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[Jackal904]

Hails A Tan wrote...

...Gentlemen. (Mentlegen, if you prefer.) This is my first real foray into the Bioware forums proper, and it's kind of a scary place, so be gentle or the husk in my avatar will cry bitter, synthetic tears.

In response to a challenge to carry out the most bizarre pairing that I could think of, I started work on a fanfiction called Rock Steady a few months ago; it pairs Jack with (brace yourselves) Thane. I'm right up to the chapter that involves the Omega 4 relay at the moment, and I find myself at a bit of a conundrum that I was wondering if you guys could help me with: my tiny fanbase is mostly comprised of Thane admirers (ie: girls), and in response to 'so, uh, should there be a sex scene like in the normal game' they've mostly said yes. However, this thing is really supposed to be Jack-centric (she's my favorite squadmate by leaps and bounds), and I thought it'd be better to get the opinions of the people who know the character best.

I ask because, and I'm aware this is fanfiction heresy, I really don't feel that screwing down in the cargo hold is really a stage that they've reached, at the rate of development they've gone through, nor that it would be what either of the characters would really feel they needed. Despite what feedback I've gotten so far has suggested, it seems to me like it'd be...cheap, I don't know. Too physical. I was mostly entertaining the idea of substituting a discussion about the inevitable problems in the future (I mean, he's dying and we know from canon she doesn't take loss well), but...oy. I am at an impasse.

also I think I'd be too embarrassed to write smut, oh god don't hurt me

So, if anybody wouldn't mind offering an opinion on that, I would be hugely appreciative. I'd really prefer some input from the Jack side of the equation, for once (really, I need all the help I can get :| but one step at a time).

I'm a big fan of the fanfic, although I wished Jack and Thane would have stayed on a friend level relationship. I'll have to disagree with axl about Jack's "neural degeneration." I don't think it should even be brought up because I don't think it's a noteworthy issue. Your fanfic has been very tasteful so far, there is no need to ruin it with some unecessary graphic sex scene. You could create a scene that leaves the interpretation up to the reader. "Did they have sex or did they not have sex?" I think that's the best way to go. Which was similar to how BioWare did Jack's paragon romance scene. It's not 100% clear whether they did or did not have sex, which I think was the best way to portray that scene.

[Hails A Tan]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the help you've given me; I have to admit I was really unsure about what to do at first, but you've all given me a great deal of things to take into consideration, and I can't thank you enough for it. (And York, no worries man, you're in good company. I don't think anybody's less of a fan of this thing than I am ) I feel a lot more comfortable about the chapter I'm working on now than I did before, now that I've got some viewpoints that balance out the 'equation'.



But this is the Jack thread, not the Hails thread, so I should be on topic: I love the DLC outfit to death (the riot boots in particular are fantastic), but I can't bring myself to use it because of the sunglasses. Man, the character with the most expressive eyes in the entire game and they put shades on her. I'm surprised there isn't a texture mod out yet to make them transparent.

[Pacifien]

Hails A Tan wrote...
But this is the Jack thread, not the Hails thread, so I should be on topic: I love the DLC outfit to death (the riot boots in particular are fantastic), but I can't bring myself to use it because of the sunglasses. Man, the character with the most expressive eyes in the entire game and they put shades on her. I'm surprised there isn't a texture mod out yet to make them transparent.

Total agreement there.

[Jackal904]

Hails A Tan wrote...

I love the DLC outfit to death (the riot boots in particular are fantastic), but I can't bring myself to use it because of the sunglasses. Man, the character with the most expressive eyes in the entire game and they put shades on her. I'm surprised there isn't a texture mod out yet to make them transparent.

Yeah I know that's what I've been saying. Jack has the most amazing eyes, and BioWare goes and gives her an outfit that covers them up. I love the outfit, I just hate the visor. I would buy that DLC if Jack's outfit didn't include that stupid visor.

[Urdaniel]

Well, the fellow over in the ME Texture Modders group has come back and says he'll have the sunglasses thing licked within the week.  So it may be time to either pick up or revisit Jack's 3rd outfit (personally, I use it on missions and switch back to her loyalty outfit when she's back on the Normandy).  Here's hoping....

[axl99]

If Bioware had to use shades on Jack, they could've just gone for the aviator look and reduce the opacity on the lenses.

Modifié par axl99, 07 mai 2010 - 01:58 .

[Barrendall]

I don't mind Thane's shades it works for me but I too am very surprised that Bioware would cover up Jack's best feature. The only flaw that I can see in her change of clothes.

[exterminator_]

Jackal904 wrote...

Jack pounce >>>>>> Tali pounce.

I find Jack's renegade sex scene far hotter than Miranda's sex scene. And that's not just me being biased .

Of cource cause she is a real woman (Jack) !!!

And not a Miranda virgin noob HAHA:lol:

Modifié par exterminator , 07 mai 2010 - 07:49 .

[exterminator_]

RareFreak wrote...

Finnegone wrote...

Those LIPS

Agreed.

I like both Paragon and Renegade romances with Jack

If the renegade approach was fixed will be even better ... for renegade romance <3<3<3

[adriano_c]

ME2 isn't really the sort of game that lends itself to holding interest long-term, in my opinion. Way too linear. It was quite a testament to the strength of the characters that so many people stuck around for so long. Apart from them (although to be fair, even the best character thread is suffering from rerun syndrome), there isn't much else that can be discussed that isn't recycled material at this point.

[LiquidGrape]

yorkj86 wrote...

adriano_c wrote...

ME2 isn't really the sort of game that lends itself to holding interest long-term, in my opinion. Way too linear. It was quite a testament to the strength of the characters that so many people stuck around for so long. Apart from them (although to be fair, even the best character thread is suffering from rerun syndrome), there isn't much else that can be discussed that isn't recycled material at this point.

Oh, I know all of this, and it's true.  Bioware's characters tend to last much longer than their games.   Bioware's characters tend to be better than their games, if that makes sense.

It does.
I thought ME2 was rather mediocre as a whole; but many of the characters introduced made it worthwhile.

[adriano_c]

To be perfectly honest, I've found most of Bioware's offerings since BG2 lackluster overall (main plot, characters, staying power, and so forth), and I've bought them all.



Neverwinter Nights - I can't even remember the name of a single party member in this. However, I distinctly remember thinking the main plot was awful; something about collecting stones or rune pieces was it?



Star Wars - I remember an old man named Jolee Bindo (unsure of the proper spelling). Don't remember the plot in the slightest.



Jade Empire - Total blank.



Mass Effect 1 - Hated it initially, but after my second play-through, I suppose it's decent (albeit with severe flaws).



Dragon Age - Uninspired story, great characters.

[DirtyVagrant]

Apologies if it's a repost!

[royceclemens]

Well, slow-down's to be expected. We've stayed on topic and typed in complete sentences for, like, a really long time. You know, for a character who's said to have a truncated LI path and too little in the way of conversation, that's saying a lot.



But nevertheless, there are a buttload of other characters to talk about...



-I could go to the Liara thread, as I'd like to engage at least in some remedial conversation about her. The problem here being that talking about Liara entails talking to Liara fans, among whom the most devout have that heady mix of bitterness and crap-your-pants insane that you just can't find anywhere outside of the old ladies in Tennessee Williams plays. Plus I'm in the very small camp that liked her better in ME2 than ME1, so I'd go over like a fart in church.



-I could go to the Samara thread, even have the sig for the whole solidarity thing between camps, as JohnnyDollar and York have been so damned nice. But again, my views will get me in trouble as while I find Samara the second most interesting character in the game, I find her the second least likeable. And while I believe the two aren't mutually exclusive, folks there might take it the wrong way.



-I could go to the Ta--No, I can't even finish typing that.



So I figure second-hand Jack is better than going anywhere else. But in the interest of keeping the party going...



What's Jack's ME3 entrance? How would you like to meet her again? We've all thought about it, I'm sure.

[Pacifien]

For some reason, really like the hands and feet in that image. Like, more so than anything else about it.

[Derumiel]

Hello, fellow Jack fans!

royceclemens wrote..

-I could go to the Liara thread, as I'd like to engage at least in some remedial conversation about her. The problem here being that talking about Liara entails talking to Liara fans, among whom the most devout have that heady mix of bitterness and crap-your-pants insane that you just can't find anywhere outside of the old ladies in Tennessee Williams plays. Plus I'm in the very small camp that liked her better in ME2 than ME1, so I'd go over like a fart in church.

Ok, thats an interesing view of the Liara thread....
Why not try it inthere? I mean there are mostly nice people and a lot of in-depth discussion. Ok thats just what i see there but...

royceclemens wrote...
So I figure second-hand Jack is better than going anywhere else. But in the interest of keeping the party going...

What's Jack's ME3 entrance? How would you like to meet her again? We've all thought about it, I'm sure.

Just a question here, why call it "secon-hand"? I mean Jack still is an interesting character with a nice fanbase. Sorry if i got something wrong here.

[Pacifien]

There is a certain culture and atmosphere to each character thread that makes me prefer some threads more than others. This has nothing to do with the zealotry of the fans, as I find you can get interesting in-depth discussion about any character even if the topic had been discussed in-depth before. The difference is in how much effort you have to go in maintaining that discussion, either in producing content in such a manner that will respark interest, keeping people focused on the topic without straying off, ignoring those who choose to mock you and/or the topic even while others remain civil, or reducing the level of spam surrounding the topic in the thread. This is more difficult to do in some threads versus others. And come to think of it, does have a little to do with the zealotry of the fans... but not all of it.

Now, how do you keep a thread active and comprehensive for two years when there hasn't been any new information provided about the thread's central character in all those two years? Addition of new blood. Revisiting topics. Speculating beyond the information that can be treated as fact. Using the central theme as the impetus for broader themes. Crazy ideas. Humorous ideas. Cross-referencing topics between threads.

I mean, once I went six months easily discussing the funkadelic nature of a character so minor he didn't even have lines in the movie he was in. Not one-line jokes. Actual discussion.

Okay, the participants of a thread that comprehensive have to be a little bit crazy, too. We don't necessarily have to go there with Jack. Unless you want to challenge me, in which case, I'll do it. Not this weekend, though, I've got things to do.

I wonder if Jack's parents were killed, she was kidnapped, or her parents knew she was destined toward a life in a research facility. Given Cerberus's previous actions, it's probably an easy bet on the first two. But, it would make for an interesting story if it was the last one. Miranda's father was an active supporter of Cerberus until she ran away, but I can certainly see a parent being sadistic enough to willingly give up their child for experimentation if they thought it would lead toward humanity's advancement.

I also wonder why Jack was picked to be Subject Zero. Was she the first biotic obtained? Was she picked randomly from the first pool of biotics obtained? Or did she demonstrate considerable biotic strength even before they started testing on her? I like to think her selection was random because it implies anyone could have been in Jack's place. Some, like Aresh, could have been crazier. Some might have even managed to come out more stable than Jack. Or perhaps, Cerberus could have even come up with an even more powerful biotic had they chosen differently.

Was Gillian Grayson Subject Zero Version 2.0? Were some of the methods used on Jack then applied to Gillian?

Given that Jack specifically chose her place on the Normandy to prevent any through traffic, do you think she came even close to getting to know other members of the crew besides Shepard? The Rock Steady fanfic has its basis on the idea that Jack/Thane is the most absurd pairing imagineable, but you know what I would have liked to have seen? Jack getting to know Tali or Garrus. Not becoming best buddies, but just seeing how the interaction unfolds.

What made Jack want to talk to Miranda in the first place? Sort of makes sense to me if Jack's loyalty mission is done after Miranda's. Otherwise, I can only think she was having a particularly bad day and knew going after the cheerleader would lead to violence. Given that Miranda insists the Teltin facility had gone rogue and ceased to be really Cerberus, had Miranda truly convinced herself that the Illusive Man was incapable of particularly distasteful experimentation? Would she have declared the Cerberus cells from Mass Effect 1 as rogue facilities? She's even shocked that the Illusive Man would dare use Shepard as bait on the Collector Ship. Her opinion of keeping the Collector Base shows she had limits to what she found acceptable for Cerberus. And why is Miranda calling Jack a mistake? Is she saying Jack isn't even worth existence?

Why do you think Jack avoids any quotations for her tattoos?

If Shepard tells Jack she'll get her Cerberus files later, you later see she's managed to get them herself. How do you think she managed to obtain them? How does someone like her hack into a Cerberus database?

Finally, do you think Jack feels the Funk?

[Collider]

If you feel like discussing a character but don't want to wade through the treacherous waters of their character thread, there is always the Character Disccussion Group.

social.bioware.com/group/2009/

[Pacifien]

adriano_c wrote...

To be perfectly honest, I've found most of Bioware's offerings since BG2 lackluster overall (main plot, characters, staying power, and so forth), and I've bought them all.
*snip*

I remember anticipating Neverwinter Nights for years, but when I finally got it, I had no time to use the much hyped modding aspect to the game. So played the game, solved it quickly, then never felt compelled to play it again. When was that, 2001? I have no memory of that game.

Now Knights of the Old Republic I remember very well. I was very much the jaded Star Wars fan. I still am a very jaded Star Wars fan, but when I think about KOTOR, that jaded feeling diminishes and I remember what it meant to enjoy the series. I don't give a damn about Darth Whiner Vader anymore, but I still like to think there is a considerable story surrounding Darth Revan.

I remember somewhat liking Jade Empire, but it was like playing all the fighter console games of yesteryear where you found one fighting combination that worked and then you spammed it until the enemy was dead. That pretty much killed any desire I had to replay the game, so now I can't even remember what the game was about.

I had to foce myself to find any enjoyment out of Dragon Age. I can like the characters, I can like the setting, I somewhat like the gameplay... But I was 3/4ths of the way through the game and still telling my friends that I was truly bored playing it. I muddled through because I bought the game, I started the game, and I'm a Completionist. I wasn't bored so much by the time I made it through to the end, so I thought maybe the game and me had finally clicked. I've started new games half a dozen times, but never completed any of them. The game still bores me. Still determined to play it through one more time eventually.

Obviously, Mass Effect is gold in my world. I like the characters, I like the setting, I like the gameplay, I'm drawn into its world. It might have an edge for being a science fiction setting. I can take a science fiction concept, as feeble as it might be, and run with it. It probably has more going for it than that, I just can't think of what that might be.

[MHRazer]

royceclemens wrote...

Well, slow-down's to be expected. We've stayed on topic and typed in complete sentences for, like, a really long time. You know, for a character who's said to have a truncated LI path and too little in the way of conversation, that's saying a lot.

Yeah, it's slowed down a bit. As you said, to be expected. This reminded me though, anybody know what happened to BobbyTheI? Got bored of the thread, or get banned for poking the Tali fans too much? 

And york, did anything ever come of that artist you commissioned for a piece on Jack?

[royceclemens]

Derumiel wrote...

Hello, fellow Jack fans!

royceclemens wrote..

-I could go to the Liara thread, as I'd like to engage at least in some remedial conversation about her. The problem here being that talking about Liara entails talking to Liara fans, among whom the most devout have that heady mix of bitterness and crap-your-pants insane that you just can't find anywhere outside of the old ladies in Tennessee Williams plays. Plus I'm in the very small camp that liked her better in ME2 than ME1, so I'd go over like a fart in church.

Ok, thats an interesing view of the Liara thread....
Why not try it inthere? I mean there are mostly nice people and a lot of in-depth discussion. Ok thats just what i see there but...

royceclemens wrote...
So I figure second-hand Jack is better than going anywhere else. But in the interest of keeping the party going...

What's Jack's ME3 entrance? How would you like to meet her again? We've all thought about it, I'm sure.

Just a question here, why call it "secon-hand"? I mean Jack still is an interesting character with a nice fanbase. Sorry if i got something wrong here.

Concerning the Liara thread, when I say that, I'm pretty much talking about two people.  I'm not naming names, but I think you know which ones I mean.  Every time I get an itch to post there, I see one of their names at least one or two pages back and decide against it.  Now I'm not against getting into a good old-fashioned argument, but at least eight times out of ten I try to be civil about it, and I know upon whom my civil approach will be lost.

Concerning "second-hand," I meant that we've talked about most of what there is to talk about, and talking about it again I equate to "second-hand"... Until now, apparently as the mighty Pacifen dug up some new stuff.

First off, you're gonna have to eplain Gillian Grayson, should it please the court, as I try to stay away from tie-in material.

And concerning Jack's origin, I'm of the firm (and unpopular belief) that Jack and Miranda were engineered at the same facility, most likely by Mr. Lawson.  After Miranda split, Lawson tried to improve on the formula and Jack was one of the castoffs between Miranda and Oriana.  They had a girl with biotic power that has no connection to the outside world, that means no one would go looking for her.  A risk-free Cerberus investment.