20813 réponses à ce sujet

[MHRazer]

Kind of strange that they censored her finder when clearly she isn't flipping the bird. I know why they did it, but it just looks odd given that she has all four fingers up.

[NovenseiWarden]

Ah, the media... misrepresenting Jack since the Blur trailer

[Jackal904]

Razorsedge820 wrote...

It is amazing what you can find on google, I never seen this before.

That is the most badass cover of a magazine I have ever seen in the history of everness (Yes I just made that word up). The level of awesomeness is mind blowing. That looks so ****ing kool with her and Shepard back to back acting all badass and ****.

But maybe she is giving the finger. Either way it's incredibly badass.

Modifié par Jackal904, 26 avril 2010 - 02:36 .

[Dominus5412]

That is a good picture of her. I like.

[Errationatus]

yorkj86 wrote...

You're over-thinking and over-analyzing a tradition in creative storytelling in which a character has awe-inspiring power in situations where he or she is not being utilized directly by the main character, and then, somehow, is depowered when he or she officially joins the main character.  We've discussed this several times in this thread, and we don't think much of it.  It's just unfortunate how much Bioware sets us up to be let down by having Jack instagib YMIR Mechs, and having Samara glide deftly through the air using biotics.

I'd link you to the TVTropes page, but, we all know what that place does to productivity.

EDIT:  Formatting issues.

I'm sorry you don't think much of it.  That, however, does not make it any less valid. 

As to overthinking?  I don't think so.  To which "storytelling tradition" are you refering?  In the vast majority of fiction I read, a character that demonstrates (unless the writing is very poor) a particular power always has that power.  Otherwise it's just a gimmick, and lazy, shoddy writing. 

In gaming,  it's a cop-out used for dramatic effect.  In Jack's case, it was an Ex Machina to get her out of the cell and have us chase her across the station so we can get into a little combat - else the mission was gonna be a bit short.

What I was actually trying to do was reconcile (in a traditional storytelling sense) why a character can do one thing once and then never again in this particular story and not have it look like cheap theatrics.

From a storytelling sense - it's perfectly valid.  

[Anoleis]

Could that cover be any more bad***?

Modifié par Anoleis, 26 avril 2010 - 03:53 .

[Errationatus]

Jackal904 wrote...

I think it would have been brought up if she was kept in cryo for a long time. There would have been some mention of her missing years spent in cryo. I'm assuming she knows the current date, and if she were to suddenly see it's several years from when she was first put into cryo, she probably would have said something.

Why?  Why would Jack give a crap about the date?  One day is like any other when you have no direction in life except survival.  Do pirates migrate only at certain times of the year?  Omega, for instance, I assume is open all the time.  Why would Jack care?  She's no doubt spent a good deal of time in cryo, and is probably pretty down with it.

Look at Aresh, I'm assuming he was about the same age as Jack when he escaped Teltin, and he's not old. Also, In one of the video logs during Jack's loyalty mission, a scientist says he'll piggy back onto the Ascension program which started up like 9-10 years before the events of ME2 I believe. So I think the most she would have spent in cryo is a few months.

You can assume he's the same age as Jack.  Another assumption is that Jack arrived at Teltin as, say, a 12 year old.  It's as valid as any other and as correct as any other.  The Ascension Project was begun in 2176.  Like I said before, cryo is a wonderful thing.  A 12 year old Jack at Teltin could have been in stasis for a long time, depending on where Cerberus got her.  There is mention that Cerberus infiltrated the Project (begun in 2170), and they probably did it reasonably early, around '72 perhaps. 

Maybe there was something about Jack - something that ties in with her getting stronger instead of weaker as she ages.  It's entirely possible that she was born around the same time as Alenko (2151) and discovered by Cerberus relatively soon after.  They're cautious and farseeing.  This girl is very special and could be a huge asset.

So... into cryo until we understand more about biotics. 

How old is she now?   If it's anything like I've outlined, Aresh's age is irrelevant.  He saw a young girl called Subject Zero at Teltin - and so she appeared. 

Granted, my whole 'theory' hinges on an extensive use of cryo-stasis, but it's not impossible.

[Anoleis]

JakeMacDon wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

I think it would have been brought up if she was kept in cryo for a long time. There would have been some mention of her missing years spent in cryo. I'm assuming she knows the current date, and if she were to suddenly see it's several years from when she was first put into cryo, she probably would have said something.

Why?  Why would Jack give a crap about the date?  One day is like any other when you have no direction in life except survival.  Do pirates migrate only at certain times of the year?  Omega, for instance, I assume is open all the time.  Why would Jack care?  She's no doubt spent a good deal of time in cryo, and is probably pretty down with it.

Look at Aresh, I'm assuming he was about the same age as Jack when he escaped Teltin, and he's not old. Also, In one of the video logs during Jack's loyalty mission, a scientist says he'll piggy back onto the Ascension program which started up like 9-10 years before the events of ME2 I believe. So I think the most she would have spent in cryo is a few months.

You can assume he's the same age as Jack.  Another assumption is that Jack arrived at Teltin as, say, a 12 year old.  It's as valid as any other and as correct as any other.  The Ascension Project was begun in 2176.  Like I said before, cryo is a wonderful thing.  A 12 year old Jack at Teltin could have been in stasis for a long time, depending on where Cerberus got her.  There is mention that Cerberus infiltrated the Project (begun in 2170), and they probably did it reasonably early, around '72 perhaps. 

Maybe there was something about Jack - something that ties in with her getting stronger instead of weaker as she ages.  It's entirely possible that she was born around the same time as Alenko (2151) and discovered by Cerberus relatively soon after.  They're cautious and farseeing.  This girl is very special and could be a huge asset.

So... into cryo until we understand more about biotics. 

How old is she now?   If it's anything like I've outlined, Aresh's age is irrelevant.  He saw a young girl called Subject Zero at Teltin - and so she appeared. 

Granted, my whole 'theory' hinges on an extensive use of cryo-stasis, but it's not impossible.

I was wondering has anyone read the two ME novels? I wonder if Jack or anything about Jack is in them?

[Jackal904]

I was thinking about that situation that Jack brings up on the Citadel where seven guys attacked her on the Purgatory. I know most people think she was raped, but after thinking about it for a while I don't think she was. She says that she cracked one's skull open and snapped the spine of the other. And I don't know about you, but I would have a tough time getting "randy" with two dead bodies next to me and blood everywhere. I think they were just trying to put Jack in her place by beating her up. I'm sure she was going around acting tough and other people were thinking she needed to be knocked down a few notches. So some gaurds and prisoners got together and jumped her.

[Jackal904]

yorkj86 wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

I'm sorry you don't think much of it.  That, however, does not make it any less valid. 

As to overthinking?  I don't think so.  To which "storytelling tradition" are you refering?  In the vast majority of fiction I read, a character that demonstrates (unless the writing is very poor) a particular power always has that power.  Otherwise it's just a gimmick, and lazy, shoddy writing. 

In gaming,  it's a cop-out used for dramatic effect.  In Jack's case, it was an Ex Machina to get her out of the cell and have us chase her across the station so we can get into a little combat - else the mission was gonna be a bit short.

What I was actually trying to do was reconcile (in a traditional storytelling sense) why a character can do one thing once and then never again in this particular story and not have it look like cheap theatrics.

From a storytelling sense - it's perfectly valid.  

Your points are neither valid nor invalid because the whole thing is a non-issue.  You're attempting to find meaning where there is only smoke and shadows.  It is all "cheap theatrics".  It's a "cop-out".  It's how, in the QTEs, the weakest pistol in the game can put down a Krogan with one bullet.  It's for show.

If you'd like to speculate, that's fine, but I wouldn't take your conclusions seriously within the context of the game.

EDIT: Formatting issues again.

Yeah the whole thing with her taking out those three YMIR mechs and not being nearly that powerful in actual combat, is just your typical cutscene power. It's common and yes it's weird, but it happens and you just have to roll with it. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CutscenePowerToTheMax

[Jackal904]

yorkj86 wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

I was thinking about that situation that Jack brings up on the Citadel where seven guys attacked her on the Purgatory. I know most people think she was raped, but after thinking about it for a while I don't think she was. She says that she cracked one's skull open and snapped the spine of the other. And I don't know about you, but I would have a tough time getting "randy" with two dead bodies next to me and blood everywhere. I think they were just trying to put Jack in her place by beating her up. I'm sure she was going around acting tough and other people were thinking she needed to be knocked down a few notches. So some gaurds and prisoners got together and jumped her.

I don't know about all of that, but regarding your comment about people getting randy while there are blood and guts scattered about, some of the people on Purgatory were pretty messed up...

True but some of those seven guys were gaurds. And I'm assuming the gaurds are not psychos like the prisoners.

[Jackal904]

yorkj86 wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

True but some of those seven guys were gaurds. And I'm assuming the gaurds are not psychos like the prisoners.

Maybe the guards didn't like Jack, and they were enabling the inmates to do their thing by looking the other way while they attacked?

I don't think so. Plus, considering the tameness of the sex scenes, if BioWare wasn't willing to show some nudity, I doubt they would mention rape in the game.

Edit: Actually BioWare heavily implies rape a few times with Jack. She says she was "used" several times. But I don't think she was raped on Purgatory.

Modifié par Jackal904, 26 avril 2010 - 04:45 .

[axl99]

During Jack's Murtock speech she mentions how he "used her like the rest, for sex, for biotics".

Kinda spells it out for me the context of which she utilizes the word "USED".

But true, there is no concrete proof what exactly happened to Jack in the latrine on Purgatory.

Modifié par axl99, 26 avril 2010 - 04:57 .

[Dominus5412]

No concrete proof, but I don't think a group of men moving in on a single female in a bathroom in a prison are there to discuss the weather.

[Errationatus]

yorkj86 wrote...

Your points are neither valid nor invalid because the whole thing is a non-issue.  You're attempting to find meaning where there is only smoke and shadows.  It is all "cheap theatrics".  It's a "cop-out".  It's how, in the QTEs, the weakest pistol in the game can put down a Krogan with one bullet.  It's for show.  We are forced to concede that from two apparent realities, only one can be true - one where people are powered as they are shown, or they are depowered as they appear to be on missions, outside of QTEs.

If you'd like to speculate, that's fine, but I wouldn't take your conclusions seriously within the context of the game.

Ah, I see where our disconnect is - I'm not dealing with the game itself - but the story the game is telling.  I couldn't care less about geekspeak for how games supposedly work or don't work.  I'm not interested in the mechanics of the game I'm playing as long as I can play it.  I bought both Mass Effects because I like the story.  In the sense of the STORY of Mass Effect, my points about "cutscene"-whatever remain valid, in the context of the universe the folks at Bioware have created.

One thing - I have no idea what version you guys are playing, (and I'm assuming the krogan you speak of is the one during Thane's loyalty mission), but in my game Kolyat shoots that Krogan THREE times and he's not dead.  As they run past, the Krogan bodyguard struggles to get up - not dead. 

If there's another Krogan that drops with one slug, I must have missed it. I would appreciate any correction on this.

Also, I'm fairly certain I've never said I wasn't doing anything but speculating.  Which is pretty much what Mondo, Royce and most of us here in this thread have been doing.

Or is there verifiable proof that all these emotional projections everyone gives to Jack are actually the way she thinks during any given scene?  I'd love to see it, simply because I doubt I get (for example) either scared at the things you fear or react to them the same way. 

EDIT: unnecessary pique.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 26 avril 2010 - 07:45 .

[MHRazer]

JakeMacDon wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Your points are neither valid nor invalid because the whole thing is a non-issue.  You're attempting to find meaning where there is only smoke and shadows.  It is all "cheap theatrics".  It's a "cop-out".  It's how, in the QTEs, the weakest pistol in the game can put down a Krogan with one bullet.  It's for show.  We are forced to concede that from two apparent realities, only one can be true - one where people are powered as they are shown, or they are depowered as they appear to be on missions, outside of QTEs.

If you'd like to speculate, that's fine, but I wouldn't take your conclusions seriously within the context of the game.

Ah, I see where our disconnect is - I'm not dealing with the game itself - but the story the game is telling.  I couldn't care less about geekspeak for how games supposedly work or don't work.  I'm not interested in the mechanics of the game I'm playing as long as I can play it.  I bought both Mass Effects because I like the story.  In the sense of the STORY of Mass Effect, my points about "cutscene"-whatever remain valid, in the context of the universe the folks at Bioware have created.

One thing - I have no idea what version you guys are playing, (and I'm assuming the krogan you speak of is the one during Thane's loyalty mission), but in my game Kolyat shoots that Krogan THREE times and he's not dead.  As they run past, the Krogan bodyguard struggles to get up - not dead. 

If there's another Krogan that drops with one slug, I must have missed it. I would appreciate any correction on this.

Also, I'm fairly certain I've never said I wasn't doing anything but speculating.  Which is pretty much what Mondo, Royce and most of us here in this thread have been doing.

Or is there verifiable proof that all these emotional projections everyone gives to Jack are actually the way she thinks during any given scene?  I'd love to see it, simply because I doubt I get (for example) either scared at the things you fear or react to them the same way. 

EDIT: unnecessary pique.

I don't think york or anyone else was claiming you weren't speculating; we all are, and at this point that's all there is to really do. I think the point is that since we're trying to form an overall larger picture of our gal Jack, and trying to understand her better within the overall story, we should try to focus our speculation on the parts of the game where the game actually takes itself seriously. We were speculating a little while back about how Jack's cutscene strength would come into play if she were fighting Samara and other squadmates, but those were hypothetical situations, not actually using the cutscene discrepancies to justify an entirely new take on Jack's past.

That being said it could be possible that she has had extended stints in cryo, I just don't see much evidence for it.  

Modifié par MHRazer, 26 avril 2010 - 11:58 .

[native chug]

jacks a **** and i like it lol

[MHRazer]

native chug wrote...

jacks a **** and i like it lol

Short and to the point, can't argue with your logic there