20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Mondo47]

Pacifien wrote...

That probably is the line, and I interpreted it as an admission of several bisexual experiences. Guess it can be interpreted both ways, with her dismissal of a relationship with female Shepard lending more credence to her sticking to the boys. I still think of her as bisexual... with a deep-rooted lust for Miranda.

Oh, you villain

Though I somehow imagine that if it ever happened, while Jack is lighting her post-coital cigarette Miri will be staring at the ceiling with a smile on her face you couldn't take off with a jackhammer and a distinct inability to stand up steadily for a half hour - something known as the Bambi Effect to those in the know... something tells me Miri's probably never taken a ride on that bus before, Jeebus help her if that was her introduction instead of some fey little Asari

But yes, I've always read that line the same way, Paci, largely because if you just have one orientation, why even bother mentioning another (when it could be taken as a bi go-signal if you're hetro and the person you're talking to isn't). She might not be someone that has only done it as a group thing (thus explaining her lack of girl\\girl romance) or she's just reached a point where she's made her mind up now.

[Collider]

I don't think her comment about not having a boyfriend or girlfriend really confirms that she's bisexual. Truthfully speaking, if she were, there'd be little reason not to have her open to femSheps, at least for the renegade sex (for which I've heard recorded lines for). Someone like Jack I can see as experimenting to figure out who she is sexually, but then deciding that women aren't for her in that way. Just my two cents.

[Nivenus]

Collider wrote...

I don't think her comment about not having a boyfriend or girlfriend really confirms that she's bisexual. Truthfully speaking, if she were, there'd be little reason not to have her open to femSheps, at least for the renegade sex (for which I've heard recorded lines for). Someone like Jack I can see as experimenting to figure out who she is sexually, but then deciding that women aren't for her in that way. Just my two cents.

Doesn't she talk about sharing a bed with a pirate couple once though? Sounds like a menage a troi to me.

[Collider]

Nivenus wrote...

Collider wrote...

I don't think her comment about not having a boyfriend or girlfriend really confirms that she's bisexual. Truthfully speaking, if she were, there'd be little reason not to have her open to femSheps, at least for the renegade sex (for which I've heard recorded lines for). Someone like Jack I can see as experimenting to figure out who she is sexually, but then deciding that women aren't for her in that way. Just my two cents.

Doesn't she talk about sharing a bed with a pirate couple once though? Sounds like a menage a troi to me.

She also says that she was used by them. I don't want to get into details but she doesn't actually have to *do* anything to the person of the same gender. It's also possible she gave it a try but realized that wasn't for her.

[Nivenus]

Point. I read it as kind of bisexual, but she may prefer heterosexual relationships (sort of how Leliana is implied to prefer lesbian ones).

[Collider]

Nivenus wrote...

Point. I read it as kind of bisexual, but she may prefer heterosexual relationships (sort of how Leliana is implied to prefer lesbian ones).

But then that leaves the question of why femShep can't have the renegade sex if Jack is bisexual but prefers to have males for relationships.

Modifié par Collider, 17 mai 2010 - 07:06 .

[Nivenus]

Collider wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

Point. I read it as kind of bisexual, but she may prefer heterosexual relationships (sort of how Leliana is implied to prefer lesbian ones).

But then that leaves the question of why femShep can't have the renegade sex if Jack is bisexual but prefers to have males for relationships.

It does, doesn't it?

[Collider]

Nivenus wrote...

Collider wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

Point. I read it as kind of bisexual, but she may prefer heterosexual relationships (sort of how Leliana is implied to prefer lesbian ones).

But then that leaves the question of why femShep can't have the renegade sex if Jack is bisexual but prefers to have males for relationships.

It does, doesn't it?

I think that if a character has a romance, but that romance doesn't allow x gender, then saying that they are still attracted to that x gender is rather silly.

[Epantiras]

Mondo47 wrote...
 Miri will be staring at the ceiling with a smile on her face you couldn't take off with a jackhammer

Miranda ALWAYS has a smile "you can't take off even with a jackhammer" (was it a pun?)



Please Miranda fans, don't hate me

Collider wrote...

But then that leaves the question of why
femShep can't have the renegade sex if Jack is bisexual but prefers to
have males for relationships.

Remember the big Casey Hudson interview?
"There is no homosexual romance in Mass Effect 2"

Yeahhh, of course... <_< I bet he also said that Mass Effect 2 had an extensive inventory and a helmet on/off toggle

Modifié par Epantiras, 17 mai 2010 - 07:13 .

[Nivenus]

Collider wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

Collider wrote...

But then that leaves the question of why femShep can't have the renegade sex if Jack is bisexual but prefers to have males for relationships.

It does, doesn't it?

I think that if a character has a romance, but that romance doesn't allow x gender, then saying that they are still attracted to that x gender is rather silly.

All I'm saying is that there's a canonical basis for saying Jack's bi. That doesn't really exist for any of the other LIs that aren't already explicitly bi (Liara and Kelly).

[Urdaniel]

Thanks again for all the comments, folks.  Currently working on Day 4, and just like Day 2 before it, it's being a cast-iron b**** to write.  Something about the even-numbered days apparently. 

The Mordin sequence was inspired by the motivational Mondo posted here a while back (and the Anderson Suite reference is also a nod to Mondo, in case anyone hasn't read her blog entry with Jack, Tali, and Miranda).  There are a few more little homages to the thread yet to come; hoping they'll go over fine.

And just to get my stance on the Ash question perfectly clear - it never got very far.  Hence the 'what if' line.

Switching gears to the current topic of discussion, i.e., Jack's gender preferences, etc., I was also always under the impression that she had at least dabbled in same-sex encounters - whether in the context of a menage or otherwise.  Of course, that could have just been my interpretation of dialogue-based evidence based on my own biases, since the dialogue never actually sets anything in stone.  I really would have liked my FemSheps to have a chance (and I've said as much before), if only because Jack's Romance path is head and shoulders above the others (imo anyway), but I understand the decision to not go the easy and tropey path.  Still, the more I write this fanfic, the more I find that I don't mind not being able to.     I'll stop babbling now.  Not enough sleep = not much sense.  

[Collider]

Nivenus wrote...

Collider wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

Collider wrote...

But then that leaves the question of why femShep can't have the renegade sex if Jack is bisexual but prefers to have males for relationships.

It does, doesn't it?

I think that if a character has a romance, but that romance doesn't allow x gender, then saying that they are still attracted to that x gender is rather silly.

All I'm saying is that there's a canonical basis for saying Jack's bi.

Depends what you mean by basis. I don't think it makes those statements logical or proven. I mean I saw Jack as possibly having experimented based upon her circumstances, but many young people have experimented and later realized that they were not attracted to a gender they had experimented with.

[Nivenus]

Johnny Dollar wrote...

There's canonical basis for subjective opinion, for saying Jack's bi.

Cool down, I was just saying that there's evidence. Not proof.

Modifié par Nivenus, 17 mai 2010 - 07:21 .

[Nivenus]

EDIT: Double post.

Modifié par Nivenus, 17 mai 2010 - 07:21 .

[Jackal904]

Pacifien wrote...

Collider wrote...
If this were the case, why can't femShep have the renegade sex? I think that the couple used her but she ended up deciding that she wasn't into women.

Because the developers are ******.

I'm glad BioWare didn't make Jack a lesbian. It would have been too stereotypical, and it would become a joke. Plus why would Jack assume that femShep just wants to have sex with her? It makes complete sense that she would ask maleShep, but not femShep. That would just be weird to hear Jack say, "If this is about sex, maybe you should just ****ing say so", to femShep.

And I don't think Jack was ever into women. She implies that she had a threesome with a guy and another girl, not full blown lesbian sex. And there's some ambiguity in that statement of hers. She doesn't make it completely clear that she had sex with either of them. And that "relationship" didn't last long because she killed them as soon as she became suspicious of them.

adriano_c wrote...

Either way, I always took the "girls' club" line to be reference to her dislike for female company, in a platonic sense, and not some rejection of a female romance.

This exactly what I thought. She just doesn't like hanging out with girls.

Modifié par Jackal904, 17 mai 2010 - 07:44 .

[LiquidGrape]

Jackal904 wrote...

I'm glad BioWare didn't make Jack a lesbian. It would have been too stereotypical, and it would become a joke. Plus why would Jack assume that femShep just wants to have sex with her? It makes complete sense that she would ask maleShep, but not femShep. That would just be weird to hear Jack say, "If this is about sex, maybe you should just ****ing say so", to femShep.

Are we really going to go there again?
Sure. That danger is a legitimate concern. But Jack was rounded enough not to just pass for the proverbial "****** of the hour".
What is a joke is that she indirectly suggests an open attitude when she's asked the question whether she's had a partner previously, and she replies "What, a boyfriend or a girlfriend?"
Had she not phrased that in binary, no femshep would've been surprised when faced with the cold shoulder.

[drunken pyromaniac]

I always figured her bi experiences were like Collider said, because she was being used. Not necessarilly because she actually was into it.

[Jackal904]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

I'm glad BioWare didn't make Jack a lesbian. It would have been too stereotypical, and it would become a joke. Plus why would Jack assume that femShep just wants to have sex with her? It makes complete sense that she would ask maleShep, but not femShep. That would just be weird to hear Jack say, "If this is about sex, maybe you should just ****ing say so", to femShep.

Are we really going to go there again?
Sure. That danger is a legitimate concern. But Jack was rounded enough not to just pass for the proverbial "****** of the hour".
What is a joke is that she indirectly suggests an open attitude when she's asked the question whether she's had a partner previously, and she replies "What, a boyfriend or a girlfriend?"
Had she not phrased that in binary, no femshep would've been surprised when faced with the cold shoulder.

Exactly, indirectly. She never makes it clear whether or not she is bisexual. So it shouldn't be surprising when you find out she isn't bisexual, because it was never clear in the first place.

But honestly, I think the reason she says, "a boyfriend or a girlfriend?" is incase BioWare wanted to make her a lesbian romance option. I believe they intentionally made her sexual orientation ambiguous so that if they eventually decided to make her bisexual they wouldn't have to change any dialogue.

[jlb524]

Oh, the 'is Jack bi' debate is a fun one.



I don't know, but it appears as it stands that the writers added in f/f sex in her past story to give her more of an 'edge' or make her seem more troubled. I don't appreciate that one bit, no siree!

[LiquidGrape]

jlb524 wrote...

Oh, the 'is Jack bi' debate is a fun one.

I don't know, but it appears as it stands that the writers added in f/f sex in her past story to give her more of an 'edge' or make her seem more troubled. I don't appreciate that one bit, no siree!

Ah, yes. The House M.D syndrome.
"Hey, this doctor, she's really troubled so she sleeps around with girls. But then this handsome male doctor comes around, and BOOM, baby! She's back on the straight and narrow!
Literally."

But my point, Jackal, is that I did find it quite surprising to be so nonchalantly tossed aside as a femshep; considering that rather transparent hint at an affinity for relations in both "camps", so to speak.
I'd say it's more than just wishful thinking.
Also, when that sudden wall of silence shows up, it's not a complete non sequitur for that reason alone, but also considering you've had the non-too-subtle opportunity to address Jack with a dialogue option titled "You fascinate me".

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 17 mai 2010 - 08:12 .

[The Uncanny]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

I always figured her bi experiences were like Collider said, because she was being used. Not necessarilly because she actually was into it.

The point is that we don't know either way.

Jackal904 wrote...

I'm glad BioWare didn't make Jack a
lesbian. It would have been too stereotypical, and it would become a
joke. Plus why would Jack assume that femShep just wants to have sex
with her? It makes complete sense that she would ask maleShep, but not
femShep. That would just be weird to hear Jack say, "If this is about
sex, maybe you should just ****ing say so", to femShep.

A joke? What?

So... wait. We're actually saying that the way a woman chooses to look
therefore instantly makes her a stereotype? I'll never accept that. It's
monumentally insulting.

Let's say I've chosen to
express myself with some body art. Perhaps I like having my hair very
short. Maybe I even wear large boots and a lot of black clothes. Oh
noes! I'm instantly a stereotype! Should I hang my head in shame?
Perhaps I should get a boyfriend so that I don't disgrace the other lesbians?

And why should it be so odd for FemShep to want to have a sexual tryst with Jack? You're seriously suggesting that this is something only men should want to do? Nonsense.