20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Ultai]

Infiltrator Shep might win on reach, but I think a more interesting scenario would be adept Shep vs Jack.

[Mkrgross]

I wanted to chime in on this Samara vs. Jack scenario. If they fought, Jack would be in survival mode. If history has taught us anything, those people/countries fighting for their survival have a way of winning. Since we all can almost agree on that Samara and Jack are close to equals when it comes to pure Biotic Power, I would always put my money on the one who is fighting for survival. Samara would be the invading country, not an ideal position in this supposed fight. To try to compare this fight to an organized tournament fight, (ie. boxing, mma, etc.), isn't feasible. (Personel pet peave of mine BTW, street fighting vs. tourament fighting 2 different things). The only legitimate comparisons would be duels on the battle field, which unfortunately we have none documented to compare to, and other street fights where survival means winning, again no real documentation on those, for obvious reasons.

Just my 2 cents.

[Anoleis]

Mkrgross wrote...

I wanted to chime in on this Samara vs. Jack scenario. If they fought, Jack would be in survival mode. If history has taught us anything, those people/countries fighting for their survival have a way of winning. Since we all can almost agree on that Samara and Jack are close to equals when it comes to pure Biotic Power, I would always put my money on the one who is fighting for survival. Samara would be the invading country, not an ideal position in this supposed fight. To try to compare this fight to an organized tournament fight, (ie. boxing, mma, etc.), isn't feasible. (Personel pet peave of mine BTW, street fighting vs. tourament fighting 2 different things). The only legitimate comparisons would be duels on the battle field, which unfortunately we have none documented to compare to, and other street fights where survival means winning, again no real documentation on those, for obvious reasons.

Just my 2 cents.

Seems reasonable, I was thinking it would go somthing like the Samara/Morinth battle...who would win...I'm not very sure about that..

[Jackal904]

Ilzairspar wrote...

OK here we go with my IMHO.

Samara has no reason to kill Jack after she is no longer sworn to Shepard for one reason.

Shepard got Jack from Purgatory, a prison.  Therefore she was paying for all her previous crimes when she was recruited.  Since she has already paid for her previous crimes, Jack would need to break NEW crimes for Samara to have to go after her.  

Keep Jack out of "trouble" and no fighting after the fact.  Pragia doesn't count because no one owned it anymore and the mercs shot first.

Yeah, that makes sense. Well I think that pretty much clears it up then. Nice catch.

Ultai wrote...

Infiltrator Shep might win on reach, but I think a more interesting scenario would be adept Shep vs Jack.

Well Jack is said to be the most powerful human biotic. Not the most powerful human biotic except Shepard. I think the only type of Shepard that would stand a chance against Jack would be a vangaurd. A vangaurd would have biotics to help defend against Jack's biotics and he would also have better weapons training than an adept. Plus charge kicks ass.

[Mkrgross]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Mkrgross wrote...
I wanted to chime in on this Samara vs. Jack scenario. If they fought, Jack would be in survival mode. If history has taught us anything, those people/countries fighting for their survival have a way of winning. Since we all can almost agree on that Samara and Jack are close to equals when it comes to pure Biotic Power, I would always put my money on the one who is fighting for survival. Samara would be the invading country, not an ideal position in this supposed fight. To try to compare this fight to an organized tournament fight, (ie. boxing, mma, etc.), isn't feasible. (Personel pet peave of mine BTW, street fighting vs. tourament fighting 2 different things). The only legitimate comparisons would be duels on the battle field, which unfortunately we have none documented to compare to, and other street fights where survival means winning, again no real documentation on those, for obvious reasons.

Just my 2 cents.

I would think that they both would be in survival mode IMO.

When Germany and Japan lost the war in WWII, they were both fighting for their survival.  Both became even more fanatical in their methods and tactics as matters grew more desperate for them.   

I do not see Samara in survival mode, Jack has no reason to pick a fight, Samara would have to initiate it, hence the reason I believe Jack is in survival mode and Samara the aggressor.

Germany was the invading country, that could have changed towards the end, but Germany wound up spreading itself too thin. Which is not something Jack or Samara suffer from. Japan again was an invading country, but in the end of that fight, you are right, they were fighting for survival. An interesting side note about Japan, their "Code" ultimately did them in, kind of. Japan only lost that fight cause they did not have the firepower the United Sataes had, which is not what Jack or Samara have an issue with, they are close equals in firepower.

Modifié par Mkrgross, 16 avril 2010 - 09:28 .

[adriano_c]

Japan lost the Pacific war because of a few very, very, very "chancey" incidents, actually.

[Mkrgross]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Mkrgross wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Mkrgross wrote...
I wanted to chime in on this Samara vs. Jack scenario. If they fought, Jack would be in survival mode. If history has taught us anything, those people/countries fighting for their survival have a way of winning. Since we all can almost agree on that Samara and Jack are close to equals when it comes to pure Biotic Power, I would always put my money on the one who is fighting for survival. Samara would be the invading country, not an ideal position in this supposed fight. To try to compare this fight to an organized tournament fight, (ie. boxing, mma, etc.), isn't feasible. (Personel pet peave of mine BTW, street fighting vs. tourament fighting 2 different things). The only legitimate comparisons would be duels on the battle field, which unfortunately we have none documented to compare to, and other street fights where survival means winning, again no real documentation on those, for obvious reasons.

Just my 2 cents.

I would think that they both would be in survival mode IMO.

When Germany and Japan lost the war in WWII, they were both fighting for their survival.  Both became even more fanatical in their methods and tactics as matters grew more desperate for them.   

Germany was the invading country, that could have changed towards the end, but Germany wound up spreading itself too thin. Which is not something Jack or Samara suffer from. Japan again was an invading country, but in the end of that fight, you are right, they were fighting for survival. An interesting side note about Japan, their "Code" ultimately did them in, kind of. Japan only lost that fight cause they did not have the firepower the United Sataes had, which is not what Jack or Samara have an issue with, they are close equals in firepower.

So your analogy puts Samara as the invader, since she is the upholder of the code then? 

Correct, I went back to add that little bit. Jack has no reason to go after Samara, so Samara would have to be the aggressor in the fight, of course I basing this on if Samara's code dictates her to go after Jack, which I think we established she probably would not. That being the case I think it would be a toss up, kind of like the Samara/Morinth fight.

[Jackal904]

Morinth was fighting for survival and Samara was fighting for justice, and look how that turned out. They are equal in power too.

Modifié par Jackal904, 16 avril 2010 - 09:40 .

[Jackal904]

Iron Man195 wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Morinth was fighting for survival and Samara was fighting for justice, and look how that turned out. They are equal in power too.

What do you mean? It all depends on who Shepherd chooses to help, before that it was a stalemate.

That's not true. The only time Shepard gets to choose is if you choose the final charm/intimidate option. If you choose the, 'Cannot think..." dialogue option, Samara kills Morinth and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Mkrgross]

Jackal904 wrote...

Iron Man195 wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Morinth was fighting for survival and Samara was fighting for justice, and look how that turned out. They are equal in power too.

What do you mean? It all depends on who Shepherd chooses to help, before that it was a stalemate.

That's not true. The only time Shepard gets to choose is if you choose the final charm/intimidate option. If you choose the, 'Cannot think..." dialogue option, Samara kills Morinth and there's nothing you can do about it.

True, but I think that was more for story sake and not an actual outcome of a real fight btw the too. IMO.

I would like to believe Jack would win a straight one-on-one fight with Samara. Samara has experience yes, but I also think she has never fought a human as powerful as Jack, who might be and could be as powerful as her, or any asari she faced before. Jack unpredictableness, (is that a word) could be the deciding factor.

[adriano_c]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

adriano_c wrote...

Japan lost the Pacific war because of a few very, very, very "chancey" incidents, actually.

The U.S. had superior intelligence and chance also played a role.  With that said though, Japan didn't have the resources either way.  If the U.S. had not cracked the Japanese code and lost at say "Midway" for example, the war would have dragged on further with more casualities on both sides.  IMO though, Japan didn't have the resources or the production to outlast the U.S. 

Edit:  Of course we can't forget who had the bomb first either.

Well, Nagumo getting cold feet and not doing the full deed at Pearl Harbour was really the beginning of the end. He stays the course, the US navy and its foothold are irrevocably crippled from the off, Japan secures all the resources it needs, consolidates, etc. Midway, as a result, never happens the way history records. It's really a cascade of miscues from there, in addition to all the undermining going on in both their govt and military. This subject is bringing back bad memories of uni and procrastinating, lol (I wrote a 35 pager on this very topic).

Anyway, I was meaning to bring up Morinth, as well. She indeed fights for her very survival, and despite Samara's vaunted "cool and calculating nerve in battle", it was a stalement decided by an outside factor (Shepard). This further convinces me that Samara wouldn't simply dipose of Jack, especially not because some "Justicar" quality.

Advantage Jack! In my mind, at least!

[adriano_c]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
It may also have a little to do with "who likes which character better" also.:innocent:

I think I'm fairly impartial as I really like both characters!

[GodWood]

So its official, Jack and Samara fans united?

[gneissguy2003]

GodWood wrote...

So its official, Jack and Samara fans united?

I don't know about that. If nothing else, there's a good amount of crossover for some of us. I'd say there are definitely some Samara fans who don't like Jack and possibly some Jack fans who aren't too keen on Samara.

Still... it's been kind of cool to see the discussion between the two groups of fans. It added some rather fun spice to the thread.

Modifié par gneissguy2003, 16 avril 2010 - 10:58 .

[Jackal904]

Thinking about both characters' cutscene powers, I'd be inclined to say Jack would win. Samara talks about breaking out of a local police station and possibly dieing from that. Jack rips through 3 ymir mechs and a space station full of gaurds and prisoners and she's still ready for more.

But about Samara breaking out of that police station, it's one thing I never understood. She says that she has a better chance of surviving by going with Shepard and trying to take out the freaking collectors' HQ, than breaking out of some local police station. I think I'd take my chances with the police station...

Modifié par Jackal904, 16 avril 2010 - 11:04 .