20813 réponses à ce sujet

[Epantiras]

Jackal904 wrote...

If she is loyal I think it would definitely fit her character that she would stay. Shepard has still done a lot for her even if he didn't romance her. And she's got a pretty good thing going with following Shepard. She's around people that won't abuse her and take advantage of her, a leader who cares about her (romantically or not), and a safe place to sleep. And if you get those food provisions, the meals are pretty good too^_^.

But if Jack is not loyal to you at the end of ME2, I do not think she will return in your ME3 playthrough.

Fighting against the Reapers gives her a purpose and she's been looking for one for her whole life, just think about the whole cult thing. She could have simply gone away after destroying the Teltin facility, yet she stayed (mostly for gameplay reasons :innocent: ).

I'm somehow worried about some ME3 ending speculations I've read these days... Shepard will have to choose between saving him/herself or saving the crew: what would you do? Being a Thanemancer, I guess I'm quite ready to see my canon Femshep die together with her terminal boyfriend; and I'm also ready to sacrifice my MaleShep, hey I've created him just to romance Jack, he has no other purpose :-P

[LiquidGrape]

[Removed due to idiocy]

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 15 juin 2010 - 04:57 .

[Epantiras]

LiquidGrape wrote...

I'll be very disappointed if the endings to ME3 doesn't include complete failure and sacrificial victory.
Call me a drama queen (I am) but I tend to prefer lemons over lemonade.

Spoiler

I bet you'll like Dragon Age then

[LiquidGrape]

Epantiras wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

I'll be very disappointed if the endings to ME3 doesn't include complete failure and sacrificial victory.
Call me a drama queen (I am) but I tend to prefer lemons over lemonade.

Spoiler

I bet you'll like Dragon Age then

I heard about that...and how it seemingly jumps out of nowhere.
So I should elaborate; I will be very disappointed if the endings to ME3 doesn't include complete failure and sacrificial
victory - assuming that these aren't inescapable and contrived plot reversals.
There's nothing I loathe more in an RPG than decisions being made for you.

That said, I still want plenty of possible endings, including those above.
One of my Shepards I want to go out in a blaze of glory; another I want to settle down with Jack in a field of daffodil.
Or something.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 10 juin 2010 - 09:47 .

[StefanBW]

I should make a FemShep one day. I have been using the same male paragon soldier Sheploo forever now. But I can't be bothered playing through Mass Effect 1 again, not to mention twice because I want a level 60 character.

Not that ME1 is a bad game, but compared to ME2 I find it's gameplay a little outdated. Not to mention those hideous assignments missions/planets with the Mako and that ridiculous inventory system.

Yeh, I'll go hide now.

[Epantiras]

stefanbw wrote...

Not that ME1 is a bad game, but compared to ME2 I find it's gameplay a little outdated. Not to mention those hideous assignments missions/planets with the Mako and that ridiculous inventory system.

Yeh, I'll go hide now.

Don't worry, I'm not going to flame you because I totally agree with what you've written. ME1 is a completist nightmare because all the assignments take you away from the main plot.

*going to hide with stefanbw *

[LiquidGrape]

stefanbw wrote...

I should make a FemShep one day. I have been using the same male paragon soldier Sheploo forever now. But I can't be bothered playing through Mass Effect 1 again, not to mention twice because I want a level 60 character.

Not that ME1 is a bad game, but compared to ME2 I find it's gameplay a little outdated. Not to mention those hideous assignments missions/planets with the Mako and that ridiculous inventory system.

Yeh, I'll go hide now.

Agreed on the inventory. More or less agreed on the gameplay. Strongly disagree on the Mako.
I think the latter is part of what made ME1 a far more complete experience in my book. Like it or not; but those planetside missions really made the universe seem vast; and that's a quality I think ME2 sorely lacked.
Then there's also the fact that ME1 is a better told story with some genuinely ambiguous buildup.
ME2 on the other hand was all about exposition in a very suppositious and implausible way.

[Epantiras]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Agreed on the inventory. More or less agreed on the gameplay. Strongly disagree on the Mako.
I think the latter is part of what made ME1 a far more complete experience in my book. Like it or not; but those planetside missions really made the universe seem vast; and that's a quality I think ME2 sorely lacked.
Then there's also the fact that ME1 is a better told story with some genuinely ambiguous buildup.
ME2 on the other hand was all about exposition in a very suppositious and implausible way.

Yeah I missed the Mako based exploration, that's why I'm looking forward to the Overlord DLC
Talking about story, I admit that in ME2 players are... how do they say that? "Spoon-fed". However I really liked ME2 character developement, the main part of the story is about recruiting companions and dealing with their issues. I never bothered plosting in a ME1 character support thread.

Still...

I hope Bioware will learn from its mistakes (yes yes, we all have dreams) and make ME3 a sort of mix of the best features of both ME1 and ME2. Can we say that the Overlord alleged  "back to the roots" approach is a proof of that?

[LiquidGrape]

Epantiras wrote...
However I really liked ME2 character developement, the main part of the story is about recruiting companions and dealing with their issues. I never bothered plosting in a ME1 character support thread.

Now there I can agree. I think it was royce who referred to ME2 as Canterbury Tales in space. I like that, and I like certain individual characters' development.
Especially our favourite girl Jack, who is by far the most interesting persona in the series.
I just think it's a shame that they weren't more in-depth and better weaved together with the fundamental intrigue.
The reaper threat is a lousy plot device, but like it or not; it's still the basis of the this entire storyline. So when ME2 pretty much abandoned any adherence to it, I thought the narrative lost some gravitas.
Hobby-psychologist Shepard only stays fresh for so long.

I hope Bioware will learn from its mistakes (yes yes, we all have dreams) and make ME3 a sort of mix of the best features of both ME1 and ME2. Can we say that the Overlord alleged  "back to the roots" approach is a proof of that?

I hope Overlord will prove to balance the atmosphere and pacing of ME1 with the streamlined gameplay of ME2.
One can hope...

[LiquidGrape]

[Removed due to idiocy]

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 15 juin 2010 - 04:57 .

[The Uncanny]

I think Kelly is going to get her timbers shivered... :devil:

[Mondo47]

As long as my bouts of silliness continue to inspire our more artistic souls, I'm a happy little bunny

[royceclemens]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Now there I can agree. I think it was royce who referred to ME2 as Canterbury Tales in space. I like that, and I like certain individual characters' development.
Especially our favourite girl Jack, who is by far the most interesting persona in the series.
I just think it's a shame that they weren't more in-depth and better weaved together with the fundamental intrigue.
The reaper threat is a lousy plot device, but like it or not; it's still the basis of the this entire storyline. So when ME2 pretty much abandoned any adherence to it, I thought the narrative lost some gravitas.
Hobby-psychologist Shepard only stays fresh for so long.

Aye, it was me who made the Chaucer comparison.  ME2 utilizing this made the galaxy seem bigger.  All the things that seemed black and white in ME1 turned into a healthy shade of muddy gray, and thus, by the time we get back up to our knees in the Reaper threat in ME3, the stakes are raised.  One thing that annoyed me about ME1 was that we kept hearing about all these conflicts and walks of life but we never saw them.  We were fighting for second-hand ideals that we were told about in long, winding conversations.  "Yeah there are all these people out there doing all this stuff!  You'll never actually meet them but please, take our word for it." 

But with ME2, the iris is broadened.  We finally go into the Terminus Systems, which we were told all throughout ME1 was a no-no, and once we finally get there, we see through the eyes of your squaddies how deeply important the work Shepard is doing really is.  Jack in particular is important in this respect because you can hang the nexus of humanity's status in the galaxy and how human beings will turn on their own in the name of short-term gain right on her head.  Much like the rug in The Dude's apartment, Jack is needed for the human-centric themes of ME to "hang together."

Now, could the character development and the themes that springs from said development have been integrated in a tighter narriative that was more important to the overarching Reaper plot?  Maybe.  But by doing that, BioWare ran the risk of springing so many subplots that they (or we) couldn't keep track of them all.  The emotional connection might have been lost in a conventional space opera that valued speed and cohesion over everything else.  And the emotional connection is not only the thing that BioWare thrives on, but it's the thing that was, in my estimation, sorely lacking from ME1.  Stopping everything in ME2 in the name of character development, for all intents and purposes, was the prudent move to maintain BioWare's reputation and profile while adding weight to the eventual ME3, and by the time it's all said and done even the haters (or at least the open-minded ones who can admit they're wrong) will be thankful that ME2 did what it did.

I'm not arguing that what ME2 did was elegant; It's not.  But it was necessary.  It needed to happen.

Modifié par royceclemens, 10 juin 2010 - 05:24 .

[Jackal904]

LiquidGrape wrote...

So when ME2 pretty much abandoned any adherence to it, I thought the narrative lost some gravitas. Hobby-psychologist Shepard only stays fresh for so long.

Well in ME2 you are fighting to stop the Reapers backup plan after their initial one failed, and before they reach the milky way galaxy. And you destroyed their helpers (the collectors) who create all the new reapers and do a bunch of work for the reapers. So now they don't have a whole race of slaves available (like they've had every other time they've invaded the milky way). Sure they can get more, but at least they have to re-enslave a bunch of people instead of having them right off the bat. And now no new reapers can be produced until the reaper fleet gets there and collects a **** ton more people. In ME2 you're pretty much whittling down their efforts. So when the reapers arrive, all they'll have is themselves (which of course is still a lot), and you've stopped any additional reapers from being made anytime soon with the destruction of the collector base.

So yeah, I don't think the plot of ME2 diverged from the main story as much as people think. It just seems it does on the surface. Sure BioWare could have done something that seemed more relevant to the main plot, but oh well. Hopefully they'll take the feedback into consideration and in ME3 you'll truely feel like you are doing a lot to stop the reapers.

Epantiras wrote...

Can we say that the Overlord alleged  "back to the roots" approach is a proof of that?

Is that what they're planning to do with the Overlord DLC? I wonder what they mean by that. I think it just means they're combining vehicle sections with on-foot combat and some calmer moments with lots of dialogue, which is how most missions were in ME1.

Like in Feros, at first it's calm and you talk to all the people on Zu's Hope, then you do some on-foot combat, then a vehicle section, then some more dialogue with those exogeni guys hiding in that room, then some more mako, then more onfoot combat, mako again, dialogue, mako, on-foot combat, boss fight. And I like that much variety in the missions. In ME2 most missions are 98% on-foot combat and 2% little tiny bits of dialogue. I love the combat, I just wish the gameplay in the missions were more varied. Plus every main storyline mission in ME1 was pretty lengthy. The missions in ME2 are much shorter, but there are more. But I'd prefer fewer lengthy missions over many short ones.

Epantiras wrote...

and I'm also ready to sacrifice my MaleShep, hey I've created him just to romance Jack, he has no other purpose :-P

This made me chuckle quite a bit .

Modifié par Jackal904, 10 juin 2010 - 05:24 .

[Pacifien]

Mondo47 wrote...
As long as my bouts of silliness continue to inspire our more artistic souls, I'm a happy little bunny

Forum could always do with more silly.

[Collider]

I liked ME2's character focus. Kind of a "Canterbury Tales." I loved ME2 and it's characters. The only thing missing is the sense that this is really a team. For such a character focused game, there was little in the way of interparty dialog, etc.

[Epantiras]

Collider wrote...

I liked ME2's character focus. Kind of a "Canterbury Tales." I loved ME2 and it's characters. The only thing missing is the sense that this is really a team. For such a character focused game, there was little in the way of interparty dialog, etc.

That's true. Sometimes I wonder if they did that becaue there are too many squad members. That makes me sad :-( one of the things I like in "squad based" movies is seeing how characters interact with the others. Ok, usually characters in such movies are shallow and stereotyped and most of them will die before the end except the cool dude and the hot chick, but luckily ME2 is NOT a movie :innocent:


And there are not enough words in the English language to express how much I like that pirate Jack fan art of LG! <3

[Collider]

I hope they employ something like DA in terms of banter in ME3. That would be magnificent.

[Epantiras]

yorkj86 wrote...

Epantiras wrote...

And there are not enough words in the English language to express how much I like that pirate Jack fan art of LG! <3

So say it in Italian!

Che figataaaaa!!!

[Pacifien]

Can I like Italians but hate Ferrari? Is that allowed?