20813 réponses à ce sujet

[ChampDude]

ZennExile wrote...

ChampDude wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

ChampDude wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Mkrgross wrote...

Ignore him.

Because I know the truth or because you fear it?

I have a question: Why are you on these forums if all you do is bash the game? Don't you have better things to do?

Why are you assuming because some random forum troll says something it's true?  Because they say it in a nice way?  I'm confused.  Don't you have a mind of your own?

Yeah, I do actually, and I have seen your posts for a while now. You are either complaining that the game isn't an RPG and a lame shooter, complaining how a certain character is poorly written or how a certain dialogue section is silly, or complaining that the main plot is weak. I have never once seen you saw a positive thing about anything Mass Effect related. What is your problem with this game? Has it hurt you personally?

You investigation didn't really take long did it?  Conclusions are better when you jump to them I know but only if you get it right the first time.  Hint: You're wrong. 

Oh how cute. Using a blanket statement to answer my question. How about you directly answer the question and tell me why you have such an rigorous hate for all things Mass Effect? Or, if you actually don't hate it, tell me why you choose to come into these threads that are obviously created with the intention for fans of a character to discuss what they like about them and spread hatred. What's the motive? Just to stir up some conflict? Because it's fun? Because I guarantee most people who actually don't like things tend to stay away from them. You know, there is this mechanism in pyshcology known as "Reaction Formation" in which someone displays an intense feeling, when in reality they are repressing what they truly feel. Maybe....you actually like Mass Effect and you would just don't know it yet

[ZennExile]

TobiasRieper wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

You never asked that question.  You told me that I think Miranda is deep and that's why I'm wrong but you never asked me a question. 

Really though the only character I found that "had layers like an onion" and wasn't completely transparent was Mordin.  He was the only character that didn't have transparent motives.  You can tell there is more to Mordin but much of his personality comes as a shock.  Like when he randomly starts singing...  They really did a great job giving Mordin depth without trying to force the impression on you.

Thane was also "deep" but it felt forced.  They could have explained less about Thane and he would have been a better character for the mystery of it.  Like his spiritual nature or attachment to his family.

Jack is completely transparent on the opposite end of the scale.  There is never a point where I wonder how she might react or I am shocked by the depth of her character.  From start to finish you know exactly what you have is a stereotypical teenage girl with angst over a terrible childhood that wants everyone to think she's the victim.  Her character was made even less appealing by the fact that they made her all but naked in an attempt to force appeal for an otherwise lackluster personality.

I asked the exact same question on the last page. I didn't even insinuate that you thought Miranda was deep. Maybe you're confusing me with another poster (or you're just making stuff up).

Anyway, Mordin was indeed a great character, but I'll have to disagree on Thane being less transparant than Jack. He is also a very stereotypical character, the basic 'religious hitman with a family' story. However, I don't think he's a bad character, stereotypes are used in stories because we usually like them. And if one person disagrees, it doesn't matter, more will. It's not because I know what's under the onion's outer layer that it doesn't have multiple ones, it's that I know what an onion is built like.

The comparison with a stereotypical teenage girl with angst doesn't apply though, because in those cases their rage, fear and sadness is unjustified, here it actually is. She is a victim, denying that would be highly immoral or just blind of you.

And the fact that she's naked is in order for players to see her tattoo's which are a large part of the 'feel' which the writers wanted to give the character.

And now I'll just stop trying, seeing how you're mistaking subjective beauty, attraction, likability and interest, with objective facts. You're too ignorant to even being made clear that other people have the right to disagree with you. We'll just have to agree to disagree, although clearly you'll have more problems with that, than I will.

I also apologise to the other people in this thread for responding over and over if it annoyed them. I still think it wasn't a complete waste of time (had a chance to think about the characters in the game and a bit of excercice for my english). So I'll stop responding to ZennExile now, I still have other things to do.

See I don't get this part.  Why is it that Jack fans are unable to see how she develops as a character is focused around her understanding she has a choice of whether or not to be a victim.  She is absolutley the stereotypical teenage girl with angst.  She feels her memories (which are mostly FALSE) justify her bat**** crazy, but when you explore her character you discover she is just a little girl pretending to be tough based on delusions she has forced herself to believe.  She even tells you specifically that she's always been a victim even after she ran away from Cerberus.  Everything fits the stereotype.  But somehow she is deep and meaningful anyway?  I don't get it. 

As a connoisseur of crazy biitches, I had every element of Jack's character pegged dead to rights from the moment I encountered her on the Purgatory ship.  I knew that romancing her would involve exposing her delusions and I thought to myself "great another angst filled teenage stereotype".  I guess you have to know the stereotype to relate it to the character though.  It's probably hard to develop a world view from a keyboard though.

[ZennExile]

ChampDude wrote...

Oh how cute. Using a blanket statement to answer my question. How about you directly answer the question and tell me why you have such an rigorous hate for all things Mass Effect? Or, if you actually don't hate it, tell me why you choose to come into these threads that are obviously created with the intention for fans of a character to discuss what they like about them and spread hatred. What's the motive? Just to stir up some conflict? Because it's fun? Because I guarantee most people who actually don't like things tend to stay away from them. You know, there is this mechanism in pyshcology known as "Reaction Formation" in which someone displays an intense feeling, when in reality they are repressing what they truly feel. Maybe....you actually like Mass Effect and you would just don't know it yet

Oh I loved Mass Effect.  Great game, compelling characters, extremely interesting universe.  But this shooter loosly based on the Mass Effect universe that doesn't even further the plot from ME1 doesn't seem to fit.

The should have called this game "Anything but Mass Effect 2".   They should have called it something like Mass Effect: Depthless, or maybe even Mass Effect: Not the Sequel.  Something that made sense anyway.

[BobbyTheI]

ZennExile wrote...

Whoah, something's coming through the black.  Interesting.

Oh, and incidentally, I totally agree.

[ChampDude]

ZennExile wrote...

ChampDude wrote...

Oh how cute. Using a blanket statement to answer my question. How about you directly answer the question and tell me why you have such an rigorous hate for all things Mass Effect? Or, if you actually don't hate it, tell me why you choose to come into these threads that are obviously created with the intention for fans of a character to discuss what they like about them and spread hatred. What's the motive? Just to stir up some conflict? Because it's fun? Because I guarantee most people who actually don't like things tend to stay away from them. You know, there is this mechanism in pyshcology known as "Reaction Formation" in which someone displays an intense feeling, when in reality they are repressing what they truly feel. Maybe....you actually like Mass Effect and you would just don't know it yet

Oh I loved Mass Effect.  Great game, compelling characters, extremely interesting universe.  But this shooter loosly based on the Mass Effect universe that doesn't even further the plot from ME1 doesn't seem to fit.

The should have called this game "Anything but Mass Effect 2".   They should have called it something like Mass Effect: Depthless, or maybe even Mass Effect: Not the Sequel.  Something that made sense anyway.

A) Thank you for once again side-stepping my question of why you don't like Mass Effect 2 and How can you like Mass Effect 1 and then make such claims that Mass Effect 2 isn't a real sequel because it apparently lacks depth? Mass Effect 2 had more character dilemnas, more ambigious moral choices and overall darker tone. Unless you can explain to me otherwise, I don't see what you are complaining about and are possibly just looking at Mass Effect 1 through nostalgia coloured glasses

[Heyalrey]

BobbyTheI wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Whoah, something's coming through the black.  Interesting.

Oh, and incidentally, I totally agree.

Wow, I leave for a few hours and ZennExile is pouring his heart out regarding the inspiring depth of Jack's character. Who knew?

[BobbyTheI]

Heyalrey wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Whoah, something's coming through the black.  Interesting.

Oh, and incidentally, I totally agree.

Wow, I leave for a few hours and ZennExile is pouring his heart out regarding the inspiring depth of Jack's character. Who knew?

Is that who's posting those plain black posts?  Oh, okay.

Well, it's not surprising.  After all, ME2 is such an awesome game (much better than ME1, which had way too much complex stuff in it for somebody like me; thank GOD they took it all out), and Jack is easily the best character of the lot, that I'm not surprised there's another fan.  She takes a lot from characters in the past, and yet adds so much NEW to the archetype.

I certainly hope she's back in ME3, and even more, I hope they completely remove anything even resembling an RPG from it.  Things like stats and that only get in the way of the shooting fun!

[Jackal904]

BobbyTheI wrote...

Heyalrey wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Whoah, something's coming through the black.  Interesting.

Oh, and incidentally, I totally agree.

Wow, I leave for a few hours and ZennExile is pouring his heart out regarding the inspiring depth of Jack's character. Who knew?

Is that who's posting those plain black posts?  Oh, okay.

Well, it's not surprising.  After all, ME2 is such an awesome game (much better than ME1, which had way too much complex stuff in it for somebody like me; thank GOD they took it all out), and Jack is easily the best character of the lot, that I'm not surprised there's another fan.  She takes a lot from characters in the past, and yet adds so much NEW to the archetype.

I certainly hope she's back in ME3, and even more, I hope they completely remove anything even resembling an RPG from it.  Things like stats and that only get in the way of the shooting fun!

I couldn't agree more.

[Gemini1179]

Jack grows on me more and more each playthrough. I always liked the character, but now I'm really starting to see the subtle effort made by the design team to add layers to her. Well done BioWare.

[ZennExile]

ChampDude wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

ChampDude wrote...

Oh how cute. Using a blanket statement to answer my question. How about you directly answer the question and tell me why you have such an rigorous hate for all things Mass Effect? Or, if you actually don't hate it, tell me why you choose to come into these threads that are obviously created with the intention for fans of a character to discuss what they like about them and spread hatred. What's the motive? Just to stir up some conflict? Because it's fun? Because I guarantee most people who actually don't like things tend to stay away from them. You know, there is this mechanism in pyshcology known as "Reaction Formation" in which someone displays an intense feeling, when in reality they are repressing what they truly feel. Maybe....you actually like Mass Effect and you would just don't know it yet

Oh I loved Mass Effect.  Great game, compelling characters, extremely interesting universe.  But this shooter loosly based on the Mass Effect universe that doesn't even further the plot from ME1 doesn't seem to fit.

The should have called this game "Anything but Mass Effect 2".   They should have called it something like Mass Effect: Depthless, or maybe even Mass Effect: Not the Sequel.  Something that made sense anyway.

A) Thank you for once again side-stepping my question of why you don't like Mass Effect 2 and How can you like Mass Effect 1 and then make such claims that Mass Effect 2 isn't a real sequel because it apparently lacks depth? Mass Effect 2 had more character dilemnas, more ambigious moral choices and overall darker tone. Unless you can explain to me otherwise, I don't see what you are complaining about and are possibly just looking at Mass Effect 1 through nostalgia coloured glasses

A) You said Mass Effect not Mass Effect 2.  It would be stupid of me to "assume" you meant something you didn't say.

The same way pretty much every other ME1 fan does.  The game was made specifically so players who never played ME1 didn't get confused which means in turn it's designed from the ground up to "NOT BE A SEQUEL" but you knew that already right?  You knew that all these characters were spur of the moment choices that this division of Bioware (apparently the newest one with no one who even played the first ME in it let alone worked on it) came up with because they sounded "neat".

Now on to: "more character dilemnas, more ambigious moral choices and overall darker tone"

More character dilemas?  I can agree with that.  Did they make sense to the Mass Effect Universe or further the plot in any meaningful way?  Not really.  Mordin did.  But the rest of them... you can ignore them the whole game and nothing changes.  You still get a random request to go do a mission that has nothing to do with the reapers or the collectors or even gallactic unity.  So I can't really follow your logic here.

Ambiguous moral choices?  If you mean instead that they were more good/evil stereotypical nonsense that Bioware used to avoid whenever possible, then sure I can follow that.  But that isn't what ambiguous means so I guess you mean something else but don't have the words for it.

Overall darker tone is really a matter of perspective.  ME2 felt more like a running gag than a dark space opera.  And none of the choices you make seem to matter one way or the other.  I mean the developer says over and over these decisions matter for ME3 but really they wanted ME2 to stand on it's own as a game, why do none of these choices seem to have an impact on ME2?  And what is so dark about ME2? 

The lighting is darker and you get to go to Omega and travel the terminus systems with all the pirates that never show themselves.  Even a full on renegade run through the game feels more like a satire than of an actual space drama.  So I can't really follow you on the darkness either.  They tell you it's dark but they show you jokes and make light of everything without really taking that dark step.  Dragon Age was dark.  ME2 is more like what homeschooled kids think is bad, like using too much toilet paper 0o0o0o0o or cheating on a test.  ME2 doesn't even kill off a companion until the end and not unless you are completely retarded.  How dark can you really claim it is?

[ZennExile]

"which had way too much complex stuff in it for somebody like me" This is the problem right here. Instead of making the game for adults that enjoy complex ideas like ME1, they made it for simple minded children that play "I can't see you" on the forums to try and troll someone.



Terrible design choice.

[BobbyTheI]

ZennExile wrote...

Oh, come on now!  I agree the game had a lot of flaws (the horrible Mako, all those annoying stats and equipment options), but I certainly think the game has its merits.  Of course, next to the absolute perfection of ME2, it's hard to compare.  But you need to look past all the plot holes in ME1 (which, thankfully, ME2 was completely free of, and I dare you to name even one), and see it for what it is: a flawed predecessor to a flawless masterpiece.

Anyway, I thought this thread was about Jack.  Can't we get back on topic? 

[Arab25]

Jack is all around awesome. I just wish I could have talked to more as femshep. I want to be her friend =(

[Jackal904]

BobbyTheI wrote...

Anyway, I thought this thread was about Jack.  Can't we get back on topic? 

Jack is also very useful in combat. I love how she can give warp ammo to the whole squad and how she can use pull often, it's very useful.

[Welder0]

I just finished, took my time; with the mission as well as with Jack.



Nicely done Bioware.



Money well spent.



If you want to whine about the chump change probs with the plot \\ engine, fine; but you'll find no sympathy here.



Carry on.

[ZennExile]

Welder0 wrote...

If you want to whine about the chump change probs with the plot \\\\ engine, fine; but you'll find no sympathy here.

Carry on.

What about the pathetic use of stereotype rather than unique characters?  Can I get some sympathy here with that bit of ugly truth? 

[BobbyTheI]

ZennExile wrote...

Welder0 wrote...

If you want to whine about the chump change probs with the plot \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ engine, fine; but you'll find no sympathy here.

Carry on.

ZennExile's crazy for Jack!

Modifié par BobbyTheI, 24 février 2010 - 04:04 .

[Jackal904]

BobbyTheI wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Welder0 wrote...

If you want to whine about the chump change probs with the plot \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ engine, fine; but you'll find no sympathy here.

Carry on.

ZennExile's crazy for Jack!

I knew he would come around.

[siltsonata]

Couldn't find this on youtube, thought I'd ask here...Does anyone have a link to Mordin's sex advice for Jack? I assume he gives it, but the internet is overrun with the exact same Tali video over and over again.

[BobbyTheI]

siltsonata wrote...

Couldn't find this on youtube, thought I'd ask here...Does anyone have a link to Mordin's sex advice for Jack? I assume he gives it, but the internet is overrun with the exact same Tali video over and over again.

Yeah, I haven't seen it on YouTube, but it's pretty amusing.  Telling Shepard to be cautious, as powerful biotics like Jack can... lose control of their abilities during the act.

[Frellwit]

I didn't like Jack at first, but I'm beginning to like her more than Miranda (and I still really dig Miranda.) Once I did her loyalty mission a second time, I talked to her afterward and the dialog was... rewarding. She my romance in my "canon" playthrough.

[Ilzairspar]

BobbyTheI wrote...

siltsonata wrote...

Couldn't find this on youtube, thought I'd ask here...Does anyone have a link to Mordin's sex advice for Jack? I assume he gives it, but the internet is overrun with the exact same Tali video over and over again.

Yeah, I haven't seen it on YouTube, but it's pretty amusing.  Telling Shepard to be cautious, as powerful biotics like Jack can... lose control of their abilities during the act.

Found it

[Heyalrey]

BobbyTheI wrote...

I certainly hope she's back in ME3, and even more, I hope they completely remove anything even resembling an RPG from it.  Things like stats and that only get in the way of the shooting fun!

Really what I hope happens - and up until now I've kept this to myself because I wasn't sure there were like-minded people out there - is that Bioware will team up with the Call of Duty people and make a new game called "Call of Duty - Biotics: The Dating Simulator".
Pretty much the whole game will be Shepard running around fighting **** Zombies with Jack at his side and then if you get killed you can have emotional conversations with her while you wait for your respawn timer.

You can use that, Bioware. No charge.

[FlyinElk212]

I like Jack.

Please don't throw her into oblivion simply because she doesn't have hair.

[BobbyTheI]

Ilzairspar wrote...

BobbyTheI wrote...

siltsonata wrote...

Couldn't find this on youtube, thought I'd ask here...Does anyone have a link to Mordin's sex advice for Jack? I assume he gives it, but the internet is overrun with the exact same Tali video over and over again.

Yeah, I haven't seen it on YouTube, but it's pretty amusing.  Telling Shepard to be cautious, as powerful biotics like Jack can... lose control of their abilities during the act.

Found it

Mordin Solus: Patron Saint of Power Perversion Potential.