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[Epantiras]

JakeMacDon wrote...
why didn't make a male version of Jack for the FemSheps?

Male Jack=

+


Still, I don't think it would be the same. One of the best parts of Jack's story is that she's been used/abused and yet she's stronger than ever. In videogames, you see such strenght in males, not females.

Modifié par Epantiras, 05 juin 2010 - 06:53 .

[Epantiras]

Thinking about a male Jack...







Thane + Jack = most awesome character or the crappiest one?



"F*ck Siha... you're not supposed to agree so fast"

[Jackal904]

^ Lmao nice .

[Pacifien]

I'm having a very Jack moment right now, only instead of my rage fueling a stronger and better command of my biotic potential, it's making it worse. I refuse to lower the difficulty level just so I can do one bloody adept playthrough. I will make it past at least Mordin's recruitment! Then I will kill everyone in Omega! EVERYONE!

[Jackal904]

About a male version of Jack. It would just be plain silly to have an male and female "version" of each squadmate. They just need equally interesting squadmates of both sexes. Unfortunately the male LI's aren't that great. For me, Thane would be the easy choice if he just didn't look like a freaking lizard/frog-thing.

[Pacifien]

Heh. Thane was specifically designed to be appealing to female gamers, but one of the most common complaints I see about him is that people can't get past that he looks like a fish/lizard/frog thing. Or that his voice makes them want to take a throat lozenge. Maybe third on the list is that the option to initiate his romance is picking "I want you" on Shepard's dialogue wheel right after he tells you about his dead wife.

I like Thane and I actually like his character design and voice. But I'm not the biggest fan of some of the dialogue in his romance, mostly comments made by Shepard. In fact, it seems it's female Shepard who ultimately fails for me in the romances, not the men.

[Errationatus]

Pacifien wrote...

Well, fans of other romances would probably debate that their romance is lacking in comparison to Jack's. When it comes to the romances, I always whip out the ol' "you get out of the relationship what you, the player, are willing to put into it." I wouldn't be able to comprehend it, but I'm sure there are those out there who feel Jack's romance is poorly developed in comparison to their own preferences.

No doubt.  She was, naturally, coloured by my particular preference when she asked the question. 

Anyway, is your wife saying that if you play a female Shepard, instead of a female Jack you get a male Jack instead? 'Cause I'm not sure Jack's personality and experiences translate into people's expectations of a male.

That's what she was saying, yes.  Personally, I see no reason, if handled well, there couldn't be an equally compelling male version of Jack.  Or a male counterpart as good.

Now if she's wondering why there isn't a counterpart, then you'd have to analyze what gives Jack's romance weight and how you can apply that to another romance without directly copying Jack's story. If you view Jack's story as one that starts in a dark place only for her to discover the light in the end, then you do have a parallel romance in Thane.

She thought that Jack's character had been the best developed, (she'd also sat through a long spate of YouTube encapsulations of the various romances), and her opinion was that Female Shepard's pretty much got screwed with the romance angle.  When she said "a male version of Jack", she said it could have been taken either way - a male Jack just like Jack, or a "male Jack" as in a male character as good.

However, a lot of people find Thane's memories of his wife are a bit off-putting. And you can certainly fall into a romance with Thane easier than you could Jack.

My wife thought him "cerebral and interesting, but a serious downer."  She thought Jacob's romance was meant for comedic effect, and thought Garrus "charming".   She thought the only other romance "worthy" of Shepard (male or female) was Samara - had we been allowed to pursue it. 

[Errationatus]

Epantiras wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...
why didn't make a male version of Jack for the FemSheps?

Male Jack= *SNIP*

Still, I don't think it would be the same. One of the best parts of Jack's story is that she's been used/abused and yet she's stronger than ever. In videogames, you see such strenght in males, not females.

This is the 21st Century.    Handled well, a male Jack, with the same storyline and circumstances, is perfectly possible.   Granted, they're probably done more often than the female versions, but they can be as interesting, in the right hands.

[Errationatus]

yorkj86 wrote...

There is no male Jack because Jack is female.  The writers would really be playing in to the critics of the ME series who claim that the game is just a glorified dating sim, if certain characters switched sex depending upon the sex of Shepard.  Some characters are male, some characters are female.  Maybe I'm just being grumpy and way too serious, but I'm sensing some arrogant self-entitlement when people say these things.

For my part (and my wife's), it was simple curiosity.

[Errationatus]

yorkj86 wrote...

This doesn't mean that the writers should focus only on love-interests for one sex of Shepard, though. They should be excellent for both Sheploo and FemShep.

Exactly.  Which is what my wife was getting at, as it were.   ManShep got it easy this go, FemShep got the shaft - so to speak.

[Errationatus]

Jackal904 wrote...

About a male version of Jack. It would just be plain silly to have an male and female "version" of each squadmate.

My wife didn't mean each squadmate - only Jack, she thought, would have been cool with a male counterpart for FemShep.

They just need equally interesting squadmates of both sexes. Unfortunately the male LI's aren't that great. For me, Thane would be the easy choice if he just didn't look like a freaking lizard/frog-thing.

I agreed with the wife - Thane is just one helluva downer.  Spiritual, sure.  Sensitive, absolutely.  But a serious wet blankie.

[Pacifien]

JakeMacDon wrote...
*snip*
My wife thought him "cerebral and interesting, but a serious downer."  She thought Jacob's romance was meant for comedic effect, and thought Garrus "charming".   She thought the only other romance "worthy" of Shepard (male or female) was Samara - had we been allowed to pursue it. 

Oh, I like to think that the Samara romance is still in the pursuit stage, she just doesn't think it is. Shepard will wear down her resolve eventually.

Funny that she took Jacob's romance as comedic effect while Garrus was charming, because I get the impression the writers were going for the opposite effect. Garrus is bumbling over his words, bringing the wine, the cheesy music -- completely not sure of how this whole romance thing is supposed to be done. Jacob, on the other hand, is asking about Shepard's feelings and telling her he loves her. Just who ever wrote it and whoever voice directed it did it completely wrong. It's comedic by accident.

Some people mention the possibility of Jack's romance being just as much a downer as Thane's, if you read into the upgrade information of her biotic implant with the mention of her neural degeneration. However, it somewhat implies that neural degeneration might be a problem for all biotics and doesn't mention that Jack's is particuarly accelerated in any way. And it's not even mentioned within the game dialogue, so it's really a nonissue considering how often the game dialogue and codex entries contradict each other.

I'm not as familiar with the development of Miranda's romance, but from what I see of all the other romances, what makes Jack's unique is that you will see a side of her that cannot be seen in any other way. In Tali's romance, you know she's cute and adorable and has always looked up to Shepard. In Garrus's romance, you know he's had a rough time of it and could do with having something positive happen for once. In Thane's romance, you know he'd been resigned to death until he met Shepard. In Jacob's romance, you, uh.... hmm. But with Jack's romance, you see someone who never thought she'd care finally learn to care and show she cares. This is a completely different side of Jack that can only be seen with a romance.