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[adriano_c]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

If I recall correctly, it was about the civility of discussion in this character thread as compared to the other character threads.  Well, it is more of an opinion than a theory actually.  I'll answer with a series of questions and one statement.

Which members in the forum are intrigued by cerebral discussion about characters in their respective threads?
Which members in the forum are more interested in posting  (<3<3:wub: & screenshots) , rather than more in depth discusion about the various characters in their respective threads?

Civil mature discussion between members, attracts members who are interested in mature civil discussion.  Uncivil immature discussion between members, attracts members who are interested in immature uncivil discussion.

Which members on the forum here are more likely to engage in immature uncivil discussion vs mature civil discussion?

What is attractive to the Jack character to the frequenters of this thread, as compared to the attractiveness of the other characters to the frequenters of their respective threads? 

JohnnyDollar wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
I go to a lot of character theads and the people here are usally the most civil. It's funny that the most uncivilized squadmate has the most civil fans.

Yeah I hear you.  Well, I have my own theory on why this is the case with the Jack thread, and it's similar to the Samara thread as well.  I am pretty outspoken in nature though, and probably would draw unnecessary attention to the Jack thread if I posted it.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]  I am sure several frequenters in here know exactly where I am coming from though, without me spelling it out.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]  

You never answered the 'Why?' though...that's what piqued curiosity!!

-edit for formating. Also, you can't just say "it's more civil in here...because the fans are more mature" and offer no explanation for why this is the case... Afterall, the comment was "the most uncivil character has the most civil fans"!

Modifié par adriano_c, 18 mai 2010 - 03:27 .

[SpiderFan1217]

adriano_c wrote...

You never answered the 'Why?' though...that's what piqued curiosity!!

-edit for formating. Also, you can't just say "it's more civil in here...because the fans are more mature" and offer no explanation for why this is the case... Afterall, the comment was "the most uncivil character has the most civil fans"!

The fans are more mature because there is less bull being posted for no reason. The Tali thread ( I'm not saying anything against them. I go there often. The people are cool... mostly.) is filled with stuff that has no reason being there. And when people disuss things here they don't resort to flaming. They simply agree to disagree and move on to the next topic. (My first posts in this thread is a prime example. We were talking about the psycopath label that Jack was given.) I say it's more civil here because I don't have to put up with a lot of bull, and posters here tend to have serious discussions about the character and her makeup.

The fact that ,Jack, a swearing, murdering, and all around uncivil person has the most civil fans is ammusing to me. (I'm not sure I understand what your asking me? If I didn't get it, I may never. Try to clarify if you want.)

[adriano_c]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

The fans are more mature because there is less bull being posted for no reason. The Tali thread ( I'm not saying anything against them. I go there often. The people are cool... mostly.) is filled with stuff that has no reason being there. And when people disuss things here they don't resort to flaming. They simply agree to disagree and move on to the next topic. (My first posts in this thread is a prime example. We were talking about the psycopath label that Jack was given.) I say it's more civil here because I don't have to put up with a lot of bull, and posters here tend to have serious discussions about the character and her makeup.

The fact that ,Jack, a swearing, murdering, and all around uncivil person has the most civil fans is ammusing to me. (I'm not sure I understand what your asking me? If I didn't get it, I may never. Try to clarify if you want.)

I wasn't asking you anything. I was asking JohnnyDollar.

You mentioned the irony of Jack being an uncivil character with a civil fanbase. He said he had a theory to explain this.

I asked why? He basically said "it's more mature in here", which doesn't actually mean anything (with respect to the aforementioned).

[adriano_c]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Do you think that admirers of a particular character,  share the same profile of the character?

Do I think Jack fans share common traits (personality wise, demographically, whatever)?

I haven't been able to glean anything like that from reading the thread regularly. Maybe pattern recognition isn't my strong suit!

However, stop avoiding the issue at hand!

"The most uncivil character has the most civil fanbase."

"I have a theory on why this is the case."

WHAT'S THE THEORY!!?

[royceclemens]

To answer Collider's questions...



1. Spared.Cerberus built her to kill. The only way to really beat them is for her to start sparing people.



2. See #7.



3. Conclusive. Call me a sucker for a happy ending, but between her horrible past and my having spent somewhere north of two hundred bucks on these games by the time all shall be said and done, they better provide a sunset for Jack and Shepard to walk off into.



4. Lose patience with Liara, warm up to Ashley, squadmate romance with Kaidan (if BW deigns to do such a thing if you've romanced neither of them).



5. Mordin. Comedy goldmine.



6. I took the Paragon resolution where I side with neither. As much as I'd like to kill Miranda for her stupidity for engaging the galaxy's most unstable biotic in UNARMED COMBAT by ridding myself of her loyalty, I'd have to break the role I'm playing to do it. She lives... For now.



7. She should probably pull her pants up. Her views on plumber's crack I simply cannot abide by.



8. They aren't already?



9. All signs point to "yes." Miranda turned her back on Cerberus. And there is a possibility of that deepening if my theory on the two being sisters holds up.



10. Dip him in brown gravy and lock him in a small room with a wolverine high on angel dust.



11. Rewrite. Talk about the ethics all you want, but they're still calculators with guns. I'd rather have them shooting *with* me than *at* me.



12. Funny question. The Shepard romancing Jack? Full Paragon. The ten other Sheps I plan on importing into ME3 have an 85/15 renegade split. Gotta play it like Predator. If you have a gun, you're going down.

[SpiderFan1217]

adriano_c wrote...

I wasn't asking you anything. I was asking JohnnyDollar.

  You didn't have to get all bold print about it. 

[OneDrunkMonk]

 1. What did you do with that dude in Jack's loyalty mission who wanted to do the experiments again?

-I think the nuke takes care of him either way.

2. What do you think about Jack's default outfit?

-Initially interesting to see her tats and story behind them but after her escape from Purgatory it doesn't make sense for her to go into battle half naked.

3. What is your preferred romance conclusion for Jack in ME3? Ambiguous? Conclusive? 

-Faithful to Liara presently though my second male Shep playthrough will have romanced Jack.

4. How do you think Jack would get along with Kaidan, Ashley, or Liara?

-Probably the same as how she reacts to everyone else. Side note I wonder if perhaps she might secretly admire Samara.

6. Assuming there is (hopefully) banter in ME3, who would you most like to see Jack bantering with?

-I'd like to know if post events of ME2 if she's grown as a person. Still a bad-@ss sure but perhaps easier to get along with as well? Again I'd like to see her bond with Samara as her mentor.

7. What did you do in the Jack v. Miranda fight and why? 

-Paragon

8. Is there anything you especially agree or disagree with Jack in terms of her views?

-A lot of her views stem from a harsh life born out of a harsher childhood. It's amazing she's even remotely sane at all. 

9. Do you think Jack and Grunt could be friends?

-Grunt needs to be taken down a notch. Fresh out of the tank and he's copping an attitude. Jack would fling him about a room like a ragdoll.

10. What do you foresee in terms of Jack and Miranda? Will they ever put aside their differences?

-Nah. But they'll tolerate each other.

11. What do you want to do with the Illusive Man?

-Make sure his lust for human dominance doesn't end up killing humanity.

12. Did you destroy or rewrite the Heretics?

-Reprogrammed in one play and destroyed in another.

13. Is your Shepard paragon or renegade? Or maybe Paragade, Neutral, or Renegon? Why?

Paragon but "Renegade' when the situation called for it. Really makes no sense to go around being humanity's biggest douche-bag. Don't think anyone would want to work with him if he was just a self-centered jerkwad. 

[Pacifien]

In regards to Jack's loyalty mission, I didn't do anything to Aresh. I did point out to Jack that the dude was crazy and unlikely to ever have the ability to restart the Teltin experiments again. She let him go.

In regards to Jack's original outfit, I'd have left off the belt straps. Chafing, you know. And not the good kind of chafing like Mordin goes on about. But anyway, it appeared to me that Jack's tattoos were meant to be her outfit, her statement and enigma to the world. Didn't much like her loyalty outfit either, as it seemed like the shirt was painted on kind of ad hoc and looked ****ty. Now, her clothes improve with the appearance pack, but the glasses nullify the improvement.

In regards to Jack and Miranda, I can't ever see them putting aside their differences willingly. I think time working on the same team might dull their hatred of each other to the point where Jack wouldn't bother going out of her way to ruin Miranda's day. During their fight, if I don't have the option to tell them to save it for the Collectors, I'll side with Jack. What Cerberus did was wrong, I wouldn't buy any claim that the Illusive Man regretted what had happened (and I noticed he never does make the claim), and calling someone a mistake is out of line. If Miranda wants to view my siding with Jack as some personal affront to her, that's her problem.

I love writing pages and pages about what I think about rewriting the Heretics, but none of it would have anything to do with Jack. Unless I somehow turned the discussion to operant conditioning.

[Pacifien]

adriano_c wrote...
"The most uncivil character has the most civil fanbase."

"I have a theory on why this is the case."

WHAT'S THE THEORY!!?

I have a theory.

[adriano_c]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I thought the original statement by SpiderFan, was more of a musing of happenstance.  I  don't think the uncivility of the character in itself, has much to do with it. 
I posted indirectly as to why this thread is civil, and others are not, but I don't think it has much to do with the civility aspect of the character in itself. 

I just did not state this in my original response to SpiderFan.  The incomplete response apparently mislead yourself and others, which was unintentional on my part.

What a let down!

It'd make for an interesting discussion, however!

Why has this particular character consistently attracted mostly like-minded individuals (thoughtful, insightful, capable of proper discourse...excluding myself)?

Regardless, it beats recycling "is or isn't she a lesbian?"

[adriano_c]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

adriano_c wrote...

I wasn't asking you anything. I was asking JohnnyDollar.

  You didn't have to get all bold print about it. 

It was so necessary.

[adriano_c]

Pacifien wrote...

I have a theory.

I won't be led on again.

[Bane Draconus]

Collider wrote...

Here are some questions for you all, for discussion.

1. What did you do with that dude in Jack's loyalty mission who wanted to do the experiments again?
2. What do you think about Jack's default outfit?
3. What is your preferred romance conclusion for Jack in ME3? Ambiguous? Conclusive?
4. How do you think Jack would get along with Kaidan, Ashley, or Liara?
6. Assuming there is (hopefully) banter in ME3, who would you most like to see Jack bantering with?
7. What did you do in the Jack v. Miranda fight and why?
8. Is there anything you especially agree or disagree with Jack in terms of her views?
9. Do you think Jack and Grunt could be friends?
10. What do you foresee in terms of Jack and Miranda? Will they ever put aside their differences?
11. What do you want to do with the Illusive Man?
12. Did you destroy or rewrite the Heretics?
13. Is your Shepard paragon or renegade? Or maybe Paragade, Neutral, or Renegon? Why?

1. Dead, shot to the head
2. Quite hot, I like the tats and the fact she wears heavy combat boots, nice change
3. If it's really well written, like, godly, then anything can be amiguous.  Otherwise, I want so closure.
4, Kaiden: told to f**k off and grow a set
    Ashley: might be more tolerable asking about her religion, with her cult background, but otherwise, told to f**k off
    Liara: told to f**k off
    All: unless Jeck hears of their Anti-Cerberus ways, she won't really associate
5. Where did 5 go?!?
6. Grunt, Zaeed, Samara, Garrus
7. Told them that they could kill each other after dealing with the collectors.
8; I actually share a lot of her views, so I relate quite well with her.
9. Yep, just a gut feeling really, that and their bloodlust for battle.
10. I don't think they'll ever go away, but Miranda may suck it up and give a heartfelt apology, Jack may accept if paragon romanced, if not, then things will still be tense, but not hostile.
11. Make him lead a charge and have him "accidently" in my sniper scope
12. Done both, hard to say which was more right
13. I did a full Renegade(except with full party), but I prefer a Renegon approach.  Pure on both sides is difficult, as is staying Neutral.  I like being bad, but not a a**hole

[SpiderFan1217]

Damn. When you ask a question you ask. Ok, times up. Let's do this...

 1. What did you do with that dude in Jack's loyalty mission who wanted to do the experiments again?

I let him live, but he got nuked.

2. What do you think about Jack's default outfit?

Clothes is clothes. Whatever she wears she makes it look gooood.

3. What is your preferred romance conclusion for Jack in ME3? Ambiguous? Conclusive? 

We travel the galaxy together slowey working through her issues while still kicking ass and taking names, Spectre style.

4. How do you think Jack would get along with Kaidan, Ashley, or Liara?

Badly. She would say they are all (Insert synonym for cats).

6. Assuming there is (hopefully) banter in ME3, who would you most like to see Jack bantering with?

I'd like to see her make fun of everyone. She will give props to anyone who displays sufficiant badassary.

7. What did you do in the Jack v. Miranda fight and why? 

Paragon. Cause I'm not a douche.

8. Is there anything you especially agree or disagree with Jack in terms of her views?

She kinda mean, but I dig the social darminism she displays.

9. Do you think Jack and Grunt could be friends?

Yes, I see them two giving eachother props on badassary displays. They would have a healthy rivalry.

10. What do you foresee in terms of Jack and Miranda? Will they ever put aside their differences?

No, and it will come to a boil

11. What do you want to do with the Illusive Man?

Shoot him in the leg. That guy is a tool.

12. Did you destroy or rewrite the Heretics?

Rewrite. I needs backup against the Reapers.

13. Is your Shepard paragon or renegade? Or maybe Paragade, Neutral, or Renegon? Why?

My maleShep is a Paragade, and my femShep is a Renegon. Yes, there is a difference.

*goes to soke hands in ice water*

[SpiderFan1217]

adriano_c wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

adriano_c wrote...

I wasn't asking you anything. I was asking JohnnyDollar.

  You didn't have to get all bold print about it. 

It was so necessary.

  How wude. 

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Jack actually kind of grew on me. I started to take her out on more missions and she actually seems pretty cool. Don't see why there is so much hate for her.

[Collider]

I don't see much hate for her at all blazen. On these forums. Granted there was that one distasteful thread, but those are few and far between.

[SpiderFan1217]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Jack actually kind of grew on me. I started to take her out on more missions and she actually seems pretty cool. Don't see why there is so much hate for her.

Join the Jack-side. You have no idea of the power. *Clinches fist.*

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Collider wrote...

I don't see much hate for her at all blazen. On these forums. Granted there was that one distasteful thread, but those are few and far between.

Well, i've seen some people over the months bashing jack. But she and thane had started to grow on me after striking a convo with them.

[adriano_c]

I was hoping it'd be something a little less hollow than "the character's complexity (and baggage) requires a certain maturity/mindset to appreciate", but what can you do? Maybe it's true, lol.

-edit. Samara, on the other hand, I can see this sort of reasoning working well for. Her comportment doesn't seem too likely to resonate with the juvenile hordes (of which, I think comprise the majority of the game's owners). Even the massive cleavage wasn't enough to supersede the more austere and naunced overall personality.

Modifié par adriano_c, 18 mai 2010 - 05:34 .

[Pacifien]

adriano_c wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
I have a theory.

I won't be led on again.

It's a really good theory.