20813 réponses à ce sujet

[adriano_c]

Makes him quite the sociopath, no? Lol...

edit. What with the turning Jack into an emotionally dependent, yet ruthless killer and all...

Modifié par adriano_c, 20 mai 2010 - 04:20 .

[Pacifien]

There comes a point when what you get out of the relationship is what you, the player, are willing to put into it. There are some romances that I actually find to be more on the casual side, but others will talk about elements I'm missing that hint toward something deeper. I'm seeing the same conversations, the same scenes as them, but I'm interpreting them in an entirely different way.



I find Jack's romance has the most emotional depth of all the possible romances. She's emotionally fragile, but the fact that Shepard would work past that speaks of his own needs for a special connection even though it's a fight. Think it works even better for Shepards that are emotionally scarred themselves, as there's something about Jack's own distrust and fears that mirror Shepard's.

[jlb524]

yorkj86 wrote...

I think it would be difficult for her to help Shepard with his problems, there's no doubt about that, but they would be a great help to each other by just being there, the comfort that comes with close physical proximity to a person one cares about.  It won't be easy, but it will be worthwhile and rewarding.

Maybe I need to think about the romance differently.  As it stands, it's very Jack focused, emotionally speaking.

I was just wondering if you all play the perfect 'white knight' Paragon/War Hero/Spacer types when you do the romance?  It seems most fitting for this type of Shepard. 

[jlb524]

adriano_c wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

It seems, given the romance, it pigeon-holes you into playing the 'white knight on a horse' type that swoops in and saves the damsel.

Well, if you turn down the renegade "casual sex" option, you can then proceed with all other renegade dialogue choices and actions (including killing Aresh), and still reach the end of the "paragon romance" storyline...

I don't mind the Paragon options.   Was just wondering if I could possibly role play it with a Shepard who, though is troubled and has emothional needs of their own, is a good person at heart.  From what I've seen, it just seems a bit one-sided.

I don't have a problem with those that role-play it as the 'white knight', if that's what they want, but was just wondering how plausible it was to do it with an emotionally 'messed up' Shepard.

[Pacifien]

The renegade options during Jack's romance probably lessen any "white knight" aspect to the whole thing.

[jlb524]

Pacifien wrote...

The renegade options during Jack's romance probably lessen any "white knight" aspect to the whole thing.

Hmmm...maybe I'll give those a try then.

[Collider]

Jacob's romance does have him ask Shepard how she's feeling and gives her a moment to vent.

[axl99]

Yep. Renegade approach just puts her in her place by giving her the same kind of reaction she's shown Shepard for the past while. He becomes her foil, the person who worked through his problems instead of dwelling on them.

[adriano_c]

yorkj86 wrote...

It's only seems like it's Jack-focused because Shepard is an emotionless vessel.  That could be bad writing, or an invitation by the writers for the player to put his or her own ideals in to Shepard's head, and then act them out outside of the events we are shown in-game.

Shepard's a blank slate pretty much (aside from the rather meaningless 'origins') because this is an RPG no?

[axl99]

Shepard's responses to Jack warning him that a relationship might not even work out between them leave me wanting a little more.



Paragon: So it'll suck, but how much fun is it going to be on the way?



Neutral: You're the one who doesn't get it. I don't give up. Ever.



Renegade: I dunno. Small ship.

[Pacifien]

yorkj86 wrote...
One genre of RPG doesn't go that route, and I wonder if games therein can even be considered RPGs, but that's not the discussion to have here.

There's is considerable roleplay value in the proper execution of a Phoenix Down.

[Epantiras]

jlb524 wrote...

I have a question for you all.

What
type of Shepard do you use to romance Jack? It seems, given the
romance, it pigeon-holes you into playing the 'white knight on a horse'
type that swoops in and saves the damsel. I don't like this, and prefer
to play a Shepard that is flawed and emotionally scarred (similar to
Jack, but not as bad). I was wondering if it's possible to romance Jack
with this type of Shepard, a 'Byronic Hero' type, as opposed to a
'white knight' type?

For my second ME2 playthrough I
decided to create a Ruthless/Earthborn MaleShep and basically do the
opposite of what my Canon Colonist/Sole Survivor FemShep did - i.e.
saving the stupid guy who wanted to become a mercenary on Omega, saving
Sidonis, letting Jacob's father suicide and so on, with few exceptions.
He turned out to be a total renegade doucebag. On a side note, playing
as a male character is quite hard, especially after doing Thane's
loyalty mission and falling in love with him - again - and doing the
opposide of what my FemShep did makes it even harder.
However, since I
had enough renegade points I managed to get Jack to kill Aresh, I love
it when she says "will this make my mind straight again" or something
like that, and him replying "there's nothing a bullet in the head can't
solve".

I must agree with those who say that MaleShep seems to be
"manipulating" Jack - or, rather, trying to bang his head against her
walls until they fall down. I felt bad to keep bothering her, but I'm
afraid there's no other way to bring those walls down. I chose a mix of
neutral and paragon answers I believe, afraid that the renegade ones
could break the romance. I remember I chose the "Yes but it will be fun" one. Cheesy, but I didn't like the other options.

[LiquidGrape]

The neutral options are consistently the best for Jack, in my opinion. Not ostentatiously imposing; neither are they manipulative.

[Jackal904]

Pacifien wrote...

The renegade options during Jack's romance probably lessen any "white knight" aspect to the whole thing.

I prefer a lot of the neutral options. They don't make you look like a jerk, and they make you look like less like the "white knight", or as Jack would put it, a ****.

Collider wrote...

Jacob's romance does have him ask
Shepard how she's feeling and gives her a moment to vent.

Yeah that is the only good part of Jacob's romance. He is the only squadmate that asks you how you feel.

Modifié par Jackal904, 20 mai 2010 - 12:51 .

[Jackal904]

^ Like what? I can't think of any and I'm curious as to what lines people find manipulative in Jack's romance.

[Mondo47]

I think that an element of this debate as to whether Shep's pursuit of Jack can be considered manipulative comes down to one of the most well-realized aspects of the character; the fact the audience can really feel how vulnerable and fragile this hard-edged, angry woman really is. As an audience we can see she needs something to transform her existance; it's that or she continues to circle the drain until one day she finally manages to get herself killed. Now based on the majority of responses we've cycled out in here, that transformative force need not be the influence of a lover; some people want to mother Jack, others want to be her friend, others still just want to shake her a few times in the hope they can jar something loose, but I think I can say we're all singing from the same prayerbook when I say no-one thought sex could be the required prescription for what ails Jack.

Ok, it's not just sex, but an intimate relationship like what we build between Shep and Jack nearly always has a physical aspect. We all know that as our Sheps get closer to Jack, chances are, unless we spurn her, this situation is destined to get horizontal. We get no sister\\mother\\brother\\father\\BFF relationship because of the game dynamic and (arguably) over-streamlining of the dynamics of relationships in the game; with everyone it's sex or nothin'. So we see Jack, this mournful-eyed monster made up of a stew of anger, wounds and misery, and instead of giving her the kind of help we'd give someone like that in reality, we, well to put an indelicate point on it, we give her the masculine cure-all injection (I know, we don't all interpret the scene at the end as sex, but go with me for now you argumentative swines ). Bam. Nothin' like a Man to fix you up, Jack. Ugh... it's revolting to even think about it that way, but we do; a little or a lot.

And I think that's why the relationship is sometimes read as manipulative; as humans we all see our perfect way to help Jack, the game won't let us just get her to open up over a few drinks and then give her a little cuddle when she starts to let her emotions get the better of her and then assure her we won't turn our backs on her. Instead we get what we get, and for some of us, it's a little bit clumsy in comparison to what we'd really do... and sadly, it's something we can misinterpret as "I'll say this so I can get in her underwear." I'm not saying a romantic relationship isn't appropriate, because I can imagine that it could be to some people (and I guess if I'm honest it is to me to a degree at least), but we're all familiar with the way some sleazeballs exploit vulnerability in others. Sometimes Meer's delivery of lines just makes it worse. Hell, if you really want to read into it you could say the same thing about the relationships with Tali, Liara, Thane and even Jacob (if you gauge your responses in his conversations, you can't help but read Shep's pursuit of him as being anything but romantic - she just wants to get her ashes hauled). Saying X results in climbing in the Y-shaped box. Liara is naive, Tali is crushin' on ya, so's Jacob, and Thane is as vulnerable as Jack to the right words said the right way... every relationship that culminates in sex can be read very easily as exploitation of another character's vulnerabilites, feelings and experiences.

In the end we're tarring poor ol' Shep with the douchebag brush I think at least because we want to help Jack on our own terms. Not the ones the game inflexibly gives us.