20813 réponses à ce sujet

[drunken pyromaniac]

mawdudi wrote...

Yea I know most women couldn't pull off Jack look, they would look like ridicilous. Just like most men couldn't pull off Riddick look, they would look like bald eggs.

But there are many women who could pull it off, but they don't even wanna test it. Mainly cos they are afrad of reactions from other people I guess. And they love their hair too much like u said.

IMO everybody should atleast once in their life try long hair and short hair. I know people who have had long/short hair their whole life, but once tested the other end they liked it(and others too) and never went back.

Most people are governed at least to an extent by the opinions of others. Peer pressure and all.

Modifié par drunken pyromaniac, 13 mai 2010 - 11:07 .

[Pacifien]

Other than the fact my mother said she'd cry--and she means it--I haven't shaved my head because then I would look like Charlie Brown.

Always wanted to shave my hair off, though. It's got this otherworldly life of its own.

[axl99]

I had long hair before I chopped it short. Helps to have hairstylists for parents.

[Urdaniel]

Thank you all for your kind words.  I just hope I haven't set the bar too high and end up falling flat on my face with Day 3. 

@Pacifien - Well I figured that Mondo already did the "dinner and parent" thing (and dang well too), so I had to find something else.  Pinnacle was the logical choice for a couple of people who like blowing crap up.

@york - Glad that you think it was an improvement.  I just hope I can live up to it and keep improving (or at least not backslide).  I have some ideas for how they deal with their issues (within the context of the story, not ME as a whole); those are slated for later chapters.  Crossing my fingers that they won't go CLANG (as royce put it in a different context re: Day 1).    By the by, can you point to the specific pieces of dialogue that still came off a bit stilted?  It would help for me to have a clearer idea of just where I took a misstep.

Also, I know that Shep comes off rather p-whipped; my take on it is that he's not asserting himself more because Jack is confrontational enough for the both of them.  That and the fact that Shep is still trying to move away from his Renegade past.  Overall, he's willing to give ground (only to a point; he knows Jack won't respect him if he's too submissive) if it keeps things going on a relatively even keel - he doesn't want to push back too hard and have everything blow up in both their faces.

And as for the nipple rouge - a relic of a misspent youth where I occasionally gained knowledge of things that require brain bleach. 

@Jackal - I agonized over the "funny" bits (mostly that they weren't actually funny) , but in the end I just decided to go with what I wanted to see on the page.  At least they didn't flop (too badly).  I can see where Jack kinda comes off as an alky with that comment of hers.  It wasn't so much that she wanted a drink that early in the day but that she figured Shep might have had a party and didn't invite her.  Of course, later on it's just another of her verbal deflections to keep things from getting any heavier than they already were.  And as for the visor, I agree with the earlier comment (forgot who said it, sorry) that it's fine in combat situations (wouldn't want anything to happen to those eyes) but hate it for cutscenes.

@Johnny & @Jackal - That dream sequence and its aftermath was the most sweated-over, most revised part of the whole thing.  I went through three versions before I found one I liked, and even then I actually rearranged an entire third of it to get the flow right.  I also worried that it was a little tropey and a lot unsubtle, but in the end I thought it was the best way to bring out Shep's background as well as his fears about their relationship.  Then there was my worry that it was simply too early to drop in something that important/significant/weighty.  I'm glad it didn't land with a thud.

@Johnny - Btw, that improvement is why all you lot are credited prominently in the author's notes.  Couldn't have done it (or keep on doing it) without all of you folks' support. 



EDIT: Added a bit more explanation about the dream sequence.

Modifié par Urdaniel, 14 mai 2010 - 01:27 .

[axl99]

Heya Urd, Jack I noticed swears quite a bit in your dialogue at first, although it feels a whole lot more natural towards the last third of the 2nd chapter as she's normally quite blunt - almost terse - with her speech.

Modifié par axl99, 14 mai 2010 - 01:57 .

[Urdaniel]

axl99 wrote...

Heya Urd, Jack I noticed swears quite a bit in your dialogue at first, although it feels a whole lot more natural towards the last third of the 2nd chapter as she's normally quite blunt - almost terse - with her speech.

Thanks for reading, axl.  I may be going a little overboard on the profanity, certainly.  All I'll say in my defense is that I'm still stumbling around quite a bit with this thing. 

[Urdaniel]

yorkj86 wrote...

Did you intend for Jack to seem as if she's a little possessive of Shepard?    From your treatment of her, I got the sense that she was trying to be as nonchalant about her interest in Shepard as possible, but her efforts betrayed her actual feelings.  She likes him, and she doesn't want him to go, and it shows, despite her best efforts.

Said a heck of a lot more concisely than I could have managed.  I was looking at things from the standpoint that Jack is (mostly) convinced that Shep is the 'real deal' and that you don't pass that sort of thing up (especially given all the 'what ifs' surrounding Murtock).  At the same time though, she doesn't want to come off as too needy or clingy, so she ends up going back to putting up a front, as if saying "Yeah I like him, but I'm still in control/got it under control." or, alternatively "I'm nobody's b****, b****."  It also goes back to what's been discussed before in this thread: that once you get Jack caring about something, she's going to defend her turf tooth and nail, and heaven help anyone who gets in the way or tries to hurt what she cares about.

This, incidentally, is also how I see this particular version of Shep being.  He lost a lot on Torfan and Mindoir (the Colonist part of his background is going to see more screentime in the later chapters) and he's very protective of what he's got (echoed lightheartedly when he protects his breakfast from Jack).  The main reason he doesn't hover over Jack like a mother hen is because 1) Jack won't let him (although Jack doesn't mind the odd expression of affection, I tend to think that self-sufficiency is a good chunk of her self-image), 2) he's fully aware that in the vast majority of cases Jack can take care of herself and then some.  He's fully ready to lend a hand or take over should things get too much for her to handle (though more of the former than the latter - as I tend to see them being partners and equals with no real dominant individual in the relationship).

See what I meant about being unable to be concise? 

Modifié par Urdaniel, 14 mai 2010 - 03:26 .

[Jackal904]

Urdaniel wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Did you intend for Jack to seem as if she's a little possessive of Shepard?    From your treatment of her, I got the sense that she was trying to be as nonchalant about her interest in Shepard as possible, but her efforts betrayed her actual feelings.  She likes him, and she doesn't want him to go, and it shows, despite her best efforts.

Said a heck of a lot more concisely than I could have managed.  I was looking at things from the standpoint that Jack is (mostly) convinced that Shep is the 'real deal' and that you don't pass that sort of thing up (especially given all the 'what ifs' surrounding Murtock).  At the same time though, she doesn't want to come off as too needy or clingy, so she ends up going back to putting up a front, as if saying "Yeah I like him, but I'm still in control/got it under control." or, alternatively "I'm nobody's b****, b****."  It also goes back to what's been discussed before in this thread: that once you get Jack caring about something, she's going to defend her turf tooth and nail, and heaven help anyone who gets in the way or tries to hurt what she cares about.

This, incidentally, is also how I see this particular version of Shep being.  He lost a lot on Torfan and Mindoir (the Colonist part of his background is going to see more screentime in the later chapters) and he's very protective of what he's got (echoed lightheartedly when he protects his breakfast from Jack).  The main reason he doesn't hover over Jack like a mother hen is because 1) Jack won't let him (although Jack doesn't mind the odd expression of affection, I tend to think that self-sufficiency is a good chunk of her self-image), 2) he's fully aware that in the vast majority of cases Jack can take care of herself and then some.  He's fully ready to lend a hand or take over should things get too much for her to handle (though more of the former than the latter - as I tend to see them being partners and equals with no real dominant individual in the relationship).

And I think you do a great job of portraying this. This is exactly how I felt both their attitudes were. You do a great job of keeping Jack tough and independent, but able to show compassion and affection. And I think the way you handle Shepard is great. He tries to not be too clingy, and he's having this struggle trying to figure out when he needs to lay off and when he needs to be affectionate, which I think is great and realistic.

Urdaniel wrote...

@Jackal - I agonized over the "funny"
bits (mostly that they weren't actually funny) , but in the end I just
decided to go with what I wanted to see on the page.  At least they
didn't flop (too badly).

I didn't think they flopped at all. I laughed quite a few times throughout the chapter :happy:.

[Epantiras]

Proof that Jack and Miranda can't get along even during missions ;-P

[Jackal904]

There's some unique dialogue in that mission if you bring Miranda. The only one I can think of is right where that picture is taken, when the video log is running. Miranda says something like, "It looks like this facility went rogue", and Jack says, "Yeah you'd want to believe that." Like Miranda is just trying to take some of the blame off of Cerberus.

[Pacifien]

"They went rogue" seems to be the standard response for Cerberus whenever someone calls them on the fact that one of their cells went too far. The division of work into cells, each not knowing what the other is doing, under the direct supervision of someone like Miranda, given a goal and resources by the Illusive Man and told to go do it. The only thing stopping that cell from horrific experimentation is the morality of the person running it, I suspect. Miranda seems to fail at understanding that not everyone in Cerberus has her moral standards. And when things like Teltin happen, the Illusive Man can play innocent by claiming he only gave them a directive, and how they went about achieving it was entirely their own doing, not his.

[Collider]

Virtually all of the cells we ever hear about are also ones that have "gone rogue." Either TIM is incompetent, or the more likely scenario is that he is just bull****ting when he says the cells are rogue.

[Errationatus]

Collider wrote...

Virtually all of the cells we ever hear about are also ones that have "gone rogue." Either TIM is incompetent, or the more likely scenario is that he is just bull****ting when he says the cells are rogue.

That makes perfect sense, Collider.  Even Miranda's cell went rogue.  

[Epantiras]

Pacifien wrote...

"They went rogue" seems to be the standard response for Cerberus whenever someone calls them on the fact that one of their cells went too far.

Or get discovered

[Pacifien]

Epantiras wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
"They went rogue" seems to be the standard response for Cerberus whenever someone calls them on the fact that one of their cells went too far.

Or get discovered

True. Where's the Cerberus cell that Kelly's sister works for that just concentrates on being a dog shelter?

No wait, they probably experiment on the dogs after a set period of time when they don't get adopted.

Okay, the Cerberus cell that researches the ultimate ice cream. Where's that?

[Jackal904]

I believe Miranda will tell you that these "cells" are allowed to go about their business as they see fit, and that each cell is unknown to almost all Cerberus members. It's almost like they're totally seperate groups, yet they still ultimately answer to TIM.

[Collider]

That's a rather poor way of doing things for Cerberus. Most of the cells we ever see have gone horribly wrong. I would think at one point a lightbulb might turn on in TIM's head, but I guess not.

[Pacifien]

Jackal904 wrote...
I believe Miranda will tell you that these "cells" are allowed to go about their business as they see fit, and that each cell is unknown to almost all Cerberus members. It's almost like they're totally seperate groups, yet they still ultimately answer to TIM.

Ultimately answer to the Illusive Man unless he wants to take the approach of plausible deniability. You know, "gone rogue."

I bet for every cell that's "gone rogue," the Illusive Man has still made full use of whatever research they ended up with.

Modifié par Pacifien, 14 mai 2010 - 06:42 .

[Collider]

As for the research facility in Pragia - Miranda through her comments made that seem like from the start they were testing on children - as in that was their mission assignment. That's horrible.

[Pacifien]

Collider wrote...
As for the research facility in Pragia - Miranda through her comments made that seem like from the start they were testing on children - as in that was their mission assignment. That's horrible.

Which is why there has to be a Cerberus cell that researches the ultimate ice cream to give to these children.

I've never actually taken Miranda to Pragia, as I roleplay keeping her and Jack as far apart as possible. I know each squadmate says something when they pass the rooms where they kept the children. What does Miranda say at that part?

[Jackal904]

Yeah I know. What "good thing" were they supposed to be doing? Just experimenting on them and not killing them? That's still bad.

[Collider]

I haven't brought Miranda there either - but I'm sure like every other squad mate she goes "wtf." I did read that Miranda goes "Cerberus couldn't have done this" or some variant thereof and just believes that the cell was rogue.



The comment I was referring to was when I talked to Miranda (in her quarters) about Cerberus. Shepard brings up Jack and the Pragia facility (roughly) "What about Jack and the other children experimented on Pragia?" She says "That was a mistake." From that it seems that they were experimenting on children from the start, but may have pulled the plug when they thought there was little in regards to rewards. I also think mistake is a huge understatement. I wish Shepard could have argued with Miranda about it but instead he just listens and can't say anything else.