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[Urdaniel]

axl99 wrote...

No that part I do get Urd, I'm simply suggesting the physical aspect of having her teeth chattering for instance might be off, even if it's just Shepard perceiving it.

Speaking of Shepard, most of this story seems to be written from his point of view. Maybe you could try writing it from Jack's perspective as well if you want to give it a stab.

Ah, point taken.  I might have done it better had Shep noted it as slightly odd.  Something to keep in mind.

Actually, it's written completely from his point of view.  Any viewpoint shifts are inadvertent and due to my own rustiness with prose.  I think I've mentioned before (or maybe not, I don't remember off-hand) that, as insecure as I feel about writing Jack from another person's viewpoint, I am even MORE insecure about going inside her head and writing her directly.  I'm probably going to leave that sort of thing to Pacifien, who's doing some stellar short pieces about Jack's early days, and Mondo, who is apparently very busy these days, unfortunately.

[Jackal904]

Yeah I'm content with the story being written from Shepard's point of view. It's been great that way so far, there's no need to change it. Plus it would be odd if there was a sudden change in point of view.

[SpiderFan1217]

Jackal904 wrote...

Yeah I'm content with the story being written from Shepard's point of view. It's been great that way so far, there's no need to change it. Plus it would be odd if there was a sudden change in point of view.

Sometimes that works. But I haven't read the story, so you are probably right.

[Mondo47]

Oh yes, busy busy busy, but not so busy as I couldn't spend a little while catching up on your story, Urd

Enjoying it a lot so far... nicely walking that line between hot and cold, and also exploring an undoubtedly complicated relationship in its early days. Your dialogue, which worried you so much, is picking up pace too - you're obviously getting a handle on how your characters talk and interact. Keep this up and you'll have a winning piece on your hands, Urd. Pat yesel' on ye back.

Oh, and I creased up when I read the line about wheelchairs and cushions

[LiquidGrape]

When did we pass 300 pages?
Not bad...

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 27 mai 2010 - 05:55 .

[Urdaniel]

Mondo47 wrote...

Oh yes, busy busy busy, but not so busy as I couldn't spend a little while catching up on your story, Urd

Enjoying it a lot so far... nicely walking that line between hot and cold, and also exploring an undoubtedly complicated relationship in its early days. Your dialogue, which worried you so much, is picking up pace too - you're obviously getting a handle on how your characters talk and interact. Keep this up and you'll have a winning piece on your hands, Urd. Pat yesel' on ye back.

Oh, and I creased up when I read the line about wheelchairs and cushions

Thank you most kindly.  Means a lot to me when the folks in this thread think I'm doing right by Jack, given all the dissecting and discussion going on around here from people who can see deeper than I can (I'm shallow and easily-amused, to be honest).  As for keeping it up, hoo boy, no pressure, eh?    I was so worried Day 4 would be a letdown, it gave me so much trouble and second-guessing.  Heck, I'm constantly afraid of backsliding, hence the extremely anal-retentive process I go through before anything sees the light of day.

And yes, I've said it before and I'll say it again:  a lot of my ideas came (and will come) from this thread.  If I've reached as high as people say I have, it's because I'm standing on those people's shoulders (or maybe even a wheelchair with a cushion on the seat). 

[LiquidGrape]

Okay, let's try this again. I know it isn't much of a likeness, but I can't really be bothered with doing more.

[Errationatus]

adriano_c wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Between Grunt, Miranda and Shepard(?), I'm tired of the character-as-a-science-project archetype.

Sure, but there's no doubting that if Jack were to fall into this category, it'd certainly be the most poignant story of them all.

Ah, clarification.  If you do it right the first time, you don't need it, but here we are. 

When I said "grown for", what I had been actually thinking was that Jack herself was not specifically wanted, as it were.  She was just the one who survived.  They ended up with her, but they weren't specifically trying for her.  She may have simply been one of a batch, or the settled-for prototype for many more to follow.

The entire idea of kidnapping kids is just a device to make Cerberus seem even more brutal and callous, anyway, and probably meant for you to question your ethics all the way through the game.  You are, after all working with an organization that has virturally no conscience, regardless of their stated intent.

It's stupid to think that kidnapping is both easier and cheaper than simply cloning batches of children for the project.  Cerberus doesn't strike me as being that sloppy, and it would certainly draw far less attention.  If they are that sloppy, it's a wonder they exist at all.

Personally, the idea of Cerberus, Mengele-like experimenting on children is unsettling enough, but for the broader implications - would you willingly have worked with Nahtzees, accepted their money, supplies and help, and then take on their twisted brutalized supersoldier as a squadmate while you did it, all because the Russians were kidnapping farmers from Iowa, and Mormons from Utah? 

What does that say about Shepard? For Shepard it was pure necessity, and something he'll have to live with, but The Illusive Man?  That sum**** needs a hole in the head, regardless. 

Oh, one other thing has been swirling about my head:

I don't think Jack is as free of Cerberus as she might think.  The way Teltin was 'closed down' (and TIM's reaction to it in the mission summary after), Purgatory and what happened leading up to it are a little too suspicious for me. 

Doesn't add up, somehow.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 27 mai 2010 - 07:46 .

[SpiderFan1217]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

It's funny how he thinks he has a choice in the matter.

[Jackal904]

^ Haha nice JD.

Modifié par Jackal904, 27 mai 2010 - 08:59 .

[axl99]

Speculating is awesome.

Going on what Jake mentioned, I think it could be possible that the project that created Jack [figuratiavely speaking] had an actual purpose other than wasting research funds for sick kicks. Suppose there was a project head of a sizable group of specialists who came up with the theory in creating stronger biotic users by removing or reducing the delibitating side effects of insanity, physical pain, etc.  In fiddling around with their research like mixing ingredients in a pot of gumbo, they got Jack.

Say the scientists were so baffled over Jack's unprecedented biotic
potential that they tried duplicating and failing to reproduce results
in other children. When TIM came over to check on things , they panicked
and tried to speed things up using any means possible and eventually the situation degraded into a similar scenario to what happened to Miranda where Wilson tried to sabotage the Lazarus project.

[adriano_c]

JakeMacDon wrote...

Cerberus doesn't strike me as being that sloppy...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/2611612/1

Some reading that might interest you.

Modifié par adriano_c, 27 mai 2010 - 09:39 .

[axl99]

So far I guess it's just the military faction of Cerberus that was epic fail... If we were to go with Miranda's truce talk with Shepard. But after reading that topic, I can't help but feel like Cerberus had a bad case of spreading themselves around way too thin to the point TIM's ADD-ish multitasking capabilities couldn't keep up.

Modifié par axl99, 27 mai 2010 - 09:57 .

[Jackal904]

axl99 wrote...

Suppose there was a project head of a sizable group of specialists who came up with the theory in creating stronger biotic users by removing or reducing the delibitating side effects of insanity, physical pain, etc.

Hmmm. The whole neural degeneration thing increasing Jack's biotics might have something to do with this. Maybe they found a way to increase biotic power by causing types of neural damage and brain trauma. So maybe they tortured her with the intent to mentally traumatize her, because somehow the intense trauma leads to a significant increase in biotic power.

Modifié par Jackal904, 27 mai 2010 - 10:09 .

[Urdaniel]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
I liked it Urdaniel.  You show Jack's vulnerable side.  Of course we did see a little of this side in the game with the paragon romance, but it was just tears.  We also got to see a completely different side in the renegade scene.  A difference between caring for someone that can bring out deep emotions in one's self to the surface, versus casual sex at the spur of the moment with very little emotion other than lust.  That pretty much is your day 4 there, albeit further in depth of course.  I really can't think of anything to add other than just my observation of it.  I will say this though....if it was my Shepard, that water temp would have been hot, not cold.

Thanks for reading and I'm glad you liked it.  I will say one thing about your last sentence (and paraphrasing Spider in the process): It's not like my Shep had a choice in the matter.  

[MHRazer]

axl99 wrote...

Speculating is awesome.

Going on what Jake mentioned, I think it could be possible that the project that created Jack [figuratiavely speaking] had an actual purpose other than wasting research funds for sick kicks. Suppose there was a project head of a sizable group of specialists who came up with the theory in creating stronger biotic users by removing or reducing the delibitating side effects of insanity, physical pain, etc.  In fiddling around with their research like mixing ingredients in a pot of gumbo, they got Jack.

Say the scientists were so baffled over Jack's unprecedented biotic
potential that they tried duplicating and failing to reproduce results
in other children. When TIM came over to check on things , they panicked
and tried to speed things up using any means possible and eventually the situation degraded into a similar scenario to what happened to Miranda where Wilson tried to sabotage the Lazarus project.

I hadn't thought of that, really. I always just took it as "make the strongest biotic evar" but trying to actually achieve something that would benefit all biotics... an interesting thought. Makes a lot more sense too, I never really understood why they would put so much effort (and so many human lives) into making one super powerful chick.

Also, the thread seems to have slowed down considerably since the mods moved it. I wonder if people lost track of where we are.

Modifié par MHRazer, 28 mai 2010 - 02:16 .

[axl99]

Maybe.. It's usually easier to access the thread through our own user accounts by looking at our recent activities. Well it's easier for me anyway.

No way to fave a thread other than to bookmark?

Modifié par axl99, 28 mai 2010 - 02:38 .

[axl99]

I guess when people have been accessing this thread for 4 months they tend to get used to clicking on the ME2 spoiler forum link.



Now that we're in this character build sub forum thing, I might as well bring this up:

How did you guys build Jack's skillset?

[Pacifien]

MHRazer wrote...
I hadn't thought of that, really. I always just took it as "make the strongest biotic evar" but trying to actually achieve something that would benefit all biotics... an interesting thought. Makes a lot more sense too, I never really understood why they would put so much effort (and so many human lives) into making one super powerful chick.

It's a sloppy way to go about science if you throw all your eggs into one basket and then discover the results aren't repeatable. They get one super biotic in Jack and then all that research poured into her turns out to be deadly if you try to repeat it with another person. Then again, Cerberus has a shoddy reputation on the scientific method, I think.

I do like the idea that Jack was a unique accident, but if they discovered that while in the process of their original research, I can't imagine why her first memory would be her cell, already in isolation from the other kids. Would have thought she'd started with the group and then was segregated once they knew she was different. Unless we return to the idea of whether or not she's suppressing memories or Cerberus wiped her memories.

Another alternative is that someone realized Jack was unique for a biotic before she was ever brought to the facility. Then it's either the facility was custom designed to work on her or it was repurposed to work on her. I can imagine the anger of the children if the experiments started out somewhat benign only to turn brutal once the research switched gears to focus on Jack.

ETA: As far as the support thread move, as someone who supported a subforum and got this instead, I decided that was the best I was ever going to get. So I'll change my posting style rather than take some mad prophet stance on the matter, which I realized is what I'd been doing.

Modifié par Pacifien, 28 mai 2010 - 02:57 .

[Pacifien]

axl99 wrote...
Now that we're in this character build sub forum thing, I might as well bring this up:
How did you guys build Jack's skillset?

Since I play on the console, I had to use the X+A button trick to get rid of the automatic point in Jack's bonus power. Then I maxed out shockwave (improved), pull (field), and passive (adept). I haven't been able to play the game since they patched squad ammo. Probably only put points into shockwave just to open up pull then put the rest into warp ammo.

I know warp ammo is great, but playing vanguard and infiltrator, I got used to squad cryo ammo, so hated how any squadmate with an ammo power kept overriding me. So I started taking away all their ammo toys.

I hate to say this, but Jack is one of the least used squadmates for me when I'm playing Hardcore or Insanity. It's her shotgun. She doesn't have defense boosting powers like Grunt's fortification or Jacob's barrier, and she doesn't have Tali's distraction power with the combat drone. So if I needed pull, I went with either Jacob or Samara. For Veteran or below, she was a favorite for any husk or platform mission because shockwave had immediate effect.

[Urdaniel]

axl99 wrote...
Now that we're in this character build sub forum thing, I might as well bring this up:
How did you guys build Jack's skillset?

Playing on the PC makes Jack a whole lot more usable for me.  I basically swapped out her pistol for an assault rifle so she has more utility even on Hardcore or Insanity (although the 'no biotics vs. defended targets' is still rather crippling).  Did the same thing Pacifien does, which is basically to strip the Warp Ammo in favor of my Vanguard's Squad Cryo or my Soldier's AP, then max out the other three skills.  And yes, I edit the game to give Jack the same number of points as Jacob and Miranda (their having 31 points just never seemed fair to me) - having played ME2 all the way through 7x, I'm hardly ruining my experience, imo.

For a 'canon' skillset, I went with 4 levels of Primal Adept, 3 levels of Pull, 4 for Heavy Shockwave, and 2 in Warp Ammo.  Would prefer Throw instead of Pull, but oh well.  If I had Throw, I'd go for 4 Throw Field and 3 Shockwave, but that's all wishful thinking.

EDIT: In my last couple of playthroughs, I went with Jack all the time.  Grabbed Zaeed and Kasumi first, ran to Purgatory and busted her out.  After that, I swapped out the second squad member as needed (primarily for loyalty missions) but kept Jack in the lineup for every mission.  Since I play on Insanity exclusively these days, it makes some fights really difficult.  But after playing the game so many times, I could use a challenge.

Modifié par Urdaniel, 28 mai 2010 - 03:42 .