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[gneissguy2003]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

gneissguy2003 wrote...
One of the things that always bothers me is when people assume that a "Renegade" Shepard would be alone and keep the Collector base while a "Paragon" Shepard would save everyone he could and destroy the base. It doesn't seem like a lot of people try to play with nuance in their playthroughs.

For example, I completed a playthrough a few days ago of a Shepard that I tried to follow my own morals as closely as possible. Saying that, he is more or less Paragon, but I let the Council die in ME1 in order to focus on the true threat that was Sovereign with the full might of the Alliance Fleet, but also because their ignorance made my selfShep feel like they were just a bunch of morons working towards their own interests instead of those of the galaxy at large. I also blew up the Collector base at the end of ME2 because I just don't trust Cerberus no matter how much TIM reminds me it was his cash that brought me back. To add even more spice to him, I gave up the evidence about Tali's dad on her loyalty mission because I believe that "honesty is the best policy."

Another example is the femShep I'm playing now. She's a Renegade, but mostly because she's a hardass and really doesn't like it when people give her ****. However, she's loyal to those that are loyal to her, and helps those who can't defend themselves from oppressive douchebags. She killed off the Council in ME1, but she has no love of Cerberus and I'm leaning towards blowing up the Collector base in the end because she knows that TIM is a manipulative bastard and she'd rather not see him get something that powerful and screw everyone over like he almost certainly would.

Now, think about your own nuanced playthroughs. I personally think Bioware has a rather daunting task ahead of themselves in order to make even those "mixed" playthroughs feel unique.

Let us hope that Bioware can satisfactorily handle this.
IMO Paragade is more realistic for my Shep.

I have a feeling though, that the paragade will get the shaft to a lesser degree than the full blood renegade, but still will not be rewarded satisfactorily none the less.

The full blooded paragon however, will be prancing through a field of flowers with all of the other races around a campfire singing kumbia at the end ME3.  The perfect Hollywood fairy tale ending to the trilogy I am afraid.

What I think would be AMAZING would be if a pure Paragon (or damn close to it) Shepard, meaning a Shepard that always chose the Paragon options and did almost no Renegade choices, was punished for.... I don't know, the only thing that comes to mind is being "naive". If for no other reason than to make it not seem like Paragon is the obvious path to "success".  However, this would mean serious trouble for my canonShep who is pretty much like that. Still, though, I think it would make for a nice twist.

Or, if you really want to twist the knife after putting it in.... have Paragon Sheps kill themselves to save the galaxy while Renegade Sheps sacrifice a bunch of peeps (of their choosing) with the chance of an ending showing them with their LI.

Modifié par gneissguy2003, 17 avril 2010 - 08:50 .

[royceclemens]

gneissguy2003 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

gneissguy2003 wrote...
One of the things that always bothers me is when people assume that a "Renegade" Shepard would be alone and keep the Collector base while a "Paragon" Shepard would save everyone he could and destroy the base. It doesn't seem like a lot of people try to play with nuance in their playthroughs.

For example, I completed a playthrough a few days ago of a Shepard that I tried to follow my own morals as closely as possible. Saying that, he is more or less Paragon, but I let the Council die in ME1 in order to focus on the true threat that was Sovereign with the full might of the Alliance Fleet, but also because their ignorance made my selfShep feel like they were just a bunch of morons working towards their own interests instead of those of the galaxy at large. I also blew up the Collector base at the end of ME2 because I just don't trust Cerberus no matter how much TIM reminds me it was his cash that brought me back. To add even more spice to him, I gave up the evidence about Tali's dad on her loyalty mission because I believe that "honesty is the best policy."

Another example is the femShep I'm playing now. She's a Renegade, but mostly because she's a hardass and really doesn't like it when people give her ****. However, she's loyal to those that are loyal to her, and helps those who can't defend themselves from oppressive douchebags. She killed off the Council in ME1, but she has no love of Cerberus and I'm leaning towards blowing up the Collector base in the end because she knows that TIM is a manipulative bastard and she'd rather not see him get something that powerful and screw everyone over like he almost certainly would.

Now, think about your own nuanced playthroughs. I personally think Bioware has a rather daunting task ahead of themselves in order to make even those "mixed" playthroughs feel unique.

Let us hope that Bioware can satisfactorily handle this.
IMO Paragade is more realistic for my Shep.

I have a feeling though, that the paragade will get the shaft to a lesser degree than the full blood renegade, but still will not be rewarded satisfactorily none the less.

The full blooded paragon however, will be prancing through a field of flowers with all of the other races around a campfire singing kumbia at the end ME3.  The perfect Hollywood fairy tale ending to the trilogy I am afraid.

What I think would be AMAZING would be if a pure Paragon (or damn close to it) Shepard, meaning a Shepard that always chose the Paragon options and did almost no Renegade choices, was punished for.... I don't know, the only thing that comes to mind is being "naive". If for no other reason than to make it not seem like Paragon is the obvious path to "success".  However, this would mean serious trouble for my canonShep who is pretty much like that. Still, though, I think it would make for a nice twist.

Or, if you really want to twist the knife after putting it in.... have Paragon Sheps kill themselves to save the galaxy while Renegade Sheps sacrifice a bunch of peeps (of their choosing) with the chance of an ending showing them with their LI.

That would be equal parts devious and awesome.  It would also go over like a lead balloon with this unpleasable fanbase.

I don't know, I don't mind a fairy tale ending, as long as the story deserves it.  And this story?  Hoo-boy, does it deserve it.  And who's to say that Paragon choices won't have a negative impact?  We lied to the MIgrant Fleet, destroyed a very powerful weapon, Rana Thanoptis is still lurking around, we've singlehandedly saved two deeply homicidal species.  I'm expecting doom and gloom.

[adriano_c]

Agreed. Making the morally upright choice (paragon/"good") sometimes comes with a nasty end result. It'd be nice to see something like that in the third game. Blow up the base? Doom humanity to eternal subservience! Would certainly make things feel less black and white (read: boring and obvious).

[sm00thie88]

From my point of view choices you made in ME1&2 do not affect how part 3 will end. Why? Way too many options with the pure renegade, pure paragon and all the mixtures of paragade given. And bioware can't blame people for not letting race XY live or die, because no decision really is wrong, they are just different. So what I can see is the difference in the way to face the reapers. Paragons with Geth, Krogans and Rachni, Renegades with all badass attitude given (sacrifice a complete alliance fleet, whatever). So this is how decisions potentially could be handled. The only one really beeing able of changing how me3 ends are the ones you make in part 3. This is something bioware can take into account, everything else is not realistic, way too much collisions there.

[Ultai]

Well just finished my worst playthrough (every death stung haha).  Unlike my first playthrough where I managed to save everyone without spoilers (damn I felt proud) it actually felt like I had to work at it to get people killed.  I actually had Shep survive accidently since I had Mordin, Zaeed, and Samara holding the line, and Zaeed and Samara survived to pull me up even while not loyal. 

It sorta baffled me how I would read people were having alot of squad members die and see they were sending people like Thane into the vent shaft or having Grunt lead a fire team...I think the only one that gave me pause was deciding who would escort the crew back, and I almost selected Zaeed to lead a fire team.

I'll have to tweak a few things and get Morinth and perhaps Zaeed again to survive while everyone else dies for my worst import.  Then use some mouth wash to get the bad taste out of my mouth.

An interesting note...if Jack is dead while everyone is in the meeting room, Garrus will tell Miranda he doesn't want her leading and half  the squad doesn't trust her.  Always thought he was disagreeing with Jack when he shook his head when she said it

[Mondo47]

royceclemens wrote...

gneissguy2003 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

gneissguy2003 wrote...
One of the things that always bothers me is when people assume that a "Renegade" Shepard would be alone and keep the Collector base while a "Paragon" Shepard would save everyone he could and destroy the base. It doesn't seem like a lot of people try to play with nuance in their playthroughs.

For example, I completed a playthrough a few days ago of a Shepard that I tried to follow my own morals as closely as possible. Saying that, he is more or less Paragon, but I let the Council die in ME1 in order to focus on the true threat that was Sovereign with the full might of the Alliance Fleet, but also because their ignorance made my selfShep feel like they were just a bunch of morons working towards their own interests instead of those of the galaxy at large. I also blew up the Collector base at the end of ME2 because I just don't trust Cerberus no matter how much TIM reminds me it was his cash that brought me back. To add even more spice to him, I gave up the evidence about Tali's dad on her loyalty mission because I believe that "honesty is the best policy."

Another example is the femShep I'm playing now. She's a Renegade, but mostly because she's a hardass and really doesn't like it when people give her ****. However, she's loyal to those that are loyal to her, and helps those who can't defend themselves from oppressive douchebags. She killed off the Council in ME1, but she has no love of Cerberus and I'm leaning towards blowing up the Collector base in the end because she knows that TIM is a manipulative bastard and she'd rather not see him get something that powerful and screw everyone over like he almost certainly would.

Now, think about your own nuanced playthroughs. I personally think Bioware has a rather daunting task ahead of themselves in order to make even those "mixed" playthroughs feel unique.

Let us hope that Bioware can satisfactorily handle this.
IMO Paragade is more realistic for my Shep.

I have a feeling though, that the paragade will get the shaft to a lesser degree than the full blood renegade, but still will not be rewarded satisfactorily none the less.

The full blooded paragon however, will be prancing through a field of flowers with all of the other races around a campfire singing kumbia at the end ME3.  The perfect Hollywood fairy tale ending to the trilogy I am afraid.

What I think would be AMAZING would be if a pure Paragon (or damn close to it) Shepard, meaning a Shepard that always chose the Paragon options and did almost no Renegade choices, was punished for.... I don't know, the only thing that comes to mind is being "naive". If for no other reason than to make it not seem like Paragon is the obvious path to "success".  However, this would mean serious trouble for my canonShep who is pretty much like that. Still, though, I think it would make for a nice twist.

Or, if you really want to twist the knife after putting it in.... have Paragon Sheps kill themselves to save the galaxy while Renegade Sheps sacrifice a bunch of peeps (of their choosing) with the chance of an ending showing them with their LI.

That would be equal parts devious and awesome.  It would also go over like a lead balloon with this unpleasable fanbase.

I don't know, I don't mind a fairy tale ending, as long as the story deserves it.  And this story?  Hoo-boy, does it deserve it.  And who's to say that Paragon choices won't have a negative impact?  We lied to the MIgrant Fleet, destroyed a very powerful weapon, Rana Thanoptis is still lurking around, we've singlehandedly saved two deeply homicidal species.  I'm expecting doom and gloom.

I've got one thing to say on the subject of self-sacrifice...

Dear BioWare,

After playing through Dragon Age: Origins, I have one tiny, small request for how you intend to play out the ending of Mass Effect 3. Now, I don't mind a good noble sacrifice, especially if it's in keeping with the overall tone of the story (an example that immediately springs to mind is the conclusion of Prince of Darkness) - one person must trade their life for that of their friends/race/world/galaxy. It's suitably epic.

But, I do not want to play a game for 60 hours to find that I have ten more to play knowing that I have to die. Sorry, but if you butt**** me like that again in a game, I will come to your office and ****** through the letterbox (no mean feat, but I promise you, I'll manage it somehow). And if I've had to play through three games only to become your story-b*tch again, I'll be suitably unimpressed to actually start avoiding your future titles in case you intend to throw me over the proverbial prison bunk and assbang me like your name is Big Bubba Squaredick. I'll try anything once, but if I don't like it, well, no means no, ok?

I am all for concequences. I am all for big things. I am not a fan of someone acting like my friend for a year only to steal all my DVDs and burn my house down because I didn't agree with their morality. I'm not saying make it all sunshine and bunnies, all I'm saying is cut us a little slack. At least make a reasonable ending attainable; don't give me another Baby Cthulhu getout clause either, because that's just moral poison or the kind of copout only a teenage boy would jump at.

Reward us. Maybe make us work for the reward, but please, don't douse me with gasoline again and then taunt me with matches.

Love and hugs,

Those of us that don't think All Happy Endings Suck All The Time

[adriano_c]

Should have taken Morrigan's deal.

[royceclemens]

Indeed, Mondo. I felt ripped off playing FALLOUT 3 pulling that crap, and it went over so well that they charged us all ten dollars to fix it.

So imagine my chagrin when scant months after that, BioWare pulls the exact same gimmick. It's tired. It's played out. It's not surprising and it don't fly no more.

They develop games like this with the idea that the player can be whoever they want to be. Who do I want to be? THE GUY THAT SAVES THE UNIVERSE! I want to be the guy who ushers in an era of peace between two races that have hated each other for three centuries. I want to be the guy who brings fertility back to one gutted race and a chance at redemption at another that's almost extinct. I want to be the guy who pulls the Deus-Ex-Machina sword out of the Plot stone and stops a fleet of sentient cyborg Cthulus from wiping out any form of life that can form a sentence.

And last, but certainly not least, I want to be the guy who finds the nearest sunset and rides into it with his bald, tattooed, ex-convict girlfriend.

I've played the same twenty hour ME playthrough and the same thirty hour ME2 playthrough countless times. I've worked long and hard for my happy ending. And I will go permanently cross-eyed if the games about blue alien strippers, sterile dinosaurs and robotic slavemaster octopi suddenly lurches towards "realism" and "ambiguity" at the very end.

Modifié par royceclemens, 17 avril 2010 - 10:20 .

[adriano_c]

Seemed like a Tourette-like outburst, nothing more...

[sm00thie88]

I don't think they're going down the self-sacrifice path again. As royce said, and as I quote bioware "Your decision do matter", and this is what we get. But I will not hope for a solution that includes all choices from part 1 and 2, as said, the way and the support bringing into the final battle will be a summary of these choices, but the outcome will be based on choices made in me3.

[Booglarize]

yfhfrg wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
Not yours!  Cannot have!    Dragon Age: Awakening!

what? I haven't played awakening yet. Are you saying I can't play it if I did the self-sacrifice?

No, you can play - it's just that if you choose to import a sacrificed character, the "Ultimate Sacrifice" ending from Origins gets retconned away ("handwaved", as they put it in the FAQ), and you're treated as if you survived. They don't even bother trying to justify it plot-wise. 

Modifié par Booglarize, 19 avril 2010 - 08:19 .

[sm00thie88]

yorkj86 wrote...

yfhfrg wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
Not yours!  Cannot have!    Dragon Age: Awakening!

what? I haven't played awakening yet. Are you saying I can't play it if I did the self-sacrifice?

I'm not going to say anything more, then.   I'd be spoiling it.

Boolgarize already did it

[Chaos-fusion]

The ME trilogy has been marketed as realistic, and dark. .. That means Sheperd sacrificing him/herself at the ending is, pretty much an inevitable choice. They can make previous decision have real consequences (Something like all the choices on the suicide mission, but on a galactic scale - No ship armour = Jack killed, translating to Rachni Live = They get re-indoctrinated and attack the Turians, or.. something ), but no doubt they'll go for 100% paragons get the bestest ending with rainbows, and bunnies (yay!) or self-sacrifice endings. At least, that's what my money is on.

.. And I can't believe I missed the Jack vs. Samara debate, gah! My two favourite biotic lasses pitted against each other and I was too busy.

LiquidGrape wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

*Snip*
I'd like to thank Bobby, yet again

He has provided us with an endless supply of puns on this subject, hasn't he?

I'm waiting for use of Jack's "Rough stuff. I like it" line.

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 17 avril 2010 - 10:46 .

[royceclemens]

sm00thie88 wrote...

I don't think they're going down the self-sacrifice path again. As royce said, and as I quote bioware "Your decision do matter", and this is what we get. But I will not hope for a solution that includes all choices from part 1 and 2, as said, the way and the support bringing into the final battle will be a summary of these choices, but the outcome will be based on choices made in me3.

The level of choice in ME1 and ME2 has been illusory.  We haven't really been making big choices.  Rather, we've made a ton of little choices alongside ten or so big choices that very well could have an impact on the endgame.  The choices in ME3 in and of themselves may lead to a happy ending, but with the choices made in one and two, there could be a "happier" ending.  The fans are rewarded and the newer players (who have only played the default game) will either have incentive to pick up the last two games, or won't know any better.

Modifié par royceclemens, 17 avril 2010 - 10:42 .

[Mondo47]

adriano_c wrote...

Should have taken Morrigan's deal.

I'd rather have Scale Itch... nasty creepy b*tch.

Not wanting to tread this ground again, but as much as I thought Alistair was an annoying simp, I was not going to inflict her deal on him... it'd be like allowing someone to abuse a child because you find the kid irritating. And I was not about to allow that spineless little creep Loghain to retain any honor in death - I would have had his corpse strung up for the local necrophiles to play with for what he did if I could. So, gee wizz, because I don't have the magic sword to knock Miss Spooky up (not to mention her 'bargain' sounds like something so karma-toxic not even Faust would have bought that ****... I have to die. Thankew BioWare. Not.

And having being told that Awakening just says "Oh, it never happened - you can come back, you got better" to it all... sorry, respect lost. No replays. No buying expansions. My dog died of a broken heart, and for all her irritating supergirliness, my bard seemed to be going the same way. And I was loving the game right up until then. Best RPG I'd ever played... right up until the point it **** in my best shoes when I wasn't looking.

I do not (in big-ass neon letters) want to have that done to me again... sorry, I feel real strongly on this issue. As if you couldn't tell

[Booglarize]

sm00thie88 wrote...

Boolgarize already did it

Can it still be considered "spoiling" if it's something from a pre-release FAQ? Also, it has no real bearing on the actual story of Awakening - it's just a commentary on the lack of continuity from Origins.

Edit: And personally, I think this is one thing that everyone definitely should know before they play this expansion, lest they be even more disappointed once they actually get to it. This wasn't some surprise plot twist that had any actual purpose behind it - it was just something that they left out of the game due to laziness/rushed deadlines. 

Modifié par Booglarize, 17 avril 2010 - 10:54 .

[adriano_c]

Mondo47 wrote...

...nasty creepy b*tch.

And I was not about to allow that spineless little creep Loghain to retain any honor in death

I don't think Loghain dies if you send him to do the deed? Speaking of which, his being in the cutscene with her was absolutely hilarious to me. Pure sleaze.

I do not (in big-ass neon letters) want to have that done to me again... sorry, I feel real strongly on this issue. As if you couldn't tell

Someone of your "advanced standing" shouldn't get so worked up!