20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Jackal904]

Pacifien wrote...

Wonder if Warden Kuril intended to keep Jack in cryo forever. Wonder why he didn't put everyone in cryo. Maybe too expensive.

Probably because not everyone can destroy a space station with their mind. If Jack is conscious, she is deadly. They could hogtie her and it wouldn't matter. The only way to make her not dangerous without killing her is by keeping her unconscious. But they didn't keep her in cryo all the time on Purgatory, because she tells you about the time when she got jumped in the bathrooms on Purgatory. It would be really interesting to see her when she was serving time on Purgatory. Also I wonder how she got caught in the first place.

About Jack getting old. Considering all her physical trauma and the possible long term damage caused by it and all the drugs she was given, I don't think she'll get old enough to show significant signs of age. And there's that whole neural degeneration thing. Who knows when that will take a significant tole on her.

[Mondo47]

yfhfrg wrote...

Yeah, if you read the description for Jack's biotic boosting abilities it says she's suffering pretty strong neural degeneration as a result of what they did to her. The only strange thing is in her case, it's actually making her abilities more powerful. But her brain is still being eaten away by it.

Brains are funny things... you can get shot through them, you can lose a lot of them (I sorta know, friend-of-a-friend style, someone whose dad was shot in the head in the Falklands, and he literally has about 2/3rds of a brain - the rest ended up in his helmet), diseases can eat them and chemicals can rewire them, but they can keep ticking in some cases and still provide a normal life for those who have been otherwise impaired by brain damage. I imagine that even a couple of hundred years from now we'll still have no complete handle on how they do that electrochemical magic they do...

Besides, the codex entry on Grayboxes explains they were originally produced to augment the brains of advanced Alzheimers patients, so maybe there's stuff that could be done to slow down or halt any more persistant side effects.

Or maybe we can content ourselves with an original Marlowe-VO Blade Runner ending, where a love that burns so bright has to have an expiry date eventually - "... we didn't know how long we'd have, but then again, who does?"

Besides, giving someone as tough and downright in-your-face as Jack a fade-away ending... can't see it. Too cliche, and the girl herself wouldn't let it get that far. Better to burn out than to fade away and all that.

[Epantiras]

Mondo47 wrote...

Brains are funny things... you can get shot through them, you can lose a lot of them (I sorta know, friend-of-a-friend style, someone whose dad was shot in the head in the Falklands, and he literally has about 2/3rds of a brain - the rest ended up in his helmet), diseases can eat them and chemicals can rewire them, but they can keep ticking in some cases and still provide a normal life for those who have been otherwise impaired by brain damage. I imagine that even a couple of hundred years from now we'll still have no complete handle on how they do that electrochemical magic they do...

Reminds me of cases of honest people who had a particular part of their brain damaged (it was somewhere between the eyes IIRC) and after recovering they acted as if they lost their moral compass, therefore becoming drunkards, beating their own wife and children, stealing and so on. I'm not saying it's Jack's case, of course, but brains are weird for sure.

Uhm, I wonder the implications of using grayboxes or some other types of implants to fix Jack's brain. I also wonder why didn't Cerberus implant any kind of on/off device on her - as Miranda wanted to do to Shepard during the early stages of the Lazarus Project. Or maybe she DOES HAVE that think installed, that's how she got caught and ended up in Purgatory. But that doesn't explain her escape from the facility on Praja... the plot thickens!

[Jackal904]

Well that would be crazy if she had a control chip in her brain. If they put one in her brain then I don't think they would need to drug her and shock her to get her to kill other kids. They'd just flip a switch and off she would go.

[royceclemens]

Mondo47 wrote...

yfhfrg wrote...

Yeah, if you read the description for Jack's biotic boosting abilities it says she's suffering pretty strong neural degeneration as a result of what they did to her. The only strange thing is in her case, it's actually making her abilities more powerful. But her brain is still being eaten away by it.

Brains are funny things... you can get shot through them, you can lose a lot of them (I sorta know, friend-of-a-friend style, someone whose dad was shot in the head in the Falklands, and he literally has about 2/3rds of a brain - the rest ended up in his helmet), diseases can eat them and chemicals can rewire them, but they can keep ticking in some cases and still provide a normal life for those who have been otherwise impaired by brain damage. I imagine that even a couple of hundred years from now we'll still have no complete handle on how they do that electrochemical magic they do...

Besides, the codex entry on Grayboxes explains they were originally produced to augment the brains of advanced Alzheimers patients, so maybe there's stuff that could be done to slow down or halt any more persistant side effects.

Or maybe we can content ourselves with an original Marlowe-VO Blade Runner ending, where a love that burns so bright has to have an expiry date eventually - "... we didn't know how long we'd have, but then again, who does?"

Besides, giving someone as tough and downright in-your-face as Jack a fade-away ending... can't see it. Too cliche, and the girl herself wouldn't let it get that far. Better to burn out than to fade away and all that.

I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves a little.  If Jack slowly withers away from neural degeneration in-game, it's gonna come as one hell of a shock to people who didn't read the codex.  I very rarely read the codex as if I really needed to know it, it would actually be in the game.  But the neural degeneration hasn't been mentioned by any character in either game (bar hazy "side-effects" for Kaidan in ME1).

The fact of the matter is if it comes down to Jack dying because her brain petered out, then it'll come off as a narrative contrivance the kind of which I'm just not used to from BioWare.  I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely.

[Gethforceone]

It doesn't say anything about it affecting her other than it should be making her biotics weaker but instead, its making her stronger.

[Mondo47]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...
Besides, giving someone as tough and downright in-your-face as Jack a fade-away ending... can't see it. Too cliche, and the girl herself wouldn't let it get that far. Better to burn out than to fade away and all that.

Then what is the purpose of it from a writers perspective then?  To add depth with emotional connotations to the character?

For me, something like that gives your character a time limit to their existance they can react to; having X number of years/months/days left might force them to do things they'd put off doing, say things they'd been too afraid or unwilling to say. From my perspective as a writer, it's not going to happen overnight, there'd be signs, so Jack would have time to prepare, and would react accordingly. I doubt very much there'd be some tearful chick-flick hospital last-gasp scene (**** like that has no resonance other than to make an audience whose emotions have been toyed with an 'outlet' - I see it as rather cheap, a bit like OTT gore and T&A: makes you cry, makes you gag, makes you randy)... having an uncertain but knowingly finite future is more touching to me - hence my oft-decried opinion that the director's cut of Blade Runner is not worth my time or money. The Marlowe-VO spoke more to me than a pretty eye-roll-worthy shock at the end and editing in a couple of leftover scenes from Legend to make the film seem smarter than it had to be. I was happy with detective-noir in the future, not some bloated ramble about how Hans Moravec isn't a perv for wanting to **** robots... because robots are people too.

Something that takes away happy ever after and makes it into happy for now is superior, much more real, and thus much more emotional - at least to me.

Modifié par Mondo47, 20 avril 2010 - 07:16 .

[Epantiras]

Mondo47 wrote...
For me, something like that gives your character a time limit to their existance they can react to; having X number of years/months/days left might force them to do things they'd put off doing, say things they'd been too afraid or unwilling to say.

Don't forget that the "expiry date" is Thane's domain. My heart is still bleeding because of that, thank you Bioware ;-)

[Mondo47]

One for our special little girl...

[LiquidGrape]

Epantiras wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...
For me, something like that gives your character a time limit to their existance they can react to; having X number of years/months/days left might force them to do things they'd put off doing, say things they'd been too afraid or unwilling to say.

Don't forget that the "expiry date" is Thane's domain. My heart is still bleeding because of that, thank you Bioware ;-)

Somehow, I dread that Bioware might chicken out and give Thane a sample of the old "screw all, cure all" for ME3.
I hope not. But after the inconsistensies evident in Mass Effect 2, I wouldn't rule it out.

@Mondo

Love that. But isn't it rather ironic that one of the most meditative moments in the entire game is encountered during a mission involving Zaeed of all people?

[Jackal904]

Also it would be a little cheesy to have two characters with some terminal condition that'll cause them to die soon. I don't think it's anything we have to worry about. I bet it won't even be brought up in ME3, and I hope it won't be brought up in ME3.

[Epantiras]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Somehow, I dread that Bioware might chicken out and give Thane a sample of the old "screw all, cure all" for ME3.
I hope not. But after the inconsistensies evident in Mass Effect 2, I wouldn't rule it out.

@Mondo

Love that. But isn't it rather ironic that one of the most meditative moments in the entire game is encountered during a mission involving Zaeed of all people?

No, we all know that our ME2 squad members will disappear into a plot hole and Shepard will be left alone with Liara and the Virmire Survivor. Who, in my case, is Ashley

Talking about the waterfall shot, don't be surprised: Kasumi's mission had an alternate outfit for Shepard while Zaeed's had that wonderful dialogue cutscene that  yells TAKE SCREENSHOTS at you. Well, just like every time I see TIM, right before he starts talking. I hate him but damn, he knows how to look badass.

@ Mondo: I'm tempted to ask you to post a desktop-sized version of the waterfall shot. Thane and his '80s glasses have been sitting on my desktop for too long :innocent:

/off topic

[LiquidGrape]

Epantiras wrote...
Talking about the waterfall shot, don't be surprised: Kasumi's mission had an alternate outfit for Shepard while Zaeed's had that wonderful dialogue cutscene that  yells TAKE SCREENSHOTS at you.

Take screenshot?
Why,
If you insist.

[Mondo47]

Epantiras wrote...

@ Mondo: I'm tempted to ask you to post a desktop-sized version of the waterfall shot. Thane and his '80s glasses have been sitting on my desktop for too long :innocent:

Your wish is my command!

Oh look - I have two!

Modifié par Mondo47, 20 avril 2010 - 08:12 .

[Epantiras]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Take screenshot?
Why,
If you insist.

XD The third one! You do know how to surprise people


EDIT: Thanks Mondo

Modifié par Epantiras, 20 avril 2010 - 08:14 .

[Urdaniel]

First off, happy belated 200+ pages, folks.    Talk about picking up steam;  I didn't look at the thread for a little over half a day and all this stuff just popped up.   Post overload ftw - from screenshots and comic strips to more interesting discussions.  Who says you can't have quality and quantity?  So thanks to everyone for everything; I finally found something on the internet that's consistently entertaining and thought-provoking.  


And just to jump in on one aspect of the "neural degeneration" discussion for a bit, I'd frankly prefer that Bioware give all the characters some sort of attention, even if it means giving them an ending or resolution that's not entirely satisfying to their fans.  So long as it doesn't do too much violence to the essence of the character, it's infinitely better imo than just giving them a cameo and a few lines on a non-moving screen.  As the krogan say (and someone mentioned a couple of pages back), the worst insult is to be ignored.  Which is why I'm hoping EA gives Bioware the resources to give its flagship SF franchise (and the characters that make it so great) the sendoff it deserves in ME3.

[royceclemens]

yorkj86 wrote...
As an aside - I know I said it before, but almost everything about "Check My Brain"  by Alice In Chains reminds me of Jack.  Does anyone else hear it?

I'm getting a vibe.  But I'm thinking about The cover of "Happiness is a Warm Gun" by The Breeders myself.

[Rocket Weazle]

celebratory 200page pics!

[adriano_c]

That second one is kind of...manly.