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[deaddecoy]

Jackal904 ...

On your next playthrough you should choose the paragon or neutral options with her (some of the paragon options make you sound like a ****, which she reacts negatively to). You'll feel less like a jerk . There's only two renegede options I pick with Jack. One when she says she wouldn't mind taking the Normandy for a spin, and I tell her "If I took you too seriously I may have to deal with you," just to give her a little of her own tough guy medicine, plus the other dialogue option makes you sound like a wuss. The other renegade option I choose is when she says she's going to use the Cerberus files to find and kill a bunch of people that screwed with her, and I tell her, "I won't let you go on a killing spree." That last one should have been a paragon option imo. I choose that dialogue option because in a way it tells Jack that she needs to get over past. I can't pick any other renegade option with Jack. They make me feel like an insensitive ****, even the ones that still maintain her paragon romance.

Actually I've only gone paragon where necessary, regarding Jack. A lot of the jerk-options turn out quite nicely, e.g.:



S: You have a crappy past get over it.

J: You're right, I am being a whiny baby.



I'm discovering that going renegade is kinda a mixed bag. The paragon route, in general could be classified as chaotic good. There are rarely any choices where he seems too lawful or weak-willed as a paragon. With renegade, the responses range from roguish to psychopathic killer. Jack's dialogue tends to fall in the former category which is nice.

[Little Paw]

adriano_c wrote...

Your post certainly has no trouble espousing it...

Oooh, 50 cent word. Good job. Don't take yourself so seriously, it's a v-i-d-e-o g-a-m-e.
Seriously though, I guess my thought process does not follow a damaged psyche very well, so I messed up the romance by choosing the wrong responses.
In many ways that's pretty realistic.
I more naturally gravitated towards Miranda. Guess I am a Narcissist.

[Jackal904]

deaddecoy wrote...

Actually I've only gone paragon where necessary, regarding Jack. A lot of the jerk-options turn out quite nicely, e.g.:

S: You have a crappy past get over it.
J: You're right, I am being a whiny baby.

I find the neutral option better. He implies the same thing with the neutral option, but in a way that doesn't make him look like an insensitive jerk, imo at least.

It's interesting that you can choose so many renegade dialogue options with Jack and still form a paragon romance with her. Can you do the same with other romances?

Little Paw wrote...

adriano_c wrote...

Your
post certainly has no trouble espousing it...

Oooh, 50
cent word. Good job. Don't take yourself so seriously, it's a v-i-d-e-o
g-a-m-e.
Seriously though, I guess my thought process does not follow
a damaged psyche very well, so I messed up the romance by choosing the
wrong responses.
In many ways that's pretty realistic.
I more
naturally gravitated towards Miranda. Guess I am a Narcissist.

In case you're wondering, you're doing a very bad job at trolling. You're opening yourself up for some easy insults, but I won't waste my time on them.

Modifié par Jackal904, 09 mai 2010 - 09:08 .

[deaddecoy]

It's interesting that you can choose so many renegade dialogue options with Jack and still form a paragon romance with her. Can you do the same with other romances?

I don't know about the other renegade romance options, but choosing the renegade dialogue with Jacob, Mordin, and Grunt turns out ok and sometimes funny.

[Chaos-fusion]

Jackal904 wrote...

It's interesting that you can choose so many renegade dialogue options with Jack and still form a paragon romance with her. Can you do the same with other romances?

If (And this is a rather large if) I remeber correctly, one of the paragon option with Jacob actually kills the romance path. Something with Femshep trying to get him to open up about what happened with his dad, and he got annoyed that she felt it necessary to "fix" him, so he thought it wouldn't work out. I think they did it because alot of the male romances in previous games come across as broken, and needing someone to patch them together and make them talk about their problems to get over them. But that's just speculation on my part..

I may also have completely mis-remembered that because I only did Jacob's romance once.

[Jackal904]

That's actually a renegade option. But there is a paragon option with Tali that ends your romantic relationship with her. Shepard says he doesn't want to risk Tali's health, so he breaks up with her.

[Chaos-fusion]

Huh, show how great my memory is.

[Urdaniel]

Time for a "please don't kill me" moment.  <deep breath>

I just posted the first installment of my Jack/MeerShep fanfic on Fanfiction.net:

Things Worth Keeping

I would greatly appreciate it if the fine folks in this thread who are so inclined would find it in their heart of hearts and their busy schedules to read the first installment and give their opinions and/or critiques, whether in a review over at FFN or in a post here.

Yes I'm bloody nervous to step out from behind the curtain like this.  Between Mondo's proven talent with the written word and the insight of people like royce, york, Jackal, Johnny, Bobby, gneiss, and a whole bunch of folks whose names I've probably missed (and to whom I profusely apologize), I've certainly got a tough row to hoe.

I've no illusions that I've gotten Jack down pat (let alone 100%), but I've tried to keep in mind all the discussions we've had about her in this thread and incorporated them as best as my meager skills will allow.  It may not be obvious in this first installment, but a few of the things tossed about in the 250+ pages of this thread gave me ideas for one-liners and situations that will certainly show up later.  I have consciously tried to avoid treading on territory that Mondo has covered before, whether on her blog or in one of her posts here (although as I said, I've tried to incorporate the insights into Jack's character that Mondo and others have put forward), so that the story can stand on its own merits.

I've given blanket credit to all of you in the author's notes that are at the top of the story page, because if I reach any sort of height at all, it has been by standing on all of your shoulders.  So thank you to all of you, and I once more beg your indulgence.

P.S.  Trolls and flamers need not apply.

[deaddecoy]

Just had Mordin's sex talk about Jack and it was awesome ^^.



Mordin: I'll be here to set broken bones ... suggest padding walls.

[royceclemens]

It's been a while since I came by, let's see what I missed...

Jackal904 wrote...

Little Paw wrote...

adriano_c wrote...

Your
post certainly has no trouble espousing it...

Oooh, 50
cent word. Good job. Don't take yourself so seriously, it's a v-i-d-e-o
g-a-m-e.
Seriously though, I guess my thought process does not follow
a damaged psyche very well, so I messed up the romance by choosing the
wrong responses.
In many ways that's pretty realistic.
I more
naturally gravitated towards Miranda. Guess I am a Narcissist.

In case you're wondering, you're doing a very bad job at trolling. You're opening yourself up for some easy insults, but I won't waste my time on them.

You're right, Jackal, I'm just not feeling this trolling.  I mean, I wish I were, but it's just not working.

Well, to start, this is her third or fourth attempt at trolling in the last couple of months (go digging in the thread and you'll find some hooks she laid out that weren't successfully baited).  It seems that for someone who doesn't care what we think, she sure does care an awful lot what we think.  If there's one turn-off I have with trolls, it's neediness.  Trolls need to take charge, but this?  This is clingy girlfriend crap.

This might be forgiveable if she weren't so abysmally half-assed about it.  She drops a bomb and comes back a day later to respond?  A whole day?  So she either couldn't come up with anything, sat there quivering like a coward or had other stuff to do.  All of which are unacceptable.  Trolling is an full-day activity.  Pretenders stop and pop, but the legends?  The legends clear their day-planner.

Add to all this some stunning self-awareness.  Trolls are supposed to play innocent at first, all 'What?  This is just my opinion!  Why are you being so mean?"  If you come to troll and make it public, you make it easier to debunk and ignore.  I've seen glasses of water that were less transparent than this.  I mean, if ZennExile was stomach cancer than this girl is... I dunno... A zit maybe?  And not even a painful, large or conspicuous zit either.  Just a tiny one on the ankle where no one cares.

Overall, I give this chick a D... Okay, D+.  She can't say we never did anything for her.

Urdaniel wrote...

Time for a "please don't kill me" moment. 

I just posted the first installment of my Jack/MeerShep fanfic on Fanfiction.net:

Things Worth Keeping

The PRINCESS BRIDE reference kinda hit with a clang, but other than that and the afore-mentioned stiffness of the dialogue, I don't have any complaints.  Nice.

[Mondo47]

yorkj86 wrote...

After our discussion of Jane Austen and Jack in a dress, an idea hit me, so I commissioned this from our own Epantiras:

Dawwwwwww!

With respect, Grunt was asking for it...

Epants, another blinding strip there!

[Derumiel]

Hello, Jack fans!

yorkj86 wrote...

After our discussion of Jane Austen and Jack in a dress, an idea hit me, so I commissioned this from our own Epantiras:
*snip*

This is great!

[Pacifien]

Jack looks so pleased with her girly girl dress. Reminds me of Ashley getting defensive because her ability to drill you between the eyes would imply she can't like sensitive stuff.

Wonder where Jack's sensitivity lies. The girly dress? The cathartic art piece? I bet she'd go all Sten and train a kitten to be the ultimate killer.

[Mondo47]

Pacifien wrote...

Jack looks so pleased with her girly girl dress. Reminds me of Ashley getting defensive because her ability to drill you between the eyes would imply she can't like sensitive stuff.
Wonder where Jack's sensitivity lies. The girly dress? The cathartic art piece? I bet she'd go all Sten and train a kitten to be the ultimate killer.

I now have this image of Jack cuddling a wee kitten; some little abandoned thing she kinda identifies with...

And something just fell on me like a ton of bricks. Wow. Gonna have to write this eventually when I'm a little less busy. I do love to tease you guys

[Pacifien]

My friends know me as the least affectionate person on earth. I have trouble figuring out the handshake, much less a hug. Unless there's a kitten involved. Then apparently I'm all "Squeeeee! Kitty!"

If I were Jack, I'd train my kitty to pee on Miranda's bed.

[Urdaniel]

yorkj86 wrote...

The only thing I can say is that you might have been too diligent in implementing the ideas you gathered from this thread, and you let it cause the dialogue to become a bit stiff at points.  It seems to me that you wrote the dialogue from a meta-standpoint, instead of focusing on letting yourself get in to the heads of the characters to determine how they would respond and speak.

royceclemens wrote...

The PRINCESS BRIDE reference kinda
hit with a clang, but other than that and the afore-mentioned stiffness
of the dialogue, I don't have any complaints.  Nice.

Thanks for taking the time to read it.

@royce - I had a feeling the reference was going to do that.  Should've followed my first instinct and not bothered.

@royce and @york - Ah dialogue, my nemesis (along with everything else to lesser and greater degrees, really).  I put that down to my own lack of socializing IRL; despite my walls of text in this thread, I'm not particularly talkative in the outside world, which is why I don't have much of a feel for the rhythms of interpersonal speech.  I'll keep plugging away at it.

@york and @epantiras - Awesome.  I actually laughed out loud at the punchline.

[Epantiras]

Thank you guys for the kind comments about my comic strip!

But all the credits for the clever concept go to Yorkj86 ;-)

[Mondo47]

Urdaniel wrote...

Time for a "please don't kill me" moment. 

I just posted the first installment of my Jack/MeerShep fanfic on Fanfiction.net:

Things Worth Keeping

I would greatly appreciate it if the fine folks in this thread who are so inclined would find it in their heart of hearts and their busy schedules to read the first installment and give their opinions and/or critiques, whether in a review over at FFN or in a post here.

Yes I'm bloody nervous to step out from behind the curtain like this.  Between Mondo's proven talent with the written word and the insight of people like royce, york, Jackal, Johnny, Bobby, gneiss, and a whole bunch of folks whose names I've probably missed (and to whom I profusely apologize), I've certainly got a tough row to hoe.

I've no illusions that I've gotten Jack down pat (let alone 100%), but I've tried to keep in mind all the discussions we've had about her in this thread and incorporated them as best as my meager skills will allow.  It may not be obvious in this first installment, but a few of the things tossed about in the 250+ pages of this thread gave me ideas for one-liners and situations that will certainly show up later.  I have consciously tried to avoid treading on territory that Mondo has covered before, whether on her blog or in one of her posts here (although as I said, I've tried to incorporate the insights into Jack's character that Mondo and others have put forward), so that the story can stand on its own merits.

I've given blanket credit to all of you in the author's notes that are at the top of the story page, because if I reach any sort of height at all, it has been by standing on all of your shoulders.  So thank you to all of you, and I once more beg your indulgence.

P.S.  Trolls and flamers need not apply.

Read. And I liked what I saw. I think I'll want to see more to judge properly (hint hint)

I think Royce has planked all the issues already, not that they're huge or anything. Dialogue is a swine at the best of times, so worry not. You want a tip? Wait until the house is empty and say it to yourself; pace up and down the living room and be all the characters, say all the lines you want to use, and as soon as you stop hearing you and start hearing the character (as nuts as that sounds) you're there.

The amount of time I've spent pacing the house when no-one is about learning to speak Jack...

[Urdaniel]

@ Johnny & @ Mondo:

Thanks very much for the reading, commenting, and the advice.

@everyone

I really do appreciate everything everyone has said and I'm taking all your suggestions to heart.  Day 2 should be up in a few days.  The opening is proving difficult, to say the least (already wrote it twice and haven't been satisfied with it both times). 

[LiquidGrape]

I love the way you draw Jack, Epantiras. Spot on.

[royceclemens]

Urdaniel wrote...

@ Johnny & @ Mondo:

Thanks very much for the reading, commenting, and the advice.

@everyone

I really do appreciate everything everyone has said and I'm taking all your suggestions to heart.  Day 2 should be up in a few days.  The opening is proving difficult, to say the least (already wrote it twice and haven't been satisfied with it both times). 

If I may add my own little bit of dialogue advice, there's an author you might have heard of named Elmore Leonard.  No one in any medium writes better, more natural sounding dialogue.  Pick up three books he's written after THE BIG BOUNCE (all the ones before are westerns).  I'm not gonna tell you which ones, because he's never written a bad book.

Leonard's bread-and-butter is the gulf between how people see themselves and how they really are... Which is kinda the core of Jack.