be not in any huge thing she does or what kind of person she becomes, but it will be in the details.  She might sound different or have a different way of saying things.  She may still have the bald head and the tats but she just... Won't be Jack anymore.

[Hunter Boris.0]

Who's the badass biotic, ****?

[adriano_c]

royceclemens wrote...

Oh, I wouldn't say that at all.  I'd love to talk about Tali, and how her romance dovetails nicely with us, as she's essentially the Quarian Shepard, whose troubles closely mirror yours with the council.  I'd love to talk about Liara, and the slippery slope she's falling into, potentially into Shakespeare-level tragedy as she's killed her mother
only to, in essence, replace her as a potential accomplice to the downfall of all organic life.  This could lead to death with Liara serving somewhat as a well-intentioned Cordelia to Benezia's madness-addled Lear.

I'd love to talk about these things, but have no one to talk to them to.  I'd like to go to those threads and offer whatever I can in terms of interpretation or analysis, but fear I shall be beset upon by fans who love Tali and Liara so much that, well, they can't help but get some of it on me... Especially on my leg.

I'm not saying all the fans are like that, as York and Azint are sterling examples of both camps, but I am saying that enough of them are like that to warrant caution.

Ah, I get it now! You're only here seeking refuge from the masses that consider 'Tali' and 'Liara' a lifestyle, lol.

MHRazer wrote...
That's okay, it just means we get you all to ourselves [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]

Tsk, tsk, take no pleasure caging a bird yearning to sing!

Jackal904 wrote...

I like all the characters, but Jack is the only character I care about enough to post in her fan thread. In my book Jack is far ahead of all other characters, but the next few would be Garrus, Grunt, and Samara. I like Kasumi a lot too. BioWare did a great job with her. The reason I like them is not because of any similarities they have to Jack. I've just always been a big fan of badass chicks. Especially badass chicks that show some vulnerability after a while.

So you're just a person of diverse taste, I take it?

-edit. They really need to set up some sort of multi-quoting feature or fix the alignment issues!!

Modifié par adriano_c, 15 avril 2010 - 03:24 .

[royceclemens]

adriano_c wrote...

Ah, I get it now! You're only here seeking refuge from the masses that consider 'Tali' and 'Liara' a lifestyle, lol.

Well, I won't go so far as to say that.  As much as I like those two characters, those are the only two bits of insight I've been able to form on them.  Even if the Tali and Liara threads were filled to the brim with stately, scholarly cats such as ourselves, I'd go in, voice my analysis, field a few follow-ups and then come back here.

Because while, in my eyes at least, those two characters have myriad virtues, I don't think there's any denying at this point that Jack is the gift that keeps on giving.

We discuss the same few points time to time: What's next?  What do the tattoos mean?  Where are the scars from?  Marriage or no marriag?  What about her past?  But while move on to other things, more folks keep filtering in, adding their own perspectives and they can give us even more food for thought.

We as fans of this character... Dare I say it... Reach consensus. 

[GodWood]

This is really the only character thread I actually follow (I am more of a lurker though).

I did however make a post in the Liara thread once asking for their thoughts on Liara inevitably moving on from Shepard (she does have like 700 years without him), they mainly had the conclusion that she'd never have another partner after Shepard.

I was too lazy to debate that any further and just decided to let them continue posting pics with love hearts surrounding her...

[adriano_c]

Jackal904 wrote...

Yeah, those three scenarios should lead to significantly different outcomes. BioWare couldn't use the same outcome for any two of them and have it make sense, unless she simply leaves unless you paragon romance her, which I think would be kind of lazy on BioWare's part. This is a slight concern for me, because there are so many different outcomes for Jack in ME3 based on actions taken with her in ME2. And that will be a lot of work for BioWare to create different outcomes for each scenario. But I have faith in BioWare. I just hope they do her "continued" romance in ME3 justice.

I think this has been discussed before, and I'll have to disagree, again (if so), regarding the complexity of potential personality shifts and/or outcomes for 'Jack'.

Paragon romance storyline = changed 'Jack'. Just how much, we'll see, but I don't expect anything too drastic aside from how she interacts with 'Shepard', and possibly becoming more benign with team members and overall demeanour.

Renegade romance "storyline" = business as usual for 'Jack'. All that does, really, is keep her as is. It's what she initially expected of 'Shepard', afterall.

No romance storyline = again, business as usual for 'Jack'.

The only other path I could see affecting her is going the full renegade route, having her kill the guy at Teltin, and perhaps giving her that final push on a downward, self-destructive spiral. If Bioware went so far as to even program this one possible outcome, I'd be pleasantly surprised.

royceclemens wrote...

Because while, in my eyes at least, those two characters have myriad virtues, I don't think there's any denying at this point that Jack is the gift that keeps on giving.

We discuss the same few points time to time: What's next?  What do the tattoos mean?  Where are the scars
from?  Marriage or no marriag?  What about her past?  But while move on to other things, more folks keep filtering in, adding their own perspectives and they can give us even more food for thought.

We as fans of this character... Dare I say it... Reach consensus. 

Agreed on this. It's interesting when even slightly retread material gets spun (by someone new, perhaps) in such a way that it leads to entirely other topics of conversation.

-edit. More ridiculous formatting...

Modifié par adriano_c, 15 avril 2010 - 03:47 .

[MHRazer]

adriano_c wrote...

MHRazer wrote...
That's okay, it just means we get you all to ourselves [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]

Tsk, tsk, take no pleasure caging a bird yearning to sing!

Not caged, exclusive! 

[adriano_c]

Samara's thread recently had an influx of bikini-clad "warrior" pictures. Anomaly or sign of things to come?!

[Dominus5412]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

AFAIK this is basically the same case with all of the character threads except for this one and Samara's.  Maybe Garrus's thread to a lessor extent.

The Ash thread is fair-to-good about occasional serious discussion about the character beyond OMG SHED NEVER LEEVE ASHANDSHEPARD4EVA

[adriano_c]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

adriano_c wrote...
Samara's thread recently had an influx of bikini-clad "warrior" pictures. Anomaly or sign of things to come?!

Anomaly, except for maybe every once in a great while.  Cut me a little slack, will you?

Hah, never!

[adriano_c]

The thread's code is unflinching in that respect, as far as I know.