20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Mondo47]

Wow, I turn my back to work on a little project and you all go barking mad on me! Postarama! Now I have to catch up, you swines!

royceclemens wrote...

I believe it was Mondo who was gobsmacked when she found out there were no female writers on the ME2 staff.



And if you have a problem with Willow Rosenberg, sir, then I shall have to ask you to step outside!

Boy was I... I think all things considered they did a really good job. Granted, there are men out there that can write women intelligently for a mixed or even an entirely feminine audience, but they're hardly the sort of people you expect to find working in videogames; they're not exactly a medium that hangs on the fulcrum of great writing 99.9% of the time, alas.

Tali, I mean Willow was fine until she did her whole lesbian transformation thing... sure, it was handled with respect, but no matter how much Whedon denies it, it stank of fanservice and pandering... "Oh, we have a huge female fanbase now, despite the fact we pitched this show squarely at guys to begin with, so let's find a nice girly issue that will still keep the guys watching... hmm... what could it be?" <_<

Yep - I'm a card-carrying cynic

[royceclemens]

Yes, that does indeed make Jack Faith.



Violent tendencies: Check.



Extreme self-loathing: Check.



Jones for redemption and acceptance: Check



Big sad-ass brown puppy-dog eyes: Check



Note that this is a favorable comparison, as I think Faith rules. Also note that this makes Miranda Cordelia.

[Errationatus]

royceclemens wrote...

And now we've moved to the part of the game where I'm done talking to you.

I can't imagine how what I said could be taken as hostility - but as you said, that's your right.  I intended nothing of the kind.

I think I understand how this thread is run, now.  Most interesting.

Thanks for your comments, regardless.

[Epantiras]

Mass Effect and Buffy??? Heresy! Oh well, Bioware drew inspiration from it for some Dragon Age characters so I should just STFU.

[SpiderFan1217]

OMG we're comparing Buffy and Mass Effect! SWEET! Also, Jack is definatly Faith. (FYI, Faith gets a way bigger role in the story after the show was canceled. READ THE COMIC. ****ING AWESOME!)

[Mak999]

Epantiras wrote...

Speaking of Kotor...

What connects Jack and Juhani?

Modifié par Mak999, 03 mai 2010 - 07:12 .

[Mondo47]

Silly eyegear and voice actresses?

[Mak999]

Mondo47 wrote...

Silly eyegear and voice actresses?

They are voiced by the same actress?

Modifié par Mak999, 03 mai 2010 - 07:22 .

[Mondo47]

yfhfrg wrote...

Gotta disagree there Mondo. If it was just a ratings stunt to get men watching the show then they wouldn't have put off their first kiss until about a year into their relationship. I get why they did it now  but at the time the physicality of their relationship was downplayed so much I actually got annoyed by it. Like they were making Will say she was a lesbian but unwilling to actually show it.

Oh yes, Jack. So if Tali's Willow, does that make Jack Faith?

Feel free to disagree, comrade - I'm often told I'm utterly unfair to that show. It happens so often I'm sure I've got something wrong with my assessment of it, I'll have to sit down and watch it properly one of these days. Ok, let's just concentrate it down to I'm suspicious of any show written by a guy (if a woman had written it I'd not even be having this conversation, incidentally) where established female characters suddenly start batting for the same team. You start out gay or bi, fine, you suddenly turn? It might happen that way in reality, but in a tv show with a big fanbase... I can't help but smell a cynical rat.

Call it my own brand of rampant writer's sexism - guys know jack about being a lesbian. Bam, my door closes. Not that I know much more, but I know a little bit at least

And yeah, I'd say that you're right, Jack is Faith; spiky and poisonous outside, soft and chocolatey inside.

[adriano_c]

I've known a number of girls who participated in threesomes (as I'll assume Jack did when invited to whatever couple's bed). They didn't "inexplicably turn straight", either. They always were.

-edit. Off-topic, but did anyone else see this "DLC announcement"? Absolutely hilarious...not to mention, a lot of people already own the armor.

Modifié par adriano_c, 03 mai 2010 - 08:05 .

[Mondo47]

adriano_c wrote...

I've known a number of girls who participated in threesomes (as I'll assume Jack did when "invited to whatever couple's bed). They didn't "inexplicably turn straight", either. They always were.

This. I'm saying nothing more 

I tend to be of the belief that once you come to the conclusion you're gay, you tend to stay gay. Bisexuality is tricky because while I do understand you can find both sexes attractive you tend to (in my experience of people that consider themselves bi) settle with one or the other gender in the end (which fits with Jack from what little we know about her as men like Murtock and Shep are obviously of the highest emotional significance). So is bisexuality a 'norm' or is it just an extended period of finding your feet? I certainly wouldn't want to call it either way (for fear of being beaten with stout sticks).

I'll now steer away from this topic... potential powderkeg

[adriano_c]

Underrated line...



Zaeed noting he "could have used a destructive little b*tch like that" on whatever past mission of his. Referring to Jack.

[Skilled Seeker]

adriano_c wrote...

Underrated line...

Zaeed noting he "could have used a destructive little b*tch like that" on whatever past mission of his. Referring to Jack.

I lol'd when he said that. Zaeed fears noone.

[Jackal904]

JakeMacDon wrote...

IMO, Jack is the only "real" woman in the entire game.  Despite how it looks, ('bikeresque badass') Jack really isn't either a cliche or a stereotype when it comes down to her personality.  Any relationship worth the pursuing is just as you've described:  I've gotten this far, now what?

I'm also of the opinion that there was no sex in Jack's denouement.  It would have just been... tacky.

Miranda?  The rich chick with the smoke'n bod who basically bangs you because you're cool.   She'll drop you as fast as she dropped Jacob.  Y'know what?  You probably won't give a crap.  Control chip this, beeatch.

Tali?  Tali may as well be the anime chick, the one that gets all the latent pedo-yearnings of the neckbeards up and vibrating.  As sweet as she is, she's got the personality of a popsicle.  Eventually, that sweet 'n' cute's gonna wear off and get annoying as hell.

Kelly?  Who cares?  A psychologist with the heart of a stripper?  Ho-kay.  Pass, thanks.  A big, big thumbs up for the "empowerment" thing, but a big thumbs down for the presentation, yah?

But Jack...  Jack will never give you a goddamn inch, never ever allow you to take her for granted, and by hell's triple gates, without the respect she deserves and the honest honest time required to even get a glimpse of the woman she can be, the only priiize you'll get is a biotically-amped elbow in the throat.

There's a reason, I think, as to why women seem to be in the majority when it comes to liking Jack - it's simple:  ask any woman who has had to work three times as hard, hide her femininity, endure the neverending male predation (real or metaphorical) and come out on the end any man's equal or better and they'll tell you why:  Jack is one of them.

I agree about Miranda. I find her to be the type of girl who goes out with the captain of the football team just because he's the captain of the football team. And I think most of the audience that her character is aimed to attract, expect little to no more than that.

I too find Tali's romance kinda creepy. She's been like a little sister to Shepard throughout both ME games, and to romance her would feel a bit incestuous. That's just my opinion though.

I also agree with why you think so many females like Jack, but I also think it has something to do with their stronger maternal feelings. Mondo has said this several times. Their inner parent yells at them to help this extremely troubled young girl.

Nivenus wrote...

First of all, Jack is far too traumatized
to be a good role model for women.

True, but Jake never said Jack was a good role model. He was just saying that women can easily relate to Jack because she has the most real personality. As a matter of fact, in an interview, Casey Hudson said that Jack is the most real character they've ever created.

Modifié par Jackal904, 03 mai 2010 - 10:42 .

[Collider]

@Royce: If you've got the game for the PC, there is a mod that restores some of the cut content for TSL. Unluckily my discs for this game have stopped working just in time But anyways, here it is:

www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php

[Jackal904]

yorkj86 wrote...

What if it's a gay/bi/experimental character, suddenly, inexplicably turning straight, as with Jack?    She even tells us a story where she was with a woman.  Is this just another case of there being the rumor that the voice-actor/actress refused to record lines for gay romance dialogue?

Well it wasn't like she had a relationship with a woman. She just said a couple wanted to get her in bed. Sure she probably had a threesome with them, but I think there's a big different between someone having a threesome with one member being of the same sex, than them being full blown bisexual or gay. Maybe she had a threesome with them, didn't like it, and never did it again. Which is what I think is the case.

[7Makaveli]

ellow Jack fans. Thought I'd post this "Jack for President" poster/fanart.





http://fc03.devianta...ojangles824.png



*salutes*

[axl99]

I agree with Mondo on the male writer bit. I'm of the opinion that Jack could've used better lines for some of her dialogue.It didn't seem right for her to keep reiterating the words "drugged and tortured me" before, during, and after her loyalty mission.  Just listen to the audio clips bobbythei posted a while back.

Writers did fine with her being a badass and giving the occasional funny one-liner, but the emotional bits are the toughest parts to work on. Couldn't have pulled that part off without Courtenay Taylor's acting skill. Otherwise, the fact that Jack was made to be multi-layered didn't really get through to the average joe, wasted potential in my opinion.

Modifié par axl99, 04 mai 2010 - 01:50 .

[Jackal904]

axl99 wrote...

I agree with Mondo on the male writer bit. I'm of the opinion that Jack could've used better lines for some of her dialogue.It didn't seem right for her to keep reiterating the words "drugged and tortured me" before, during, and after her loyalty mission.  Just listen to the audio clips bobbythei posted a while back.

Writers did fine with her being a badass and giving the occasional funny one-liner, but the emotional bits are the toughest parts to work on. Couldn't have pulled that part off without Courtenay Taylor's acting skill. Otherwise, the fact that Jack was made to be multi-layered didn't really get through to the average joe, wasted potential in my opinion.

The only time I can remember when she says "drugged and tortured" is when she first talks to you about her loyalty mission. And I agree with Coutney Taylor's voice acting. It's absolutely phenominal. Jack wouldn't have been remotely as great as she is without Courtney Taylor's incredible voice acting talent.