20813 réponses à ce sujet

[sm00thie88]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

The loyalty mission may have brought some healing.  Who is to say that she has not visited Dr. Chokwas?  That could be considered professional help.  Medication ca go a looong way.  It can help balance various chemicals in your brain and so forth.  There is nothing wrong with that IMO.  I was just simply pointing out that IMO, she has GOT to have some psychological issues.  This doesn't mean that she can't have a boyfriend though. 

Well I don't know if it brought healing - it definitely aided her to close old stories. But as I experience it she remembers a lot of things different then they really where, which leads to the fact that this was all made because of her well evolved ability of self defense. It also goes hand in hand with beeing a biotic talented kid, has some affinities with talented kids in our society which have a very good fantasy which helps them to put aside or twist around traumatic memories and so protect them from seriously get damaged. She could have payed Dr. Chokwas a visit, but as she is not a psychologist I don't think she would have given her the treatment needed if she really had that sort of issues, which I don't think she has.
But as bioware does throw out a line that points to that issues but never defines them clearly, everyone can read out different possibilities. I'd like to stick with the childhood lucky twisting around memories to protect herself from getting that far.

[gneissguy2003]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

gneissguy2003 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

gneissguy2003 wrote...
I believe Royce more or less answered that question in a previous post, and I'm inclined to agree with his assessment.

royceclemens wrote...
In a word: horsecrap.

She has problems of a personal nature, but
they are not psychological.  We are not putting the moves on a crazy
woman.  The fact of the matter is that Jack cares for Shepard.  She
wants a relationship as she's left verbal clues all over the place. 
But she's so afraid of losing something like she lost Murtock that she
won't even try to have it anymore.

I don't see how anyone could go through what Jack has gone through in her life and not have some psychological problems.  I am not saying that this means she is a psycho or lunatic.  Psychological issues cover quite a broad area.  She may just have problems with depression for example, but I think it would be more than this in itself.  She may have trouble coping in a healthy realtionship because of the way she has been treated since childhood by others.  She may have serious anger management issues.  etc...To me, to think that she would not have some psychological issues, would be like assuming a severly abused child of today would not have psychological issues as that child grows into adulthood.

In a way, you could say that we all have psychological issues. None of us is completely 100% straight in the head. However, I think that's what makes certain people interesting and one reason why I don't think saying I come from a dysfunctional family necessarily is a bad thing. In my mind, it all comes down to exactly what those psychological issues are and to what extent they end up manifesting themselves.

Does Jack have behavioral problems?  Of course.  Behavioral problems are much different than textbook psychological problems, as the latter require medication and a professional observation.  The argument is predicated on the assumption that Jack isn't responsible for her actions and that she presents an involuntary danger to herself and others.  If this were the case then I'd wholeheartedly agree that romance truly isn't her best course. 

But I don't believe it.  Jack has had a lot of monsters under her bed and precious little options.  She knows how she deals with things isn't something that a well-adjusted person does but she still does it not because she can't help herself, but because it "works."  At least in her worldview it does.

Psychological problem issues does not mean one is not responsible for his or her actions.  Professional observation can be as simple as a visit to the doctor in some cases.  Look at all the people nowadays on anti-depressents.

I won't pretend to be some professional in the medical or psychological fields, but sometimes I wonder whether the number of people on such drugs is due to real, honest to God issues that require medication, or is it due to something in our culture where certain problems are thrown out of proportion and the use of such drugs has become the default answer?

sm00thie also makes a point that if Jack wanted to talk to someone on the ship about potential mental issue, Dr. Chakwas wouldn't necessarily be able to give her that help. In fact, Dr. Chakwas would possibly refer her to someone else such as a true psychologist or counselor... which, sadly, would mean Jack would have to deal with Yeoman Chambers. Good Lord, I don't think that could end pretty at all.

Modifié par gneissguy2003, 15 avril 2010 - 08:52 .

[sm00thie88]

gneissguy2003 wrote...


I won't pretend to be some professional in the medical or psychological fields, but sometimes I wonder whether the number of people on such drugs is due to real, honest to God issues that require medication, or is it due to something in our culture where certain problems are thrown out of proportion and the use of such drugs has become the default answer?

This seems to be a social phenomenom. Society and culture forms and creates the way, people need to be to fit into that collective. With that, wrong and right are formed. Matter of fact. The more complex the structures of society get surround us, the easier and stringent get's the definition of beeing "normal". That means, it gets easy to fall out of this scheme and so beeing marked as not normal. To regain this status again, proclaimed by society to be normal to fit into itself, people get all sorts of treatment they actually would not need, but as they are a product of the mentioned they don't question, they act.

[Jackal904]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

The loyalty mission may have brought some healing.  Who is to say that she has not visited Dr. Chokwas?  That could be considered professional help.  Medication can go a looong way.  It can help balance various chemicals in your brain and so forth.  There is nothing wrong with that IMO.  I was just simply pointing out that IMO, she has GOT to have some psychological issues.  This doesn't mean that she can't have a boyfriend though. 

Oh ya she definitely has psychological issues. Anyone that gets warm feelings from killing someone probably isn't very right in the head. When I first asked Mordin if the crew had any health problems I was expecting him to say something about Jack.

But it doesn't mean that she's completely out of her mind and uncontrolable. She is a lot more sane than people give her credit for. Considering what she has gone through, I'm surprised she can even speak.

For those who say she can't maintain a relationship, I think they just don't know enough about Jack. They probably have never talked to her outside of her recruitment mission. I think it would be difficult for anyone to argue against Jack's ability to maintain a relationship after they have gone through her paragon romance.

Modifié par Jackal904, 15 avril 2010 - 08:55 .

[Booglarize]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

sm00thie also makes a point that if Jack wanted to talk to someone on the ship about potential mental issue, Dr. Chakwas wouldn't necessarily be able to give her that help. In fact, Dr. Chakwas would possibly refer her to someone else such as a true psychologist or counselor... which, sadly, would mean Jack would have to deal with Yeoman Chambers. Good Lord, I don't think that could end pretty at all.

Seems to me that Kelly's basically more of an unofficial observer when it comes to psychological matters - Jack would have to have to see a trained therapist, if anyone. That said, she could take some basic meds to keep things under control in the mean time. Jack seems more on-edge than depressed, though... so perhaps anxiety meds might be a better choice than antidepressants. 

Modifié par Booglarize, 15 avril 2010 - 09:17 .

[gneissguy2003]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

JohnnyDollar...
Psychological problem issues does not mean one is not responsible for his or her actions.  Professional observation can be as simple as a visit to the doctor in some cases.  Look at all the people nowadays on anti-depressants.

gneissguy2003 wrote...
I won't pretend to be some professional in the medical or psychological fields, but sometimes I wonder whether the number of people on such drugs is due to real, honest to God issues that require medication, or is it due to something in our culture where certain problems are thrown out of proportion and the use of such drugs has become the default answer?

I have taken anti-depressants in the past myself.  They made a big difference.  They can help balance seretonin for example, among other chemicals in the brain.  They do work.  Of course there are always cases that are misdiagnosed.  Some people have to take anti-depressants because of their condition.  Some people will stay depressed regardless of the life they have lived or whatever conditions that they have lived through unless they are on medication. 

I have no doubt of the effectiveness of such drugs, and I totally agree that they work and are indeed necessary for some people to function effectively on a daily basis. I also agree that there are people who are misdiagnosed, whether its them being given drugs when they don't truly need them or vice versa.

Knowing what we know about Jack, though, I have a hard time believing that she necessarily would need something along the lines of an anti-depressant or other similar drugs. If Shepard is in a relationship with her, maybe at some point the idea comes up in conversation, but it would never be because Shepard wants to talk about it... Jack would have to be the one to broach the subject almost assuredly. Otherwise, Shepard runs the risk of opening up a can of worms he'd regret for some time. Also, with Jack's history of being drugged, I think it would take her quite some time before she trusted anyone, even a doctor such as Chakwas, to put any sort of drugs into her.

[Jackal904]

She would probably space herself before taking crazy pills. In the beginning of Legion's loyalty mission she says, "If you brainwashed me, made me nod my head and smile all the time, I'd rather be dead. Let me die as me."

Modifié par Jackal904, 15 avril 2010 - 09:22 .

[gneissguy2003]

Jackal904 wrote...

She would probably space herself before taking crazy pills. In the beginning of Legion's loyalty mission she says, "If you brainwashed me, made me nod my head and smile all the time, I'd rather be dead. Let me die as me."

A solid point.

[Booglarize]

Jackal904 wrote...

She would probably space herself before taking any crazy pills. In the beginning of Legion's loyalty mission she says, "If you brainwashed me, made me nod my head and smile all the time, I'd rather be dead. Let me die as me."

To be fair, I used to feel that way myself at one point. I suspect that a good shrink would be able to make her come around eventually.

[Ultai]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I hope I didn't give anyone the impression that I don't think Jack should be an LI in the game by my statements concerning her psychological issues or lack of them. If so, that was not my intention.

Personally I think this whole issue involving Jack's psyche, also serves to add more depth and interest to her character, and possibly more of an emotional attachment to her.

I lurk more than post, but I'm sure it's all fine and dandy.  I've never followed a thread as much as I do this one, and I'm not really of the in depth analysis kinda guy.  But reading the more active posters sure does provoke thought.  I feel this is appropriate:

[Jackal904]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I hope I didn't give anyone the impression that I don't think Jack should be an LI in the game by my statements concerning her psychological issues or lack of them. If so, that was not my intention.

Personally I think this whole issue involving Jack's psyche, also serves to add more depth and interest to her character, and possibly more of an emotional attachment to her.

I didn't think you were saying that at all. I've enjoyed this discussion about Jack's psyche. I think it's great that there are so many different aspects of Jack that we can have in-depth conversations about.

[gneissguy2003]

yorkj86 wrote...

Just a quick note: The Jack & Shepard picture I was talking about commissioning has a rough sketch now by the artist.

Would it be at all possible to have it posted up somewhere? I'm very curious as to how this artist will approach their relationship.