20813 réponses à ce sujet

[MHRazer]

axl99 wrote...

Shepard's responses to Jack warning him that a relationship might not even work out between them leave me wanting a little more.

Paragon: So it'll suck, but how much fun is it going to be on the way?

Neutral: You're the one who doesn't get it. I don't give up. Ever.

Renegade: I dunno. Small ship.

I agree. None of those responses really capture what I think Shepard should say in that moment.

I try to read the paragon option as Shepard just giving Jack a little room for comfort in agreeing with her that it will suck, although he doesn't really feel that way. The neutral option is really creepy. It should probably be the renegade option. The renegade option is pretty funny, but devalues the whole thing.

Edit: Awesome post Mondo, I agree with the whole thing. Though I'm less pessimistic that a romance is what she needs; I think it's great for her.

Modifié par MHRazer, 20 mai 2010 - 04:13 .

[Mondo47]

MHRazer wrote...
The neutral option is really creepy. It should probably be the renegade option.

Yeah, it reads a little off-colour. It could have been fixed with the tiniest of tweaks -

"No, you're the one that doesn't get it. I've never been one for giving up on something just because it might be dangerous."

Same message, sounds much better to my ears at least

Modifié par Mondo47, 20 mai 2010 - 05:39 .

[Gethforceone]

Mondo47 wrote...

MHRazer wrote...
The neutral option is really creepy. It should probably be the renegade option.

Yeah, it reads a little off-colour. It could have been fixed with the tiniest of tweaks -

"No, you're the one that doesn't get it. I've never been one for giving up on something just because it might be dangerous."

Same message, sounds much better to my ears at least

^this.

[MHRazer]

Mondo47 wrote...

MHRazer wrote...
The neutral option is really creepy. It should probably be the renegade option.

Yeah, it reads a little off-colour. It could have been fixed with the tiniest of tweaks -

"No, you're the one that doesn't get it. I've never been one for giving up on something just because it might be dangerous."

Same message, sounds much better to my ears at least

That's probably what they were going for. The way it's written though, it sounds far more... threatening.

[Gethforceone]

I could kind of see Jack subconsciously using Shep to pick fights with Miranda knowing Shep would almost always take her side.

[Mondo47]

yorkj86 wrote...

Curse you, Mondo!    I can't get the song from the Youtube video you linked out of my head!

I downloaded it on iTunes - I'm actually listening to the damn thing in a loop while I work

It's called "Yippiyo-ay" and it's by The Presets. If you like electronic music and resurrected synth-pop with a dash of hiphop a'la Daft Punk, Justice, Air, FischerSpooner, etc. I'd check them out.

[Vigilseeker]

I'm not gonna read 277 pages or get involved in any past arguments/discussion here. I just had to say... Jack is my favorite character most intriguing and out of all the LI's the only one I was actually attracted to. I like her quasi-akira themed biotic childhood story.

[Jackal904]

Mondo47 wrote...

every relationship that culminates in sex can be read very easily as exploitation of another character's vulnerabilites, feelings and experiences.

Exactly. But people single out Jack's romance, saying that Shepard is (most) manipulative when trying to romance her. I dont think it's a matter of Shepard trying to manipulate or exploit Jack, it's just that Jack is more emotionally vulnerable than the rest. And just because you're trying to form a romantic relationship with someone that is emotional vulnerable, it doesn't mean you're trying to take advantage of them. And like I said before, if you wanted to exploit Jack, she blatantly gives you the opportunity early on. So if you decline it and instead try to paragon romance her, that automatically shows that you are not trying to take advantage of her.

[Bane Draconus]

Jackal904 wrote...

Mondo47 wrote...

every relationship that culminates in sex can be read very easily as exploitation of another character's vulnerabilites, feelings and experiences.

Exactly. But people single out Jack's romance, saying that Shepard is (most) manipulative when trying to romance her. I dont think it's a matter of Shepard trying to manipulate or exploit Jack, it's just that Jack is more emotionally vulnerable than the rest. And just because you're trying to form a romantic relationship with someone that is emotional vulnerable, it doesn't mean you're trying to take advantage of them. And like I said before, if you wanted to exploit Jack, she blatantly gives you the opportunity early on. So if you decline it and instead try to paragon romance her, that automatically shows that you are not trying to take advantage of her.

Very true, and really, to further tar Shepard (which I feel sort of bad about, but I'm over it), the lines he uses when you are romancing any character can be viewed as manipulative in some way.  From Tali's crush to Miranda's lack of self confidence to Jack's emotional scars, your preset lines pick away at these things, regardless if it's the paragon, neutral, or renegade approach.  These are duplicated for the femsheps with Garrus' lack of confidence with things going wrong and Thane's coming death being similar to Miranda and Jack.  Can't speak about Jacob's romance, he's the only character I can't stand using on the team and avoid having anything to do with him.

That's why I just use the lines for a base and add my own subtext to the conversations, sort of a fanfic in my head as I'm playing the game.  Should be working on my fic more, but the cursed block has landed on my keyboard again.

[Collider]

Jacob acts like femShep is sexually harassing him, IIRC. Basically any of the romances in either game can be interpreted as "taking advantage," if someone tries hard enough.

Modifié par Collider, 20 mai 2010 - 09:15 .

[Jackal904]

Here's a very recent and brief interview with Casey Hudson that someone posted on this forum. He talks about player feedback and the scanning minigame a bit. But if you're a Jackolyte, it will make you happy, and if you're not a fan of Miranda, it will make you laugh. So right now I am like :lol:.

[Collider]

Jackal904 wrote...

Here's a very recent and brief interview with Casey Hudson that someone posted on this forum. He talks about player feedback and the scanning minigame a bit. But if you're a Jackolyte, it will make you happy, and if you're not a fan of Miranda, it will make you laugh. So right now I am like :lol:.

That reminds me of one developer who said his favorite new character was Jack. May have Casey, actually. Either way I agree that Jack is a very unique character and there is stuff to be found beneath the surface. I wonder how Miranda fans are going to respond to the notion that Miranda is simpler though. Uh oh.

Modifié par Collider, 20 mai 2010 - 09:53 .

[Jackal904]

Haha yeah. That made my day when he said Miranda is simpler.

But it was probably Casey who said his favorite new character is Jack. He has said it many times . Also the lead concept artist, I believe his name is Matt Rhodes, said his favorite character is Jack.

[Collider]

Jackal904 wrote...

Haha yeah. That made my day when he said Miranda is simpler.

But it was probably Casey who said his favorite new character is Jack. He has said it many times . Also the lead concept artist, I believe his name is Matt Rhodes, said his favorite character is Jack.

That's the dude who was in the concept art video right?

[Collider]

yorkj86 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Haha yeah. That made my day when he said Miranda is simpler.

But it was probably Casey who said his favorite new character is Jack. He has said it many times . Also the lead concept artist, I believe his name is Matt Rhodes, said his favorite character is Jack.

That's the dude who was in the concept art video right?

And the dude who created the picture for the  Jack lithograph.

What a cool dude.

[Mondo47]

Collider wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Here's a very recent and brief interview with Casey Hudson that someone posted on this forum. He talks about player feedback and the scanning minigame a bit. But if you're a Jackolyte, it will make you happy, and if you're not a fan of Miranda, it will make you laugh. So right now I am like :lol:.

That reminds me of one developer who said his favorite new character was Jack. May have Casey, actually. Either way I agree that Jack is a very unique character and there is stuff to be found beneath the surface. I wonder how Miranda fans are going to respond to the notion that Miranda is simpler though. Uh oh.

Oh, come on, in all fairness to anyone that considers themselves a fan of Miri, she is simpler! There's no sense of effort; talking about her seeming lack of a sense of self-worth, of only being a cog in a machine, isn't rocket science; it isn't theraputic, it's simple observation. Next thing you know she's pawing at you and quickly throwing Shep the chumline of "We can't let personal feelings get in the way of the mission." Red rag. Bull. If you want her, she's made it plain she's open to the idea of getting bitten.

Jack on the other hand, she keeps on pushing Shep away, be it with varying reasonings behind each shove out the door. Only right at the end do you get any inkling Shep might have made an impression, and even then, will she open herself up in the end? I mean, despite the way the game always throws the bedroom antics at us before the ride into "certain death" I wasn't entirely sure Jack was going to come up to see Shep in that sense. Think how many of us Jackolytes aren't willing to accept the scene as a sex scene at all... that's complexity, Miri - watch and learn while you put your catsuit back on