20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Urdaniel]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I assume that whenever the society(s) paid the Warden (Pugatory), they gave up their responsibility of her incarceration and/or Jack's debt to that society(s), to the Warden and his prison. From then on, I assume the responsibility for her incarceration and her debts to society(s), falls totally to the Warden and his prison. Since there is no Warden or prison, I assume the debts she owes are nullified.

Personally, I don't think any debts to society or societies that Jack has are null and void just because Purgatory and the Warden are gone.  In the real world, there are enough instances of people who bear grudges against ex-convicts even after they've served their sentences.  I'm thinking roughly along these lines:

While Purgatory was still up and running, anyone with a grudge and with enough money to pay off Warden Kuril could "assume responsibility" for Jack - most likely to exact their own brand of punishment for whatever harm they suffered at her hands.  If you didn't have the creds, then too bad - can't do anything to Jack without going through the Warden and his goons first.  Doesn't mean that the grudge still isn't there or that the perception that Jack owes in some way, shape, or fashion disappears.  It's just on hold.

Well now Shep has busted her out.  No Warden or thugs to get in the way (leaving aside the huge problem of finding Jack in the first place and the even bigger headache of going through Shepard and co. once they do), so all bets are off.  Anyone and everyone who has an axe to grind (and the stones or stupidity to act on it) is probably going to be looking for her.  Post-ME2, I'd at least expect a Drell assassin or two lurking in the shadows (the Hanar loved that moon, after all), plus a few Turian black ops units on the prowl.  Then there's all the other, non-governmental, folks who might have a mad on against her.  It should make for some interesting times at the very least.  It's going to be really lame if Bioware cops out and doesn't address the possibility of stuff like this, even if it's only a few lines in a dossier somewhere.


Edit: In my opinion, presuming her dead is a  bit of a handwave.  Shepard was officially listed as dead and yet, once he/she comes back, all of a sudden everyone knows about it (to the point where they even get an email addy).  Yes I know that Bioware took dramatic license with that, but it's still not too much of a stretch to imagine that people would know Jack survived the destruction of Purgatory.  And let's face it, she's too distinctive to go walking around and remain unremarked.  Aria and Liara would know, certainly, as would the Shadow Broker.  TIM knows, and in the wake of Shepard's crossing him with the destruction of the Collector base, it's easy enough to extrapolate that he might tip certain people off about Jack being alive (if not send Cerberus teams out to recover her).

Modifié par Urdaniel, 27 avril 2010 - 12:54 .

[Razorsedge820]

Is Jack even a legal citizen? Considering Jacks childhood being spent at Teltin facility which was a rouge project I dont think Jack even existed in galactic society from that point. Jacks citizen ID couldn't be confirmed by that holographic advertisement board on Zakera ward either. Plus she has no real name that we know of. If Jack is technically not on the grid I guess that makes her safe unless someone notices her, but I doubt the snitch will be able to live past their encounter with Jack.

Modifié par Razorsedge820, 27 avril 2010 - 12:49 .

[axl99]

I dunno why they couldn't have stuck with THE CONVICT. It's consistent with what was used in the achievments list.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Plus, saving the galaxy will only look good to any authorities that take an interest after the endgame. As of now, she's in the Terminus, on a Cerberus vessel. I kind of doubt anyone is looking for her anyway.

[axl99]

Random thought.



Looking at the design of her top on her loyalty costume, the red on black design reminded me of the Terminus armor. If Jack is to wear armor for ME3, I hope it will have a similar design.

[Jackal904]

Iron Man195 wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

I always thought any record of Jack's criminal past would have been destroyed in the destruction of the Purgatory. As far as the galaxy is concerned, I bet she's presumed dead.

Makes sense. The ad on the citidel refers to her as "citizen ID not found" which I guess means she's presumed dead.

No I just don't think her ID is registered in the system. She hardly knows her own identity.

[Hyper Cutter]

Iron Man195 wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

I always thought any record of Jack's criminal past would have been destroyed in the destruction of the Purgatory. As far as the galaxy is concerned, I bet she's presumed dead.

Makes sense. The ad on the citidel refers to her as "citizen ID not found" which I guess means she's presumed dead.

Or that she never officially existed in the first place.

[Jackal904]

Urdaniel wrote...

While Purgatory was still up and running, anyone with a grudge and with enough money to pay off Warden Kuril could "assume responsibility" for Jack - most likely to exact their own brand of punishment for whatever harm they suffered at her hands.  If you didn't have the creds, then too bad - can't do anything to Jack without going through the Warden and his goons first.  Doesn't mean that the grudge still isn't there or that the perception that Jack owes in some way, shape, or fashion disappears.  It's just on hold.

Well now Shep has busted her out.  No Warden or thugs to get in the way (leaving aside the huge problem of finding Jack in the first place and the even bigger headache of going through Shepard and co. once they do), so all bets are off.  Anyone and everyone who has an axe to grind (and the stones or stupidity to act on it) is probably going to be looking for her.  Post-ME2, I'd at least expect a Drell assassin or two lurking in the shadows (the Hanar loved that moon, after all), plus a few Turian black ops units on the prowl.  Then there's all the other, non-governmental, folks who might have a mad on against her.  It should make for some interesting times at the very least.  It's going to be really lame if Bioware cops out and doesn't address the possibility of stuff like this, even if it's only a few lines in a dossier somewhere.

I've been thinking of this for a long time, and I think it would make for an extremely interesting scenario. I think it's extremely plausible and even likely. She has to have pissed a lot of people off throughout her lifetime. I could imagine she pissed off some rich people who would want her dead. Or like you said, the hanar could have hired an assassin to kill Jack for damaging one of their moons. That would be crazy if you're at some place like Omega or Illium, and Jack gets attacked by some assassin or a group of mercs. Or somehow she gets captured and you have to rescue her. Or someone Jack has wronged recognizes her and makes a scene, and you find out about something really bad she did and you have to decide how to react to it.

[MHRazer]

Jackal904 wrote...

Urdaniel wrote...

While Purgatory was still up and running, anyone with a grudge and with enough money to pay off Warden Kuril could "assume responsibility" for Jack - most likely to exact their own brand of punishment for whatever harm they suffered at her hands.  If you didn't have the creds, then too bad - can't do anything to Jack without going through the Warden and his goons first.  Doesn't mean that the grudge still isn't there or that the perception that Jack owes in some way, shape, or fashion disappears.  It's just on hold.

Well now Shep has busted her out.  No Warden or thugs to get in the way (leaving aside the huge problem of finding Jack in the first place and the even bigger headache of going through Shepard and co. once they do), so all bets are off.  Anyone and everyone who has an axe to grind (and the stones or stupidity to act on it) is probably going to be looking for her.  Post-ME2, I'd at least expect a Drell assassin or two lurking in the shadows (the Hanar loved that moon, after all), plus a few Turian black ops units on the prowl.  Then there's all the other, non-governmental, folks who might have a mad on against her.  It should make for some interesting times at the very least.  It's going to be really lame if Bioware cops out and doesn't address the possibility of stuff like this, even if it's only a few lines in a dossier somewhere.

I've been thinking of this for a long time, and I think it would make for an extremely interesting scenario. I think it's extremely plausible and even likely. She has to have pissed a lot of people off throughout her lifetime. I could imagine she pissed off some rich people who would want her dead. Or like you said, the hanar could have hired an assassin to kill Jack for damaging one of their moons. That would be crazy if you're at some place like Omega or Illium, and Jack gets attacked by some assassin or a group of mercs. Or somehow she gets captured and you have to rescue her. Or someone Jack has wronged recognizes her and makes a scene, and you find out about something really bad she did and you have to decide how to react to it.

Despite how awesome this would be, the main problem I see is they would need to do similar things for every character. I'm not sure how many 'popup' scenarios some of the other characters could have that would fit with their stories. The reason they'd have to do this for everyone is many people won't be using Jack a lot of the time (probably at all) so obviously her scenarios wouldn't come up. Can't just have that cool concept and wasted development time sitting down in engineering for the majority of players without similar events for the characters they are using. 

[adriano_c]

That'd be pretty funny, actually, considering I almost never use Jack.

[Jackal904]

MHRazer wrote...

Despite how awesome this would be, the main problem I see is they would need to do similar things for every character. I'm not sure how many 'popup' scenarios some of the other characters could have that would fit with their stories. The reason they'd have to do this for everyone is many people won't be using Jack a lot of the time (probably at all) so obviously her scenarios wouldn't come up. Can't just have that cool concept and wasted development time sitting down in engineering for the majority of players without similar events for the characters they are using. 

Well it would have to be setup somehow to make sense. Like if you didn't take Jack with you, when the Normandy is docked some assassin or mercs infiltrate the Normandy and capture her.

And I'm sure all squadmates will have one or more missions focused on them indiviually. And that could be Jack's.

[Urdaniel]

Jackal904 wrote...

I've been thinking of this for a long time, and I think it would make for an extremely interesting scenario. I think it's extremely plausible and even likely. She has to have pissed a lot of people off throughout her lifetime. I could imagine she pissed off some rich people who would want her dead. Or like you said, the hanar could have hired an assassin to kill Jack for damaging one of their moons. That would be crazy if you're at some place like Omega or Illium, and Jack gets attacked by some assassin or a group of mercs. Or somehow she gets captured and you have to rescue her. Or someone Jack has wronged recognizes her and makes a scene, and you find out about something really bad she did and you have to decide how to react to it.

Although I understand MHRazer's point about prioritizing and allocating limited development resources, I'm hoping Jack gets something like this.  After all, it could be argued that the amount of attention devoted to (dare I say lavished on) Jack's appearance, facial expressions, and character development show that Bioware is willing to expend time and effort on a character who isn't anticipated, up-front, to be a hugely popular squad choice.  It would be a crying shame if relevant stuff like this is relegated to the contents of an email message (I specifically direct your attention to Corporal Toombs' email to you should he survive your encounter in ME).

[adriano_c]

Found this pic rather bizarre...

[Epantiras]

adriano_c wrote...

Found this pic rather bizarre...

[snip]

CANNOT UN-SEE XD
(it's a joke)

[adriano_c]

JakeMacDon wrote...

I'm sorry you don't think much of it.  That, however, does not make it any less valid. 

As to overthinking?  I don't think so.  To which "storytelling tradition" are you refering?  In the vast majority of fiction I read, a character that demonstrates (unless the writing is very poor) a particular power always has that power.  Otherwise it's just a gimmick, and lazy, shoddy writing. 

In gaming,  it's a cop-out used for dramatic effect.  In Jack's case, it was an Ex Machina to get her out of the cell and have us chase her across the station so we can get into a little combat - else the mission was gonna be a bit short.

What I was actually trying to do was reconcile (in a traditional storytelling sense) why a character can do one thing once and then never again in this particular story and not have it look like cheap theatrics.

From a storytelling sense - it's perfectly valid.  

I'm of the opinion that the cut-scenes are indeed "canon" story...as really, that's all they are, pure story, unrestricted by necessary "balanced" combat mechanics and other such stuff.

So yes, Jack can tear up mechs bare-fisted, Samara can fly, Thane can single-handedly clean entire rooms himself in a matter of seconds. Afterall, these are shown and acknowledged by the characters. Meanwhile, the in-game combat itself doesn't really "hold up" from a "making sense" perspective. I mean, Shepard saves the galaxy from its greatest threat thanks to conveniently placed meter-high and indestructable bits of cover? Without said cover, he's basically wasted by a handful of charging mercenaries (depending on difficulty setting)?

Either way, to me, cut-scenes = in-game reality, unfettered by a need to draw out the game's length and protect Shepard from his own unremarkable, "ordinariness".

[Mondo47]

adriano_c wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

I'm sorry you don't think much of it.  That, however, does not make it any less valid. 

As to overthinking?  I don't think so.  To which "storytelling tradition" are you refering?  In the vast majority of fiction I read, a character that demonstrates (unless the writing is very poor) a particular power always has that power.  Otherwise it's just a gimmick, and lazy, shoddy writing. 

In gaming,  it's a cop-out used for dramatic effect.  In Jack's case, it was an Ex Machina to get her out of the cell and have us chase her across the station so we can get into a little combat - else the mission was gonna be a bit short.

What I was actually trying to do was reconcile (in a traditional storytelling sense) why a character can do one thing once and then never again in this particular story and not have it look like cheap theatrics.

From a storytelling sense - it's perfectly valid.  

I'm of the opinion that the cut-scenes are indeed "canon" story...as really, that's all they are, pure story, unrestricted by necessary "balanced" combat mechanics and other such stuff.

So yes, Jack can tear up mechs bare-fisted, Samara can fly, Thane can single-handedly clean entire rooms himself in a matter of seconds. Afterall, these are shown and acknowledged by the characters. Meanwhile, the in-game combat itself doesn't really "hold up" from a "making sense" perspective. I mean, Shepard saves the galaxy from its greatest threat thanks to conveniently placed meter-high and indestructable bits of cover? Without said cover, he's basically wasted by a handful of charging mercenaries (depending on difficulty setting)?

Either way, to me, cut-scenes = in-game reality, unfettered by a need to draw out the game's length and protect Shepard from his own unremarkable, "ordinariness".

I think I'm with Adriano here when I think about it... otherwise working solely from the game mechanics it makes Jack not really any more potent than Miranda. Pigs'll fly first (and I mean without a gravity gun helping them out)

[axl99]

Cutscenes in the case of ME2 are straight up eye candy. Narrative eye candy mind you.



Making more custom in-game animations for characters takes up space and may do more funny things to the gameplay outside of what the designers had in mind. I mean it's crazy enough that there are bugs that let you and your squaddies hover over huge chasms or walk through walls.



Most characters share the same mocap animations for gunfights and shooting anyway. Since they all have the same bone rig setup you could theoretically get someone like Grunt to walk like Miranda.



We did scratch our heads over why Jack or even Samara had such a limited biotic skill set. But if that's what the devs planned for, oh well.



Not that it makes a diff if there were to be another ME comic made about another squad member. Skies the limit with that.

[Mondo47]

I couldn't resist...

[Jackal904]

Mondo47 wrote...

I couldn't resist...

Lmao that's great Mondo.

It's so funny to watch her introduction cutscene that portrays her as this super powerful ruthless badass, when you know she can turn into an emotionally vulnerable softy.

Modifié par Jackal904, 27 avril 2010 - 06:21 .