20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Mondo47]

Wow... it got deep in here while I was making Motivationals, attempting to derail a silly thread and trying to psych myself up to rewrite chapter 2 of NJ (had a fairly spectacular crash yesterday and had to perform a recovery... lost the chapter and now I've got to rewrite... grumblegrouse).

[Jackal904]

Haha yeah it did. Bummer about your computer crashing. Looking forward to chapter 2 of NJ .

Anyway. I was thinking about how Samara says she would try and kill renegade Shepard if they cross paths again in the future. What's to stop her from trying to kill Jack after her oath to Shepard is up? Jack's criminal history isn't a secret. Gabby (chick down in engineering) mentions to Ken that Jack is a murderer. And everyone on the ship is scared of Jack. So I think it's safe to say everyone knows about the crimes Jack has commited, including Samara. It would be really interesting in the beginning of ME3 when Samara isn't sworn to you anymore, if she then tries to arrest or kill Jack. That could be a moment where you have to take one of their sides or use charm or intimidate to end the arguement without taking anyone's side, although I hate those moments...

[axl99]

Samara to me comes across as someone who would be compelled to stop a crime happening in front of her if she isn't chasing down any remaining Ardat Yakshi. Otherwise I don't see her taking any issue with Jack or anyone else on Shepard's team, either for personal reasons, her oaths or her code.

But you'd have to argue that Thane may also have a bone to pick with Jack because of that incident with a Turian spaceship crashing into one of Kahje's moons. He hasn't said a thing about it though.

Let's remember something important here. Jack's done her time in Purgatory, and risked her life in the suicide mission. In exchange for all the lives she's taken, Jack helped save billions more.

Maybe it won't add up to much considering her personality, but I'd like to think that her actions speak louder than her words. Although on certain playthroughs she will say she "wasn't supposed to care" about the whole suicide mission shebang. That whole incident with the Turian spaceship happened because she wanted to avenge the outlaw colony who took her in. That suggests a strong sense of justice in an eye for an eye kinda way.

We see Jack fessing up to her past throughout the whole game, we see her admitting how much it caught up to her. And maybe we'll even see more ugly things rearing their heads her way in the third game. I dunno.

If Samara can empathize with that, awesome. If not, it's a damn crying shame her code is so ass backwards that it doesn't believe in the concept of redemption.

Modifié par axl99, 16 avril 2010 - 02:38 .

[gneissguy2003]

axl99 wrote...

Samara to me comes across as someone who would be compelled to stop a crime happening in front of her if she isn't chasing down any remaining Ardat Yakshi. Otherwise I don't see her taking any issue with Jack or anyone else on Shepard's team, either for personal reasons, her oaths or her code.

But you'd have to argue that Thane may also have a bone to pick with Jack because of that incident with a Turian spaceship crashing into one of Kahje's moons. He hasn't said a thing about it though.

Let's remember something important here. Jack's done her time in Purgatory, and risked her life in the suicide mission. In exchange for all the lives she's taken, Jack helped save billions more.

Maybe it won't add up to much considering her personality, but I'd like to think that her actions speak louder than her words. Although on certain playthroughs she will say she "wasn't supposed to care" about the whole suicide mission shebang. That whole incident with the Turian spaceship happened because she wanted to avenge the outlaw colony who took her in. That suggests a strong sense of justice in an eye for an eye kinda way.

We see Jack fessing up to her past throughout the whole game, we see her admitting how much it caught up to her. And maybe we'll even see more ugly things rearing their heads her way in the third game. I dunno.

If Samara can empathize with that, awesome. If not, it's a damn crying shame her code is so ass backwards that it doesn't believe in the concept of redemption.

Well, remember that our understanding of the Justicar code is rather miniscule. I'll think you're assuming that the Justicar code finds any form of injustice to be punishable by death, and I don't honestly think that's true. Injustice takes many forms, large and small. Samara's code contains over 5000 sutras covering practically any possible situation she could encounter. I'm betting the severity of the punishments adjusts somewhat for each potential transgression. The way I see it, the Code isn't about redemption or damnation, but rather about ensuring that those who cause injustice are shown that there are consequences for their actions.

I think that mindset is something that Jack might actually be able to not only understand but even empathize with. Think about some of the stories she tells about her past and how she reacted to people's treatment of her. The turians who destroyed the commune she joined? She avenged them. The couple that used her and tried to cut her out of the deals they made? She offs them. The cult that tried to use her for their own ends to get what they wanted? They're history. Jack, in a twisted sort of way, follows a similar moral code: if you mistreat her or those she cares for, then you'd better be ready for one hell of a fight.

Modifié par gneissguy2003, 16 avril 2010 - 03:08 .

[Jackal904]

axl99 wrote...

Samara to me comes across as someone who would be compelled to stop a crime happening in front of her if she isn't chasing down any remaining Ardat Yakshi. Otherwise I don't see her taking any issue with Jack or anyone else on Shepard's team, either for personal reasons, her oaths or her code.

Well she does say that she hopes she doesn't cross paths with Shepard in the future because she will have to kill him. She didn't say she'll try and kill him if they cross paths and Shepard is doing something bad at that moment.
 
You make a good point about Thane having a problem with Jack crashing a space ship into a Hanar moon. But I don't think anyone except Shepard knows about that. But if Thane did found out, I wouldn't be surprised if he confronts Jack about it.

gneissguy2003 wrote...

I think that mindset is something that Jack might actually be able to not only understand but even empathize with. Think about some of the stories she tells about her past and how she reacted to people's treatment of her. The turians who destroyed the commune she joined? She avenged them. The couple that used her and tried to cut her out of the deals they made? She offs them. The cult that tried to use her for their own ends to get what they wanted? They're history. Jack, in a twisted sort of way, follows a similar moral code: if you mistreat her or those she cares for, then you'd better be ready for one hell of a fight.

Hmmm, that's a very interesting point.

Modifié par Jackal904, 16 avril 2010 - 03:02 .

[adriano_c]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Samara's code contains over 5000 chakras...

Sutras.

[gneissguy2003]

adriano_c wrote...

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Samara's code contains over 5000 chakras...

Sutras.

My bad....

Went back and fixed it.

Modifié par gneissguy2003, 16 avril 2010 - 03:09 .

[Jackal904]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

Well, remember that our understanding of the Justicar code is rather miniscule. I'll think you're assuming that the Justicar code finds any form of injustice to be punishable by death, and I don't honestly think that's true.

I am currently starting Samara's loyalty mission, and the officer that you first talk to says that a justicar would die without hesitation to uphold the Code. And she also says, "If someone tried to bribe her, she'd be obliged to gun them down as a matter of honor." Sooo, yeah. She even says that most of the time she kills the criminals she encounters. Samara would like Singapore (In Singapore you get 80 lashings for creating graffiti).

Modifié par Jackal904, 16 avril 2010 - 03:10 .

[axl99]

If Jack and Samara are with you on Illium, check out the vista.

Jack mentions how the trading floor is filled with soft people who'd make great targets, in the context of theft/extortion. Samara replies that she would be compelled to stop Jack if she were to do anything illegal in front of her.

Modifié par axl99, 16 avril 2010 - 03:25 .

[Jackal904]

axl99 wrote...

If Jack and Samara are with you on Illium, check out the vista.

Jack mentions how the trading floor is filled with soft people who'd make great targets, in the context of theft/extortion. Samara replies that she would be compelled to stop Jack if she were to do anything illegal in front of her.

Haha yeah. I love Jack's reponse, she chuckles and says, "That would be interesting."

[gneissguy2003]

Jackal904 wrote...

axl99 wrote...

If Jack and Samara are with you on Illium, check out the vista.

Jack mentions how the trading floor is filled with soft people who'd make great targets, in the context of theft/extortion. Samara replies that she would be compelled to stop Jack if she were to do anything illegal in front of her.

Haha yeah. I love Jack's reponse, she chuckles and says, "That would be interesting."

Now there's a fight that would be spectacular to watch..... from, like, 5 miles away.

[axl99]

Samara makes mention that she will ignore the individual inside a criminal, by that I mean she said she will bring a murderer to justice regardless if he is actually a loving father.

The Eclipse merc? Killed when non-subtle forms of interrogation involving physical harm had failed. The villagers Morinth brainwashed into buying more time to excape? Samara killed them all and left the kids in protective custody. Nihilus? Well he died much later on of course, but Samara was willing to kill him for offing an unarmed individual while on the job as a Spectre. Detective Anaya? Samara's code will force the justicar to kill her too if she got in her way just for trying to do her job. Shepard? Well y'know the drill.

See? Lots of killing intent right there. It's not like Samara is a cold-hearted code-abiding killing machine of course if we were to go on her responses to Morinth's death. But still something to consider.

But on the topic of Jack and Samara in a fight? Jack might have the sheer raw biotic power that rivals that of a 600 year old asari Justicar, but she ain't got a few centuries' worth of combat experience under her belt.

Now if there's the remote chance Samara starts teaching Jack how to control her biotic power, be afraid, be very afraid.

Modifié par axl99, 16 avril 2010 - 03:33 .

[axl99]

I dunno, maybe it's because Jack's paragon lets Shepard finally be on top?  All the other females owned his ass in their scenes and simply had their way with him. [/light-hearted-sarcasm]

For one, we see Jack's openly vulnerable side. Two, she trusts Shepard enough to let him have his way with her, and ultimately ends up cuddling the whole way through instead of doing the deed because they might not be able to if they screw up the big mission. Third, she got the most amount of kissing outta that dude in her scenes.

Modifié par axl99, 16 avril 2010 - 04:06 .

[Jackal904]

axl99 wrote...

Now if there's the remote chance Samara starts teaching Jack how to control her biotic power, be afraid, be very afraid.

I was thinking that Samara and Jack could get together and super poo- I mean meditate together. Samara could help Jack hone and improve her biotics. That would be pretty kool. The two super biotics getting together to become even superer...er.

JohnnyDollar wrote...

So, is the general consensus here that the Jack love scene with tears rolling down her face the most emotional and dramatic of all of the love scenes in ME2? At least concerning MaleShep's LI's anyway?

Imo, yes, by far.

Modifié par Jackal904, 16 avril 2010 - 04:08 .

[GodWood]

@ Axl, I personally role-play that in the paragon romance they did not have sex at all.
But I guess thats up to the interpretation of the player.

[adriano_c]

I'm of the belief they didn't have sex, as well.

[Jackal904]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Is Miranda's sex scene the only one ine the game that could truly be interpreted as involving intercourse?

Well I'd say Tali's and Jacob's involves sex. And Garrus', since his entire romance subplot revolves around femShep just wanting to have sex with him.

Modifié par Jackal904, 16 avril 2010 - 05:34 .

[Mak999]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Is Miranda's sex scene the only one ine the game that could truly be interpreted as involving intercourse?

Any of these scenes may not be sexual intercourse:
1. Tali takes only a mask.
2. Miranda shows underwear.
I think that in this stage, each player is what he prefers. in my opinion most of you decided that Jack and Shepard was nothing except kissing. I think that the sexual act before the suicide mission they had.

Modifié par Mak999, 16 avril 2010 - 05:46 .

[Torrential]

Mak999 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Is Miranda's sex scene the only one ine the game that could truly be interpreted as involving intercourse?

Any of these scenes may not be sexual intercourse:
1. Tali takes only a mask.
2. Miranda shows underwear.
I think that in this stage, each player is what he prefers. in my opinion most of you decided that Jack and Shepard was nothing except kissing. I think that the sexual act before the suicide mission they had.

I'm going to have to disagree here, most of the romances in my mind were sex, having the last blowout before everything went to hell. I can relate to that, I think many people in those kinds of charged situations, if charged feelings are involved, would just let themselves be caught up in events to distract themselves from what was coming, or just because they had nothing to lose.

[BobbyTheI]

Honestly, my interpretation is that all except Jack ended in sex.  The only one that's sorta borderline is Tali, but I seriously doubt she'd go to all the trouble of researching and taking antibiotics if all they were gonna do is make out.  That said, I could see how somebody could interpret the Jack relationship as ending in sex, too; the fact that they're still clothed in bed at the end could be chalked up to the game mechanics, and not having a nude model for the two of them.

In the end, I guess it's up to your own interpretation.  If somebody feels like Shep and Jack got busy, that's their prerogative, just as much as they can decide FemShep and Garrus just snuggled, or whatever Turians do   The devs have said as much regarding Kelly's "dinner," and you interpreting how far it went, so I guess the rest could be interpreted however you want, too.

(OT: I already posted this on my audio edit thread, but this made my night so much, I had to post it here too.  Unlike in ME2, in ME1 they must have had Mark and Jennifer read every line, and kept it on the disc.  I can only imagine the look on Mark's face after he had to read this.)