20813 réponses à ce sujet

[axl99]

Bah, irrelevant to my interests.

Users there on that forum topic [which I shall not mention] can argue till the cows come home. I think several points made  - while somewhat undeveloped - have already been made in the topic in regards to Jack's unfortunate incident in Purgatory. Most have been ignoring the possible circumstances surrounding it and were simply making off-topic comments.

................... Ok, I'll stop there.

-------------------------------

Didn't some of us talk about that theory thing off-hand? Someone here mentioned that a sizable chunk of Jack fans were either female, artistically-inclined, and already relate to how much BS people can take before they snap? And how much more crap they have to work through to get out of it?

What does that have to do with our capacity to be civil?
Empathy of the highest caliber.

Modifié par axl99, 17 mai 2010 - 03:49 .

[royceclemens]

Thirded. It's discreet theory time.

[Ultai]

Eh, I tried to see if I could explain it in a non gameplay sense in that thread, but oh well. If there's one thing that grinds my gears is people thinking the romance is a cure all. I've always interpreted it as one step in a positive direction for her...Shepard will need alot of patience and understanding in their relationship down the road, I'd imagine.

Part of the reason I like reading Urd's fanfic and one of Mondo's. Poor Shep...he probably doesn't know "how much fun it will be along the way" to use some of his paragon response.

I can understand femshep annoyance with the abrupt end of dialog , but I'm in the same boat with Garrus, 2 conversations then calibrations. Although the argument could be made that he was a squaddie in me1. I assume people are directing their frustration at the writers and not the character itself, but it's hard to tell.

Modifié par Ultai, 17 mai 2010 - 04:55 .

[Pacifien]

Originally confused when Jack told my female Shepard that she wasn't a girls' club kinda gal considering she tells you she's been with plenty of men and women over the years. But then I figure, while she doesn't see a problem having sex with women, she really can't see herself having a truly loving relationship with one. Still, kinda wish the squadmates took the Mordin route and cycled through a bunch of different reasons why they didn't want to talk to Shepard anymore. Wonder what Jack's reasons would be.

No, really, I actually can't think of what random things Jack could say to Shepard. Some writer help me out here.

As for Garrus, I still don't know why his dialogue is so limited compared to every other squadmate. You could say it's because you got to spend time with him in ME1, but the same could be said of Tali and she's got a lot more dialogue than Garrus. Then again, she's always been a chatty one.

[Pacifien]

I suppose hope is as good a reason as any for Jack to keep going. I think she fights each day with a twisted sense of curiosity, wondering to see what's on the other side of every battle she wins. Will it be more or less tragedy? More or less death? More or less power? I don't think she ever truly believed she'd find herself living another day to enjoy a certain level of peace. Being with Shepard is probably the scariest thing she's ever done in her life.

Yeah, no pressure there, Shepard. Don't **** up.

[adriano_c]

yorkj86 wrote...

She turned to crime because it is most accommodating to her world-view.  She thinks that everything is a free-for-all.

Or, she turned to crime, because it was the most accomodating option when faced with her particular surroundings. Everything probably was a free-for-all. I mean, really, look at her circumstances when getting "free". Used and abused by mercenaries, so-called outlaws, all manner of degenerates and low-life. Product of her environment and all that...

Something inside her has kept her moving, though.  She's been in the company of pirates and thieves and murderers but she always reserved for herself the ability to move on.  She must think there's something satisfactory out there, at the end of everything that's happened to her and ever will happen to her.

To be fair, she was/is a strong character. She knew/knows it, as well. That inner strength and self-awareness, combined with the natural striving to live common to the species, would be sufficient explanation for how she "made it", as it were. I actually think that when you meet the character she's at the tail end of her downward spiral, and hope (in the form of some vague and abstract pining for a something better or whatever) is a long way behind her. Not dead, but definitely suppressed for the sake of just "dealing". I suppose that without paragon Shepard that hope never gets reignited and she remains on a collision course with the inevitable violent end...

[Collider]

]Originally confused when Jack told my female Shepard that she wasn't a girls' club kinda gal considering she tells you she's been with plenty of men and women over the years. But then I figure, while she doesn't see a problem having sex with women, she really can't see herself having a truly loving relationship with one.

If this were the case, why can't femShep have the renegade sex? I think that the couple used her but she ended up deciding that she wasn't into women.

Modifié par Collider, 17 mai 2010 - 05:39 .

[Pacifien]

Collider wrote...
If this were the case, why can't femShep have the renegade sex? I think that the couple used her but she ended up deciding that she wasn't into women.

Because the developers are ******.

[Collider]

Pacifien wrote...

Collider wrote...
If this were the case, why can't femShep have the renegade sex? I think that the couple used her but she ended up deciding that she wasn't into women.

Because the developers are ******.

lol

[Pacifien]

adriano_c wrote...
*snip*Not dead, but definitely suppressed for the sake of just "dealing". I suppose that without paragon Shepard that hope never gets reignited and she remains on a collision course with the inevitable violent end...

Reading this reminded me of Jack's last words if you choose her to be the second fire team leader. "...I wasn't supposed to care."

[Collider]

Hmm...
****
******

Makes perfect sense, Bioware.

Modifié par Collider, 17 mai 2010 - 05:51 .

[adriano_c]

Collider wrote...

]Originally confused when Jack told my female Shepard that she wasn't a girls' club kinda gal considering she tells you she's been with plenty of men and women over the years. But then I figure, while she doesn't see a problem having sex with women, she really can't see herself having a truly loving relationship with one.

If this were the case, why can't femShep have the renegade sex? I think that the couple used her but she ended up deciding that she wasn't into women.

I've noticed this supposed "extensive lesbian history" has been overstated a few times. She, in fact, never tells you that she's "been with plenty of women over the years." Taking an anecdotal (and presumed) threesome with a man and his girlfriend/wife to mean anything more than what it is at face value doesn't make much sense to me.

Either way, I always took the "girls' club" line to be reference to her dislike for female company, in a platonic sense, and not some rejection of a female romance. That just seems to have been ignored, in my opinion.

[Pacifien]

adriano_c wrote...
I've noticed this supposed "extensive lesbian history" has been overstated a few times. She, in fact, never tells you that she's "been with plenty of women over the years." Taking an anecdotal (and presumed) threesome with a man and his girlfriend/wife to mean anything more than what it is at face value doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm pretty sure she mentions having been with her share of men and women over the years. Not necessarily in that conversation about the couple she hung out with.

Where's BobbyTheI and his Jack soundfiles when I need them?

[Collider]

I've noticed this supposed "extensive lesbian history" has been overstated a few times.

That's definitely true. I see that all the time. I think some people were not considering that people can experiment (assuming that there was a threesome) without actually being attracted in the end. That's basically the only thing remotely close to her being with another woman, IIRC.

There are lines recorded in the game for Jack romance with femShep (there are recorded lines for same sex romances for every character aside from Jacob, but then we might find some for him), but in the end I think Jack is straight. After all, there is no point to making fictional characters bisexual in these sort of games if their romance does not include both genders.

Modifié par Collider, 17 mai 2010 - 05:56 .

[Pacifien]

Collider wrote...
There are lines recorded in the game for Jack romance with femShep (there are recorded lines for same sex romances for every character aside from Jacob, but then we might find some for him), but in the end I think Jack is straight. After all, there is no point to making fictional characters bisexual in these sort of games if their romance does not include both genders.

I've known people who are bisexual in regards to sex, but only have relationships with one gender. It's a separation of sex and love, I suppose. Jack tends to remind me of those people not just in terms of sexuality, but in general free spirit. Social rules do not exist.

[Collider]

I've known people who are bisexual in regards to sex, but only have relationships with one gender.

I know that's very possible. But I think the fact that femShep can't do the renegade sex with her is important.

[adriano_c]

Pacifien wrote...

I'm pretty sure she mentions having been with her share of men and women over the years. Not necessarily in that conversation about the couple she hung out with.

Actually, I just went through each of the character's dialogue scenes a few hours ago looking for screen cap opportunities...

The only thing that I came across which might suggest an openness to a female relationship (aside from the aforementioned story) is a rather offhand remark about "not having a boyfriend or a girlfriend."

[Pacifien]

adriano_c wrote...
The only thing that I came across which might suggest an openness to a female relationship (aside from the aforementioned story) is a rather offhand remark about "not having a boyfriend or a girlfriend."

Well, I reject your reality and substitute my own.

[adriano_c]

yorkj86 wrote...

Choronzon: "I am Anti-Life, the Beast of Judgement. I am the dark at the end of everything. The end of universes, gods, worlds…of everything. And what will you be then, Dreamlord?"

Dream:  "I am hope."

Choronzon:"  Oh.  Then I am...I...I...I...don't know."

What on earth is this...

Pacifien wrote...
Well, I reject your reality and substitute my own. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Fine!!

Modifié par adriano_c, 17 mai 2010 - 06:09 .

[Epantiras]

adriano_c wrote...
Either way, I always took the "girls' club" line to be reference to her dislike for female company, in a platonic sense, and not some rejection of a female romance. That just seems to have been ignored, in my opinion.

This, and probably because Jack can't handle friendships and/or believes that everyone wants her for "the sex and the biotics" (i.e. she mistakes FemShep's interest as a sexual interest). Since she's starting to respect FemShep, she wants to sever all connections because she's afraid of ruining it all IMO.

OR

The devs thought that lesbian romance with Kelly (and Samara) were enough <_<

Modifié par Epantiras, 17 mai 2010 - 08:41 .

[axl99]

Jack: "I've been with lots of people. If you're talking about a girlfriend or a boyfriend. No. It's a waste of time and it never works."

---------------------------

I believe this was the line you guys were lookin' for.

Modifié par axl99, 17 mai 2010 - 02:11 .

[Pacifien]

That probably is the line, and I interpreted it as an admission of several bisexual experiences. Guess it can be interpreted both ways, with her dismissal of a relationship with female Shepard lending more credence to her sticking to the boys. I still think of her as bisexual... with a deep-rooted lust for Miranda.