20813 réponses à ce sujet

[LiquidGrape]

jlb524 wrote...

I think the stereotype that's possibly there now (of the straight woman who only has sex with women b/c she is troubled/wants to be cool/wants to please men/all of the above) is far worse than the stereotype that would exist if Jack was bisexual. The former trivializes f/f sexuality and relationships, the latter could be bad if Jack was a one-dimensional character and her romance shallow...she/it is not.

[The Uncanny]

jlb524 wrote...

I think the stereotype that's possibly there now (of the straight woman who only has sex with women b/c she is troubled/wants to be cool/wants to please men/all of the above) is far worse than the stereotype that would exist if Jack was bisexual. The former trivializes f/f sexuality and relationships, the latter could be bad if Jack was a one-dimensional character and her romance shallow...she/it is not.

This.

[Collider]

The files are in the game (as they are with every love interest besides Jacob), so if you want F/F with Jack you just need to do a little modding.

[jlb524]

I love that gif LG!

[axl99]

Let's not forget the guys who play femme Sheps in the hopes of girl/girl action. I say they got trolled by BW.

[Collider]

axl99 wrote...

Let's not forget the guys who play femme Sheps in the hopes of girl/girl action. I say they got trolled by BW.

They can deal with it. I don't sympathize much with dudes who just play female characters to see lesbian action. If they really want it they can just mod the game, some of lines are already recorded for Shepard.

Modifié par Collider, 17 mai 2010 - 11:47 .

[adriano_c]

I'm curious, actually, about the whole dialogue recording process. Is there any particular (technical or otherwise) reason that they would have both the male and female Shepard actors record every line? I mean, reasonably, BW can't have intended all six (or was it minus Jacob?) "love interest" characters to be bisexual?

[axl99]

Yeah, and there's that huge forum response in regards to the lack of same sex romance in ME2. Some people didn't take it too well, and may be way too lazy to figure out this modding thing for themselves.



But back to the discussion, I could care less whether it's stereotypical for Jack to be bisexual, bi-curious or whatever. It's how she - or rather the devs - handled the issue that matters most.



In regards to Jack's girl's club response to femme Shep, both of them could've used a couple more sentences, just to clear the air a little and make her comment seem less abrupt.

[Collider]

adriano_c wrote...

I'm curious, actually, about the whole dialogue recording process. Is there any particular (technical or otherwise) reason that they would have both the male and female Shepard actors record every line? I mean, reasonably, BW can't have intended all six (or was it minus Jacob?) "love interest" characters to be bisexual?

It's more efficient for Shepard to record several lines in one session. I do agree - having them all* be bisexual would be overkill. That is why I think they recorded these lines simply in case they decided x character would be bisexual. Covering all your bases, basically.

*I've heard all of the same sex lines for every romance aside from Jacob. It's possible that there are some Male Shepard lines talking to Jacob, but I've never heard them.

[Jackal904]

jlb524 wrote...

I think the stereotype that's possibly there now (of the straight woman who only has sex with women b/c she is troubled/wants to be cool/wants to please men/all of the above) is far worse than the stereotype that would exist if Jack was bisexual. The former trivializes f/f sexuality and relationships, the latter could be bad if Jack was a one-dimensional character and her romance shallow...she/it is not.

I very much disagree. The "stereotype" that you say currently exists with her is not remotely as signficant and obvious as the tough butchy chick who is bisexual. But I don't think we're getting anywhere by argueing. No ones view is going to change. So all we can do is agree to disagree.

[jlb524]

adriano_c wrote...

I'm curious, actually, about the whole dialogue recording process. Is there any particular (technical or otherwise) reason that they would have both the male and female Shepard actors record every line? I mean, reasonably, BW can't have intended all six (or was it minus Jacob?) "love interest" characters to be bisexual?

I think they just have one gender-neutral master script both Hale and Meer read from.  This way, they don't have to worry about managing two separate scripts or worry about missing dialog, especially considering there's not much dialog difference for a FemShep vs. DudeShep (except the romances).  

The existence of same-sex recorded dialog doesn't mean that character was intended to ever be bisexual...it's just how BW does it.

[Collider]

This is typical isn't it? There is quite a bit of unused dialog other than s/s dialog isn't there?

It is very typical. There's plenty of unused dialog that has nothing to do with the romances whatsoever. For some reason most games have unused stuff in the files.

[adriano_c]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

This is typical isn't it?  There is quite a bit of unused dialog other than s/s dialog isn't there?

There's a lot of unused dialogue, period, yeah. Shame too, as there's a lot of great material left sitting on the disc that would have been great in-game.

jlb524 -

Yeah, that single master script idea makes sense.

-edit.

Oh, and JohnnyDollar...we're still waiting for your theory from a few pages back.

Modifié par adriano_c, 18 mai 2010 - 12:21 .

[Collider]

Here are some questions for you all, for discussion.



1. What did you do with that dude in Jack's loyalty mission who wanted to do the experiments again?

2. What do you think about Jack's default outfit?

3. What is your preferred romance conclusion for Jack in ME3? Ambiguous? Conclusive?

4. How do you think Jack would get along with Kaidan, Ashley, or Liara?

6. Assuming there is (hopefully) banter in ME3, who would you most like to see Jack bantering with?

7. What did you do in the Jack v. Miranda fight and why?

8. Is there anything you especially agree or disagree with Jack in terms of her views?

9. Do you think Jack and Grunt could be friends?

10. What do you foresee in terms of Jack and Miranda? Will they ever put aside their differences?

11. What do you want to do with the Illusive Man?

12. Did you destroy or rewrite the Heretics?

13. Is your Shepard paragon or renegade? Or maybe Paragade, Neutral, or Renegon? Why?

[adriano_c]

A lot of questions. Off the top of your head?

[Collider]

Yes, they are off the top of my head.

[MHRazer]

[quote]Collider wrote...

Here are some questions for you all, for discussion.

1. What did you do with that dude in Jack's loyalty mission who wanted to do the experiments again?[/quote]
I let him live. He probably dies anyway when the whole place gets blown to hell a few minutes later.
[quote]
2. What do you think about Jack's default outfit?
[/quote]
To be honest, I like it. It's unique to say the least, and you get to see all the awesome tattoos. I don't find the "nipple halter" as off-putting as some people seem to. 
[quote]
3. What is your preferred romance conclusion for Jack in ME3? Ambiguous? Conclusive?
[/quote]
I'd like it to be fairly conclusive. They don't need to say "Jack went on to marry Shepard. They had 2 children named Bo and Figgins, lived together for 50 years, moved to Florida, and died." - but some idea of how everything ended up would be nice. Provided they make a good ending, that is 
[quote]
4. How do you think Jack would get along with Kaidan, Ashley, or Liara?
[/quote]
Unfortunately still haven't played ME1. Going to guess "poorly," since socialization isn't Jack's strong point. But I really have no idea. 
[quote]
6. Assuming there is (hopefully) banter in ME3, who would you most like to see Jack bantering with?
[/quote]
Grunt. They could be hilarious together. Also Samara, since their interactions would be interesting given that Samara may feel compelled to kill Jack for about half of the stuff she does.  We talked about Samara/Jack interactions at length a little while back.
[quote]
7. What did you do in the Jack v. Miranda fight and why?
[/quote]
I side with Jack because Miranda is a total **** in that conversation. 
[quote]
8. Is there anything you especially agree or disagree with Jack in terms of her views?
[/quote]
Actually I rather like Jack's view of the world. Some stuff she has a little twisted, but mostly that's just a front. Deep down she has things pretty well figured out, and given better circumstances she would likely be very well centered and have a good head on her shoulders.
[quote]
9. Do you think Jack and Grunt could be friends?
[/quote]
Hell yes. Some of the fanfics/stories you guys have posted have proven as much.
[quote]
10. What do you foresee in terms of Jack and Miranda? Will they ever put aside their differences?
[/quote]
With Miranda somewhat turning aside Cerberus at the end of the game with the Collector base decision, I think she might begin to admit that what Cerberus did to Jack was messed up. I honestly think an apology/admission out of Miranda would be appreciated by Jack, and would go a long way towards them not wanting to kill each other. 
[quote]
11. What do you want to do with the Illusive Man?
[/quote]
Poke him in the eye with my fist.
[quote]
12. Did you destroy or rewrite the Heretics?
[/quote]
Done both, still can't decide which is more "right." 
[quote]
13. Is your Shepard paragon or renegade? Or maybe Paragade, Neutral, or Renegon? Why?[/quote]
I can't do full renegade. My current one is pretty neutral, taking choices from both sides fairly equally. I usually do the neutral route, or full (mostly) Paragon. 

Modifié par MHRazer, 18 mai 2010 - 01:02 .

[Collider]

I'd go but 4chan is a cesspool of scum and villainy.

[axl99]

To answer Collider's questions:

1. Spared Aresh. Though I'd think it's ironic that blowing up the facility may have killed him anyway. Even if he survives, there's not much he can live for.

2. I thought Jack's default outfit was outrageously awesome and outlandish. A brave design attempt that shows off all her scars peeking out from her tattoos. As an artist, I was impressed by the sheer amount of visual storytelling Matt Rhodes tried to put on her concept illustrations.

3. Doesn't matter to me, I'm more interested in seeing Jack actually being happy in either situation. That woman rarely smiles, but when she does she practically glows.

4. I think Jack might be able to work with Kaidan and Ashley on a professional level seeing as they're both anti-Cerberus and if they're willing to work with a reknowned criminal. However, I don't think she has much incentive to want to know them on a personal level. Liara on the other hand has her history with Cerberus and a deep-seated sense of self loathing of herself and the things she's done, something that Jack can easily relate to. I tend to think that Jack would be more inclined on testing herself against Liara in a one-on-one biotic-fueled sparring match.

6. I'd love to see Jack banter with everyone. It would be pure comedic gold.

7. Though I was tempted to talk Miranda down, I chose the charm path in getting both her and Jack to settle down. Partly because I didn't like wasting time in resolving conflicts and they were both being unprofessional, and partly because the team had more urgent priorities to attend to anyway. It doesn't matter who started the fight, the Normandy in the middle of space is the worst place to have one break out.

8. I empathize with Jack, however she also needs to understand Miranda's point of view even if it frustrates her that Miranda may not do the same for her. The databases [and EDI, if she bothered] should've told her everything she really needed to know. I disagree with Jack threatening physical harm, she's better than that. Miranda shouldn't be the person Jack should aim her hatred at. It should be the Illusive Man.

9. Oh hell yes.

10. If they finally stop throttling each other long enough to empathize, maybe. As different as their personalities are, they do share certain similarities. Although even if Miranda quits Cerberus, it's not like she's changed immediately. It's going to take a lot for both Jack and Miranda to start trusting each other. I know I'd pay money to see them duke it out on some deserted planet somewhere. Some people tend to get along better with their fists.

11. Turn him into grey mush DNA feed then pump it into his pet Reaper human that I'll blow up with the Cain.

12. Rewrite. They've already been unwittingly manipulated and reprogrammed by the Reapers. One more time shouldn't hurt.

13. Paragrade. My Shepard is a bit of a realist who sees the world in shades of grey, but ultimately hates being unable to help protect the people around him and does whatever's possible to not make it happen.

Modifié par axl99, 18 mai 2010 - 02:45 .